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London & St Lawrence

Closed-end funds and OEICs
Dod1010
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London & St Lawrence

#8830

Postby Dod1010 » November 25th, 2016, 8:20 am

This IT is a sort of fund of funds but has been a stalwart in the income stakes, which is my primary concern.

This morning they have announced that they are to undertake a strategic review with a view to the future of the company. This is not welcome news to me as it gives me an instant spread and a decent and rising income. I remember Luni used to have a trenchant comment or two from time to time but alas I do not suppose we can expect that at this time. The Ashfield family who control it are maybe thinking they put their money to more productive use and three out of the six directors are over 70. There is a younger Ashfield on board now and maybe he wants to make some changes. We will see.

Dod

Jon46
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Re: London & St Lawrence

#8847

Postby Jon46 » November 25th, 2016, 9:21 am

Hi Dod

It might very well lead to the sizeable discount being much reduced, so maybe it will lead to a good outcome for you if you end up having to switch.

Jon

PresumingEd
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Re: London & St Lawrence

#8880

Postby PresumingEd » November 25th, 2016, 10:41 am

I wish they would just leave it alone, it does its job in unspectacular but reliable fashion. These 'strategic reviews' introduce an unwelcome elememt of uncertainty (looking at you BSET/BIST!).

Kidman
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Re: London & St Lawrence

#8947

Postby Kidman » November 25th, 2016, 12:59 pm

I've been an LSLI shareholder since 1999 and find this an odd announcement in content and timing. They have only just released the annual report and the AGM is in just over a week's time.

It is certainly a bit of a quirky company and I question why all directors who have served over nine years aren't up for re-election at least, if not retirement.

The review could go many ways but if anyone is going to the AGM then perhaps they may be able to glean some insight so as to enlighten us.

In the meantime we can sit back and relax having read the last line of the Chairman's statement:- "We always aim to do our best for our shareholders."

Dod1010
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Re: London & St Lawrence

#9003

Postby Dod1010 » November 25th, 2016, 3:33 pm

Ashfield Senior, the father of The 76 year old Ashfield, only stepped down when he died at about 99 1/2 or something like that, so those 3 Directors over 70 are only in middle age!

Apart from a complete change of direction or a wish to bring in the discount I cannot see much benefit in doing anything and I too just want them to leave it alone. For me it just sits there quietly chugging away, throwing off dividends. That is all I want it to do.

Lootman
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Re: London & St Lawrence

#9055

Postby Lootman » November 25th, 2016, 6:23 pm

Dod1010 wrote:Ashfield Senior, the father of The 76 year old Ashfield, only stepped down when he died at about 99 1/2 or something like that, so those 3 Directors over 70 are only in middle age!

Apart from a complete change of direction or a wish to bring in the discount I cannot see much benefit in doing anything and I too just want them to leave it alone. For me it just sits there quietly chugging away, throwing off dividends. That is all I want it to do.

When you think about it, this is a very easy IT to run, because it is mostly invested in other ITs. It is effectively doing what many of us do on our own - manage a portfolio of ITs. It's not like they have to spend all week on the road visiting companies and keeping up with day-to-day developments. So it doesn't surprise me that it's run by some pretty old chaps. Getting paid 0.7% a year of AUM to pick other funds is a nice little earner.

I've looked at this a couple of times over the years but never saw what it gives me that I can't do for myself. It's a one-fund solution, certainly, which can be handy. And you can gain from the double discount (and also lose, of course) as well as the geared yield that gives you. But the over-riding factor for me would be the double layer of fees - something that affects all funds of funds with a few in-house exceptions.

But as a trade it might work out if you keep an eye on that high discount, given this news.

StanBowles
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Re: London & St Lawrence

#10156

Postby StanBowles » November 29th, 2016, 7:15 pm

I have about 10% of my portfolio invested in LSLI so keen to see this strategic review bringing good news for shareholders. I like LSLI because it does exactly what I want in terms of a decent and rising income. Early market reaction to the announcement seems reassuring with an upward movement in the share price and a narrowing of the discount.

sellinmay
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Re: London & St Lawrence

#12784

Postby sellinmay » December 6th, 2016, 10:01 pm

If you read this -

http://www.theaic.co.uk/aic/news/citywi ... gic-review

And look at the list of "Substantial Share Interest" at the foot of page 15 of the annual report

http://www.londonandstlawrence.com/wp-c ... l-2016.pdf

You will surmise why there is to be a "review".

Similar thing happened to Witan and others earlier this year. (Which is why discounts widened)

Dod1010
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Re: London & St Lawrence

#15673

Postby Dod1010 » December 16th, 2016, 12:07 pm

sellinmay's comments are enigmatic but explained on reading the AIC piece, thank you. I do not think that L & St L will want to do a Witan and buy back the Aviva stake itself as it would set the trust back quite a bit in terms of its size but that must surely be part of the review, the main part I would have thought. Can they find a friendly buyer or buyers for all or part? Interesting.

