The Lemon Fool

stevensfo wrote:I've never heard of these stores, but, fun fact, if I ever see one, I'll avoid it!

Steve

Living out in the sticks, I shall know that if such stores ever reach here, they've had years of testing and debugging in the rich/important cities. With scrutiny from the press, many of whom will be keen to turn serious - or perhaps even imagined - problems into a scoop.

Bubblesofearth wrote:
What happens if you pop some booze into your bag?

BoE

The last thing you have to scan is the "download my shop" QR code, prior to paying. At that point it knows if you have restricted goods - booze, glue, knives, whatever, and alerts the staff ( i.e. a light start flashing ) to deal with you. I usually put the bags in a trolley, and leave booze unbagged until it's approved.

True joy is when the computer says "random check" and the staff have to re-scan whatever random sample ( it's a number of items in my experience, not any specific item ) they are told, to check your honesty.

genou wrote:

Bubblesofearth wrote:
What happens if you pop some booze into your bag?

BoE

The last thing you have to scan is the "download my shop" QR code, prior to paying. At that point it knows if you have restricted goods - booze, glue, knives, whatever, and alerts the staff ( i.e. a light start flashing ) to deal with you. I usually put the bags in a trolley, and leave booze unbagged until it's approved.

True joy is when the computer says "random check" and the staff have to re-scan whatever random sample ( it's a number of items in my experience, not any specific item ) they are told, to check your honesty.

I've been using the self-scan facility for nearly ten years so have been subject to a fair number of random checks.

I wonder how random they are though. I've found that I get a random check every eight to ten visits. So not truly random?

On the other hand the most recent check I've had was earlier this month. Prior to that I enjoyed a period of about six months of weekly visits without having any random checks at all!

Watis

genou wrote:

Bubblesofearth wrote:What happens if you pop some booze into your bag?

The last thing you have to scan is the "download my shop" QR code, prior to paying. At that point it knows if you have restricted goods - booze, glue, knives, whatever, and alerts the staff ( i.e. a light start flashing ) to deal with you. I usually put the bags in a trolley, and leave booze unbagged until it's approved.

True joy is when the computer says "random check" and the staff have to re-scan whatever random sample ( it's a number of items in my experience, not any specific item ) they are told, to check your honesty.

I'm sure I read somewhere that they use Yoti to do visual age verification, or in borderline cases, where your face isn't obviously one of an over 25 year old, to let you verify your age to the app by other means.

Not sure if it'd deal with a teenager "borrowing" dad's (age verified) phone to go buy some booze though....

https://www.yoti.com/business/age-verification/

Watis wrote:I wonder how random they are though. I've found that I get a random check every eight to ten visits. So not truly random?
Watis

Not truly random - clearly an algorithm, although if it were my design, there would be a base level of genuinely no reason random. Of the things I've noticed -

most shops I do at the Sainsbury near my MiL are small. Doing a considerably larger shop will probably trigger a check.

moving between the Tesco near to us and the Tesco next to MiL triggered a check on every switch for a while ( they were 400 miles apart ), but they have either fixed that one, or moving closer ( 200 miles ) has eliminated it ( or they have finally got a "this is where genou shops" entry in their data).

I have not noticed a "check after x shops" rule. But my shops would be far enough apart that I would probably not notice.

Watis wrote:I've been using the self-scan facility for nearly ten years so have been subject to a fair number of random checks.

I wonder how random they are though. I've found that I get a random check every eight to ten visits. So not truly random?

On the other hand the most recent check I've had was earlier this month. Prior to that I enjoyed a period of about six months of weekly visits without having any random checks at all!

I have never been random checked in hundreds/thousands of visits. So I struggle to believe it is random.

genou wrote:

Watis wrote:I wonder how random they are though. I've found that I get a random check every eight to ten visits. So not truly random?
Watis

Not truly random - clearly an algorithm, although if it were my design, there would be a base level of genuinely no reason random. Of the things I've noticed -

most shops I do at the Sainsbury near my MiL are small. Doing a considerably larger shop will probably trigger a check.

I fully expected checks during several pre-Christmas shops, each exceeding £100. Nothing.

The most recent check was on a tiddly shop of around £40 so my experience suggests that the value of the shop is not a factor (or not a major factor) in the algorithm.

For the record, this is Tesco.

Watis

Watis wrote:

genou wrote:Not truly random - clearly an algorithm, although if it were my design, there would be a base level of genuinely no reason random. Of the things I've noticed -

most shops I do at the Sainsbury near my MiL are small. Doing a considerably larger shop will probably trigger a check.

