The Lemon Fool

I'm booking my car in for an oil change and one of the online options is something like 'move the wheels around'. Is this necessary or even a good idea?

Nemo wrote:I'm booking my car in for an oil change and one of the online options is something like 'move the wheels around'. Is this necessary or even a good idea?

It's not needed, but is a old idea.

Basically the tyres on the powered wheels will ware faster than the ones without power. By swapping the wheels around you can even out the tyre ware.

The effect is that you change the tyres less often but spend more when you do, because you need a full set. Arguably it can mean that you maintain better tread depth, but I question that argument.

It's also not possible on all cars. For example a number of BMW's have wider tyres on the powered wheels.

Nemo wrote:I'm booking my car in for an oil change and one of the online options is something like 'move the wheels around'. Is this necessary or even a good idea?

Back in the 1950s my first VW beetle rotated the tires at every service, including the spare, of course. I sold it at 42,000 miles with the original Michelin cross-ply tyres good for many more miles.

TJH

Bear in mind that many tyres sold today are only designed to rotate one way, so if they were to be switched they should only be switched front to back on the same side and not using the traditional five wheel swapping pattern - which involved the spare being brought into service too.

Watis

Thanks everyone - that's cleared it up nicely.

I've never taken up the option but just wondered. I recall it used to happen many years ago.

Watis wrote:.....and not using the traditional five wheel swapping pattern - which involved the spare being brought into service too.

Aaah, those were the days when we all had a full-sized spare wheel to rotate, instead of the usual slimline, which is only considered good for 50 miles.

Or indeed, any spare wheel at all. My Toyota came with just a spray foam can (which ruins the tyre if you ever have to use it), and I bought a slimline to go in the boot. It's nice to know it's there.

BJ

bungeejumper wrote:

Watis wrote:.....and not using the traditional five wheel swapping pattern - which involved the spare being brought into service too.

Aaah, those were the days when we all had a full-sized spare wheel to rotate, instead of the usual slimline, which is only considered good for 50 miles.

Or indeed, any spare wheel at all. My Toyota came with just a spray foam can (which ruins the tyre if you ever have to use it), and I bought a slimline to go in the boot. It's nice to know it's there.

BJ

My current Mercedes, now ten years old, came with slime and no spare. I think the Merc before that may have had a spacesaver, and cars before that had a full sized spare. My latest car, a VW iD3 has no spare, and no slime.

The trend has been downhill for about twenty years, in my experience. I believe this is just an illustration of "cutting of corners" in quality that society has been suffering generally .

Just the ramblings of an old man looking at the past with rose spectacles? I don't think so - there is an abundance of examples where the fairly recent past was truly better. And it's not just old men who think that - the younger generation think they've been robbed by our generation who enjoyed a better time of it.


Arb.

Arborbridge wrote:My latest car, a VW iD3 has no spare, and no slime.

So what are you supposed to do if you get a flat tyre? Call for help just to change a wheel?

I cannot imagine having a car that doesn't have a full-size spare, and a proper decent jack as well rather than the puny ones often supplied. But I guess that is just reason number 37 why I drive a twenty year old car.

That said I haven't rotated types for years.

Arborbridge wrote:The trend has been downhill for about twenty years, in my experience. I believe this is just an illustration of "cutting of corners" in quality that society has been suffering generally .

I thought it was because the weight reduction from fitting slimlines (or nothing) improved the cars' fuel efficiency and emission levels - albeit marginally!

The true point being that, in a world where road taxes etc were being levied according to emissions, it might help the manufacturer to boast a greener profile and hopefully to meet its environmental transition targets. For the poor motorist, though, it's a case of the tail wagging the dog.

BJ

I've had the current car since 2010, it came with a space saver and twice I have had cause to change wheels at the side of the road. Prior to that the only wheels I remember changing were for other people. I've owned cars on and off since 1980 something but my mileage before 2008 was insignificant and I did have periods without a car. I know I have previously mocked people for phoning AA and the like when they had flats but I gather that's not as unusual as I think it ought to be.

bungeejumper wrote:

Arborbridge wrote:The trend has been downhill for about twenty years, in my experience. I believe this is just an illustration of "cutting of corners" in quality that society has been suffering generally .

I thought it was because the weight reduction from fitting slimlines (or nothing) improved the cars' fuel efficiency and emission levels - albeit marginally!

