So in terms of losses since 13th March
- MRC: 9.7%
SCP: 13.5%
THRG: 11.7%
Regards, Newroad
Thanks to Anonymous,bruncher,niord,gvonge,Shelford, for Donating to support the site
Newroad wrote:PS MRC was 197.6p then 178.4p at time of writing
So in terms of losses since 13th MarchMRC: 9.7%
SCP: 13.5%
THRG: 11.7%
Regards, Newroad
Arborbridge wrote:fisher wrote:
I own Mercantile (MRC) as my only UK mid and small cap trust. It has had a good reputation but has perhaps not done so well recently.
I also have had Black Rock smaller companies on my watch list for some time, mainly because of this article about the oldest investment trusts together with 3 decades of performance data:
https://www.itinvestor.co.uk/2023/04/returns-from-the-oldest-trusts-revisited/
Thanks for that link. What a great hunting ground!
Investment Trust Yield AIC Sector Launched 10 years 20 years 30 years
Henderson Far East Income 12.04% Asia Pacific Equity Income 1930 3.40% 9.00% 8.20%
abrdn Diversified I&G 7.32% Flexible Investment 1898 1.10% 4.90% 4.30%
Shires Income 6.73% UK Equity Income 1929 6.40% 10.00% 6.40%
TR Property 6.08% Property Securities 1905 8.00% 11.80% 12.60%
Merchants 5.76% UK Equity Income 1889 8.90% 9.70% 8.40%
City of London 5.39% UK Equity Income 1891 6.70% 9.20% 8.20%
Dunedin Income Growth 5.24% UK Equity Income 1873 6.30% 8.50% 7.40%
Murray International 5.05% Global Equity Income 1907 6.20% 12.10% 9.50%
Murray Income 4.86% UK Equity Income 1923 6.10% 8.90% 7.80%
JPMorgan European G&I 4.77% Europe 1929 10.50% 11.00% 9.50%
Law Debenture 4.22% UK Equity Income 1889 9.90% 11.70% 10.40%
Temple Bar 4.17% UK Equity Income 1926 4.70% 9.20% 8.90%
Henderson Smaller Companies 4.13% UK Smaller Companies 1887 9.20% 14.20% 7.30%
Edinburgh 4.12% UK Equity Income 1889 6.10% 9.90% 7.30%
Mercantile 4.02% UK All Companies 1884 7.90% 11.50% 10.40%
JPMorgan Global G&I 4.01% Global Equity Income 1887 13.70% 12.80% 9.90%
BlackRock Smaller Companies 3.49% UK Smaller Companies 1906 9.90% 15.60% 11.30%
Scottish American 3.06% Global Equity Income 1873 12.20% 11.60% 8.20%
Canadian General Investments 2.91% North America 1930 12.30% 11.90% 11.90%
Henderson European Focus 2.88% Europe 1947 10.60% 12.40% 11.60%
Witan 2.73% Global 1909 9.30% 10.10% 8.70%
3i Group 2.68% Private Equity 1945 22.80% 15.40% 11.0% *
Alliance Trust 2.55% Global 1888 11.20% 10.00% 8.70%
Bankers 2.50% Global 1888 9.50% 10.70% 9.30%
Finsbury Growth & Income 2.38% UK Equity Income 1926 9.50% 13.30% 10.70%
Brunner 2.26% Global 1927 11.20% 10.80% 8.70%
Global Smaller Companies 1.78% Global Smaller Companies 1889 8.10% 13.90% 9.70%
AVI Global 1.76% Global 1889 9.00% 11.40% 11.00%
Hansa Investment Company 1.76% Flexible Investment 1912 2.80% 8.90% 9.80%
F&C 1.60% Global 1868 11.90% 11.10% 9.20%
JPMorgan Japanese 1.41% Japan 1927 9.00% 8.30% 3.50%
JPMorgan American 0.96% North America 1881 14.50% 12.20% 10.30%
Baillie Gifford China Growth 0.84% China / Greater China 1907 2.30% 7.80% 3.90%
Scottish Mortgage 0.64% Global 1909 16.10% 15.30% 11.70%
Monks 0.35% Global 1929 11.50% 11.00% 9.70%
Arborbridge wrote:That makes the list come alive for income investors. I'm please to see several of my own investments looking fair enough in that 4-5%+ sweet spot.
Draw the line where you personally need it. Mrs Arb, for exmple, doesn't draw any income so her investments in FCIT and Monks still look reasonable choices, as they did when first bought.
Arb.