I hope they do because I like the set up, low key and they just get on with the job.

Kidman
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Re: London & St Lawrence

#27015

Postby Kidman » January 28th, 2017, 6:09 pm

The decisions have been made a couple of days ago:-
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/LSLI/13108262.html

Roll over into their own unit trust or take cash at near NAV.

Aviva, who own nearly 20% and who presumably brough on this situation, are taking cash.

GJHarney
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Re: London & St Lawrence

#27110

Postby GJHarney » January 29th, 2017, 10:49 am

So an IT is getting killed because a large shareholder (Aviva) wants out? Any views on the best course of action from here for us small holders?

Kidman
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Re: London & St Lawrence

#27147

Postby Kidman » January 29th, 2017, 12:20 pm

I suspect the liquidation of LSLI suits the Ashfield family. They get control of the unit trust management company, they roll over their holdings into a unit trust which allows then to avoid crystallising any CGT, and they get rid of public scrutiny and AGMs etc.

Aviva, presumably inherited this holding from Friends Life as Aviva have a policy of not holding investment trust shares. They could have drip-fed it into the market, very messy, tried to find a buyer, not easy, so they apporached the company and that gave LSLI the opportunity for a reconstruction which suits themselves.

I will take the cash and re-invest it by adding to some of my other IT holdings. An opportunity for a bit of tidying up!

Dod1010
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Re: London & St Lawrence

#27155

Postby Dod1010 » January 29th, 2017, 1:09 pm

I am very sorry to see this development and know little of the offered Practical Investment Trust so I will probably take the money and buy another trust or two. The discount is sitting around 3.6% at the moment so we are not going to see much of an uplift in the price we get. This may have ramifications for their holdings in that many will need to be liquidated presumably so there might be a softening of prices although their holdings are I suppose quite small in relation to the size of the trusts.

Quite a lot going on in the 'sleepy' world of ITs at the moment with what amounts to a reconstruction at Alliance as well in their buying out of Elliott.

Dod

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Re: London & St Lawrence

#29570

Postby Penguin » February 7th, 2017, 11:21 am

Disappointing development, if only because it was one of those stocks that one could recommend to relatives (when pressed, as one sometimes is), with a clear conscience

james51
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Re: London & St Lawrence

#40264

Postby james51 » March 21st, 2017, 6:58 pm

Yesterday, 20th March, LSLI put the 'Scheme Circular' on the homepage of their website. On page 15, they indicate the action shareholders should take especially if they want cash (which is not the default option). This has to be done by 1pm on 11 April 2017. I hold these shares in a nominee account and want to take the cash. So, I'm looking forward to a 'Corporate Action' in due course, but none has arrived yet.

James.

peter666
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Re: London & St Lawrence

#40395

Postby peter666 » March 22nd, 2017, 8:13 am

Also mentions a 9.5p Interim Dividend to be paid on 19th April

Peter

Dod1010
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Re: London & St Lawrence

#40430

Postby Dod1010 » March 22nd, 2017, 9:53 am

That is a chunky dividend presumably based on their accumulated reserves, although I have not looked.

I am not too keen on investing in Practical mainly because it is a unit trust, although I will need to take a closer look. Maybe just sell after the ex div date, but make sure I qualify for the dividend first. That will avoid any complication.

I do not really understand why they did not just buyout Aviva and they do not seem to have explained that.

Dod

GJHarney
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Re: London & St Lawrence

#41751

Postby GJHarney » March 27th, 2017, 10:03 pm

james51 wrote:Yesterday, 20th March, LSLI put the 'Scheme Circular' on the homepage of their website. On page 15, they indicate the action shareholders should take especially if they want cash (which is not the default option). This has to be done by 1pm on 11 April 2017. I hold these shares in a nominee account and want to take the cash. So, I'm looking forward to a 'Corporate Action' in due course, but none has arrived yet.

James.


I got two corporate voting mails through from Youinvest today on this. First proposing a winding up of the Trust (I voted against, although I assume the family has a majority shareholding so it's all a bit academic?), the second one proposing of that is agreed to have A and B shares in the new unit trust, with I think A shares being transferred shares from LSLI and B shares leading to a cash out option (I think, the wording on these things always makes me cross eyed). I'm assuming we will get options to sell after these votes have gone through (as I don't want an untested unit trust either)?

peter666
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Re: London & St Lawrence

#41783

Postby peter666 » March 28th, 2017, 6:56 am

GJHarney wrote:I'm assuming we will get options to sell after these votes have gone through (as I don't want an untested unit trust either)?


Latest time for receipt of Forms of Election or TTE Instructions 1:00 p.m. on 11 April 2017


I intend to elect for the cash option; shame that so far there's only been the notice to vote at the two (later) general meetings

peter666
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Re: London & St Lawrence

#41893

Postby peter666 » March 28th, 2017, 2:29 pm

The election form is now available on YouInvest

P


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