The true point being that, in a world where road taxes etc were being levied according to emissions, it might help the manufacturer to boast a greener profile and hopefully to meet its environmental transition targets. For the poor motorist, though, it's a case of the tail wagging the dog.

Surely the weight of an extra wheel and tyre is trivial in relative terms?

In my youth I would keep a full-sized trolley jack in the boot of my car. It came in handy a few times. I never for a second thought or cared that I might have got 0.07% worse mileage as a result.

Lootman wrote:

Arborbridge wrote:My latest car, a VW iD3 has no spare, and no slime.

So what are you supposed to do if you get a flat tyre? Call for help just to change a wheel?

Unfortunately nobody can change your wheel, not even the experts. Unless the breakdown service decides to try its own slime, it's towaway time.

Sometimes I fix a puncture on my wife's car (I've been lucky with mine), but calling out the AA is a decision that depends on where I am (motorway hard shoulder?), what I'm wearing (best suit?), the weather, and the time I have available.

I do remember the breakdown mechanic's puzzlement when I got a puncture in my old Citroen Xantia. No matter how high you jacked the car, the wheel still wouldn't come out through the wheel arch, which was very low. Unless, that is, you pushed the button that magically raised the entire car on hydraulic stilts. It was almost worth the whole sorry episode just to see the look on his face.

BJ

Arborbridge wrote:My current Mercedes, now ten years old, came with slime and no spare. I think the Merc before that may have had a spacesaver, and cars before that had a full sized spare. My latest car, a VW iD3 has no spare, and no slime.

The trend has been downhill for about twenty years, in my experience. I believe this is just an illustration of "cutting of corners" in quality that society has been suffering generally .

Just the ramblings of an old man looking at the past with rose spectacles? I don't think so - there is an abundance of examples where the fairly recent past was truly better. And it's not just old men who think that - the younger generation think they've been robbed by our generation who enjoyed a better time of it.


Arb.

Did you miss the bit where the spare can't be a "true" spare? The tyre may rotate the wrong way if fitted on the wrong side. It may throw the tracking off on cars with wider rear wheels, unless you carry two spare wheels.

So, why do manufacturers design cars with wheels specified to perform best at their given function? Is the function of the front wheels the same as the rear? Do you think that fitting different wheels, front and back, saves pennies?

FWIW my current car has a spare, as did the car before that. It's been decades since I used a spare.

Ps, here is a video about the complexity of wheels and tyres for the BMW I3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAgX8EUG0jE&t=1s

bungeejumper wrote:

Arborbridge wrote:The trend has been downhill for about twenty years, in my experience. I believe this is just an illustration of "cutting of corners" in quality that society has been suffering generally .

I thought it was because the weight reduction from fitting slimlines (or nothing) improved the cars' fuel efficiency and emission levels - albeit marginally!

The true point being that, in a world where road taxes etc were being levied according to emissions, it might help the manufacturer to boast a greener profile and hopefully to meet its environmental transition targets. For the poor motorist, though, it's a case of the tail wagging the dog.

BJ

I've owned a Toyota Yaris. I was told by the dealer that the spacesaver spare was one of many steps taken to reduce the CO2 emissions to a value that meant that the VED was only £30 per annum.

Some of the others were: a very low idling speed, an eco system to switch the engine off while stationary, and a six speed gearbox.

Watis

Arborbridge wrote:

bungeejumper wrote:Aaah, those were the days when we all had a full-sized spare wheel to rotate, instead of the usual slimline, which is only considered good for 50 miles.

Or indeed, any spare wheel at all. My Toyota came with just a spray foam can (which ruins the tyre if you ever have to use it), and I bought a slimline to go in the boot. It's nice to know it's there.

BJ

My current Mercedes, now ten years old, came with slime and no spare. I think the Merc before that may have had a spacesaver, and cars before that had a full sized spare. My latest car, a VW iD3 has no spare, and no slime.

The trend has been downhill for about twenty years, in my experience. I believe this is just an illustration of "cutting of corners" in quality that society has been suffering generally .

Just the ramblings of an old man looking at the past with rose spectacles? I don't think so - there is an abundance of examples where the fairly recent past was truly better. And it's not just old men who think that - the younger generation think they've been robbed by our generation who enjoyed a better time of it.


Arb.

When was the last time you needed a spare, or slime? I'd rather live it the current world where I haven't had a flat for 20 years than the old world where I had a full sized spare and needed it every year or so, usually on the coldest, wettest day of the year, either before a date or a job interview. Next, you'll be complaining that nobody carries a spare quart of oil. Kids these days.