BullDog wrote:Arborbridge wrote:That makes the list come alive for income investors. I'm please to see several of my own investments looking fair enough in that 4-5%+ sweet spot.
Draw the line where you personally need it. Mrs Arb, for exmple, doesn't draw any income so her investments in FCIT and Monks still look reasonable choices, as they did when first bought.
Arb.
And of some interest (maybe?) the only one in the list yielding above the sometimes suggested 2x CTY yield danger zone? The dog otherwise known as HFEL.
Investment Trust Yield Discount / Premium AIC Sector Launched 10 years 20 years 30 years
Henderson Far East Income 12.04% -3.03% Asia Pacific Equity Income 1930 3.40% 9.00% 8.20%
abrdn Diversified I&G 7.32% -30.12% Flexible Investment 1898 1.10% 4.90% 4.30%
Shires Income 6.73% -9.30% UK Equity Income 1929 6.40% 10.00% 6.40%
TR Property 6.08% -10.35% Property Securities 1905 8.00% 11.80% 12.60%
Merchants 5.76% -1.65% UK Equity Income 1889 8.90% 9.70% 8.40%
City of London 5.39% -1.12% UK Equity Income 1891 6.70% 9.20% 8.20%
Dunedin Income Growth 5.24% -12.64% UK Equity Income 1873 6.30% 8.50% 7.40%
Murray International 5.05% -11.62% Global Equity Income 1907 6.20% 12.10% 9.50%
Murray Income 4.86% -9.67% UK Equity Income 1923 6.10% 8.90% 7.80%
JPMorgan European G&I 4.77% -11.79% Europe 1929 10.50% 11.00% 9.50%
Law Debenture 4.22% -3.83% UK Equity Income 1889 9.90% 11.70% 10.40%
Temple Bar 4.17% -6.28% UK Equity Income 1926 4.70% 9.20% 8.90%
Henderson Smaller Companies 4.13% -13.95% UK Smaller Companies 1887 9.20% 14.20% 7.30%
Edinburgh 4.12% -9.99% UK Equity Income 1889 6.10% 9.90% 7.30%
Mercantile 4.02% -14.96% UK All Companies 1884 7.90% 11.50% 10.40%
JPMorgan Global G&I 4.01% 1.46% Global Equity Income 1887 13.70% 12.80% 9.90%
BlackRock Smaller Companies 3.49% -14.81% UK Smaller Companies 1906 9.90% 15.60% 11.30%
Scottish American 3.06% -10.62% Global Equity Income 1873 12.20% 11.60% 8.20%
Canadian General Investments 2.91% -35.49% North America 1930 12.30% 11.90% 11.90%
Henderson European Focus 2.88% -12.81% Europe 1947 10.60% 12.40% 11.60%
Witan 2.73% -9.22% Global 1909 9.30% 10.10% 8.70%
3i Group 2.68% 8.12% Private Equity 1945 22.80% 15.40% 11.00%
Alliance Trust 2.55% -6.12% Global 1888 11.20% 10.00% 8.70%
Bankers 2.50% -12.80% Global 1888 9.50% 10.70% 9.30%
Finsbury Growth & Income 2.38% -5.61% UK Equity Income 1926 9.50% 13.30% 10.70%
Brunner 2.26% -14.69% Global 1927 11.20% 10.80% 8.70%
Global Smaller Companies 1.78% -15.19% Global Smaller Companies 1889 8.10% 13.90% 9.70%
AVI Global 1.76% -11.48% Global 1889 9.00% 11.40% 11.00%
Hansa Investment Company 1.76% -41.04% Flexible Investment 1912 2.80% 8.90% 9.80%
F&C 1.60% -10.49% Global 1868 11.90% 11.10% 9.20%
JPMorgan Japanese 1.41% -8.26% Japan 1927 9.00% 8.30% 3.50%
JPMorgan American 0.96% -2.48% North America 1881 14.50% 12.20% 10.30%
Baillie Gifford China Growth 0.84% -14.11% China / Greater China 1907 2.30% 7.80% 3.90%
Scottish Mortgage 0.64% -16.99% Global 1909 16.10% 15.30% 11.70%
Monks 0.35% -13.45% Global 1929 11.50% 11.00% 9.70%
Arborbridge wrote:
I'm please to see several of my own investments looking fair enough in that 4-5%+ sweet spot.