I fully expected checks during several pre-Christmas shops, each exceeding £100. Nothing.

The most recent check was on a tiddly shop of around £40 so my experience suggests that the value of the shop is not a factor (or not a major factor) in the algorithm.

For the record, this is Tesco.

Presumably this algorithm, whatever it is, will be skewed towards those factors that historically have correlated to fraud and theft.

In much the same way that store detectives learn from experience who to keep an eye on. Customs officials decide whose bags to search. And so on.

mc2fool wrote:I'm sure I read somewhere that they use Yoti to do visual age verification, or in borderline cases, where your face isn't obviously one of an over 25 year old, to let you verify your age to the app by other means.

I had to look up Yoti just now. Never heard of it, actually. I don't suppose I'm alone in my ignorance, because when I typed it into the LF Search box at the top of the page, there was only one other entry, from three years ago.

Ho hum, but then, you can count me as a living fossil. I don't carry my mobile with me very often, and I haven't ever felt the need to use it in a shop. Most of the time it's out of battery anyway.

BJ

bungeejumper wrote:

mc2fool wrote:I'm sure I read somewhere that they use Yoti to do visual age verification, or in borderline cases, where your face isn't obviously one of an over 25 year old, to let you verify your age to the app by other means.

I had to look up Yoti just now. Never heard of it, actually. I don't suppose I'm alone in my ignorance, because when I typed it into the LF Search box at the top of the page, there was only one other entry, from three years ago.

Ho hum, but then, you can count me as a living fossil. I don't carry my mobile with me very often, and I haven't ever felt the need to use it in a shop. Most of the time it's out of battery anyway.

BJ

Yeah, TBH I only first heard of Yoti fairly recently myself, when I was trying to connect to a certain, umm, adult, website and up popped not just the usual "you must be at least 18, click OK if you are" but a more insistent demand for proof thereof.

That lead to a Yoti page that gave me the choices shown in the link I posted up-thread, of which I opted for letting it look at my mug with the laptop camera, at which it declared that I was very definitely over 18 (ok, it didn't actually say very definitely!).

As such happens after you first become aware of something, I've noticed several references to Yoti since then, including in one of the stories about these cashier-less stores.

mc2fool wrote:

bungeejumper wrote:I had to look up Yoti just now. Never heard of it, actually. I don't suppose I'm alone in my ignorance, because when I typed it into the LF Search box at the top of the page, there was only one other entry, from three years ago.

Ho hum, but then, you can count me as a living fossil. I don't carry my mobile with me very often, and I haven't ever felt the need to use it in a shop. Most of the time it's out of battery anyway.

BJ

Yeah, TBH I only first heard of Yoti fairly recently myself, when I was trying to connect to a certain, umm, adult, website and up popped not just the usual "you must be at least 18, click OK if you are" but a more insistent demand for proof thereof.

That lead to a Yoti page that gave me the choices shown in the link I posted up-thread, of which I opted for letting it look at my mug with the laptop camera, at which it declared that I was very definitely over 18 (ok, it didn't actually say very definitely!).

As such happens after you first become aware of something, I've noticed several references to Yoti since then, including in one of the stories about these cashier-less stores.

Since the laptop webcams are not exactly cutting-edge technology, I wonder how easy it would be to fool it with a photo.

Sounds like a project for a rainy day. Me at 1 yr old, our dog, a badly-drawn sketch of a head....?

Steve

I have never been checked to date. But then, as I don't use self scan handsets or phones in shopping...

Mind you, practically every time I leave the self service tills area at Aldi the alarm goes off. But, nobody seems to be bothered by it. Then again, what can it be that triggers the alarm? All the shopping items have scanning codes on them but they can't be detected while in the shopping basket, what else is there?

XFool wrote:Mind you, practically every time I leave the self service tills area at Aldi the alarm goes off. But, nobody seems to be bothered by it.

Well, it happened again today in the chrome-plated cattle crush pen at our local Sainsburys. Around 20 people trapped in the self-service checkout area because the exit barrier had gone on strike and wouldn't scan anybody's receipts - so that it remained firmly closed and nobody could leave the store to go home. None of the staff seemed to be the slightest bit surprised.

What if there'd been a fire? It wouldn't have looked very good in the newspapers if 20 people had been fried alive by a software error that had locked the exit. Fortunately, two of us managed to wrestle the thing open, and we toddled out of the store with our confidence in the system somewhat shaken. Rage, rage against the machine!

BJ