9873210 wrote:When was the last time you needed a spare, or slime? I'd rather live it the current world where I haven't had a flat for 20 years than the old world where I had a full sized spare and needed it every year or so, usually on the coldest, wettest day of the year, either before a date or a job interview. Next, you'll be complaining that nobody carries a spare quart of oil. Kids these days.

Please accept my sincere congratulations on living in a part of the world where punctures aren't a two-yearly experience. Where the potholes don't rip your rubber apart, and where the traffic islands in the middle of the road are lit at night so that you don't run into them in the dark and wreck your offside wheel, as happened recently to a neighbour.

I'll assume that you don't take your car abroad very often? My memory is still scarred by the recall of how the AA Europe breakdown cover told me that my shredded tyre in France was not, technically, a breakdown, so that it wouldn't be organising any roadside help. (And when I got onto their French wing to see about a tyre replacement, they told me that they couldn't help me because my Ford was "a foreign car". (Too right, it had been built in Belgium.....)

No, I'm sticking with the slimline wheel that I very sensibly decided to buy for long distances. And if you don't, then may your good luck remain with you always.

BJ

bungeejumper wrote:

9873210 wrote:When was the last time you needed a spare, or slime? I'd rather live it the current world where I haven't had a flat for 20 years than the old world where I had a full sized spare and needed it every year or so, usually on the coldest, wettest day of the year, either before a date or a job interview. Next, you'll be complaining that nobody carries a spare quart of oil. Kids these days.

Please accept my sincere congratulations on living in a part of the world where punctures aren't a two-yearly experience. Where the potholes don't rip your rubber apart, and where the traffic islands in the middle of the road are lit at night so that you don't run into them in the dark and wreck your offside wheel, as happened recently to a neighbour.

I'll assume that you don't take your car abroad very often? My memory is still scarred by the recall of how the AA Europe breakdown cover told me that my shredded tyre in France was not, technically, a breakdown, so that it wouldn't be organising any roadside help. (And when I got onto their French wing to see about a tyre replacement, they told me that they couldn't help me because my Ford was "a foreign car". (Too right, it had been built in Belgium.....)

No, I'm sticking with the slimline wheel that I very sensibly decided to buy for long distances. And if you don't, then may your good luck remain with you always.

BJ

His driving probably consists of a weekly 6-mile round-trip to his local Tesco's, which he only does in daylight and at 30 mph.

bungeejumper wrote:No, I'm sticking with the slimline wheel that I very sensibly decided to buy for long distances. And if you don't, then may your good luck remain with you always.

BJ

To be blunt, buy and drive for your requirements.
Long distances are not common for my car. Indeed when I change it, I'll be hiring a car for long distances.
I've ALWAYS hired a car when driving in France. Why not? The steering wheel is on the right side of the car for the roads.

As for people hitting road furniture. The local council have got fed up with replacing the traffic light near us. HOW do you hit a traffic light?

Oh and my car has headlights, which show the road. The speed that I drive depends upon driving conditions. IF your headlights don't show a traffic island in time, you are driving too fast. Thank goodness it wasn't a kid in a dark hoody!

9873210 wrote:When was the last time you needed a spare,

when we hit a huge pothole, obscured by a tight enough left bend, on a narrow Devon A road as a truck passed coming the other way ie the pothole was all but impossible to see in time, and when we did there was nowhere else to go. We were "only" doing 40mph as it is but it was sufficient to not only blow the tyre but literally smash the rim. Being a T5 we did at least have a spare available under the van. We had to limp at least half a mile to find a farm track to pull up to get off the road as staying where we were would be dangerous for starters, and at best a HUGE hindrance to traffic overall.

Devon CC denied any responsibility. Of course.

Changing a wheel on my car on the drive on a decent dry warm day, especially one of the heavy wide rear ones, is a major job for me nowadays even with my well-equipped garage to hand, so the prospect of attempting it at the roadside in poor conditions is a complete non starter. I only ever swap tyres seasonally to and from winter types, but FWIW I mark them with chalk so that I can rotate them annually where possible (too old to change my ways now). From choice I fit run-on-flat tyres which give me broadly the capabilities of a ‘thin’ spare or slime plus some other advantages and I subscribe to the manufacturer’s comprehensive rescue service. It’s really a question of what suits you individually and I don’t miss a full sized or any spare.