Investment Trust Yield Discount / Premium AIC Sector Launched 10 years 20 years 30 years
Merchants 5.76% -1.65% UK Equity Income 1889 8.90% 9.70% 8.40%
City of London 5.39% -1.12% UK Equity Income 1891 6.70% 9.20% 8.20%
Murray International 5.05% -11.62% Global Equity Income 1907 6.20% 12.10% 9.50%
JPMorgan European G&I 4.77% -11.79% Europe 1929 10.50% 11.00% 9.50%
Law Debenture 4.22% -3.83% UK Equity Income 1889 9.90% 11.70% 10.40%
Edinburgh 4.12% -9.99% UK Equity Income 1889 6.10% 9.90% 7.30%
JPMorgan Global G&I 4.01% 1.46% Global Equity Income 1887 13.70% 12.80% 9.90%
F&C 1.60% -10.49% Global 1868 11.90% 11.10% 9.20%
Itsallaguess wrote:Arborbridge wrote:
I'm please to see several of my own investments looking fair enough in that 4-5%+ sweet spot.
Me too Arb.
Here's a list of some of my holdings from that earlier table -Investment Trust Yield Discount / Premium AIC Sector Launched 10 years 20 years 30 years
Merchants 5.76% -1.65% UK Equity Income 1889 8.90% 9.70% 8.40%
City of London 5.39% -1.12% UK Equity Income 1891 6.70% 9.20% 8.20%
Murray International 5.05% -11.62% Global Equity Income 1907 6.20% 12.10% 9.50%
JPMorgan European G&I 4.77% -11.79% Europe 1929 10.50% 11.00% 9.50%
Law Debenture 4.22% -3.83% UK Equity Income 1889 9.90% 11.70% 10.40%
Edinburgh 4.12% -9.99% UK Equity Income 1889 6.10% 9.90% 7.30%
JPMorgan Global G&I 4.01% 1.46% Global Equity Income 1887 13.70% 12.80% 9.90%
F&C 1.60% -10.49% Global 1868 11.90% 11.10% 9.20%
I've split FCIT away from the top group as they're held as part of my long-term growth holdings, rather than what I consider to by my income portfolio, even though the 1.6% yield still ends up being bunched in with my other dividend income.
EDIN from the above list is a relatively small legacy holding of mine, where I've preferred to fund the other three UK-facing IT's over recent years, and I'm pleased to see that approach being justified in the above long-term figures.
Overall I'm happy to see the above list of geographically-spread holdings in the original table, and to see the long-term returns from them whilst they deliver that regular income for me, and your use of the term 'sweet-spot' chimes with my own long-held view that income-investing doesn't necessarily have to mean fishing in overly-volatile waters, and there's useful methods available for people who might prefer a much more 'hands off' income strategy than what often looks like a 'volatile plate-spinning' single-share UK-centric approach...
Cheers,
Itsallaguess
fisher wrote:
I would urge some caution at only looking at the 10, 20 and 30 year statistics from the first table in the article. A good performance in the last 10 years would also flatter the 20 and 30 year figures.
I prefer looking at discrete decade performance figures as given in the later table. This gives me more of an idea of what the consistency of performance has been across the decades in bull and bear markets.
I like to pick ITs that have good performance figures in each discrete period.
Investment Trust Yield Discount / Premium AIC Sector Launched 10 years 20 years 30 years 2013-2023 2003-2013 1993-2003
Henderson Far East Income 12.04% -3.03% Asia Pacific Equity Income 1930 3.40% 9.00% 8.20% 3.40% 14.90% 6.50%
abrdn Diversified I&G 7.32% -30.12% Flexible Investment 1898 1.10% 4.90% 4.30% 1.10% 8.80% 3.10%
Shires Income 6.73% -9.30% UK Equity Income 1929 6.40% 10.00% 6.40% 6.40% 13.70% -0.40%
TR Property 6.08% -10.35% Property Securities 1905 8.00% 11.80% 12.60% 8.00% 15.60% 14.30%
Merchants 5.76% -1.65% UK Equity Income 1889 8.90% 9.70% 8.40% 8.90% 10.60% 5.80%
City of London 5.39% -1.12% UK Equity Income 1891 6.70% 9.20% 8.20% 6.70% 11.60% 6.30%
Dunedin Income Growth 5.24% -12.64% UK Equity Income 1873 6.30% 8.50% 7.40% 6.30% 10.70% 5.30%
Murray International 5.05% -11.62% Global Equity Income 1907 6.20% 12.10% 9.50% 6.20% 18.40% 4.30%
Murray Income 4.86% -9.67% UK Equity Income 1923 6.10% 8.90% 7.80% 6.10% 11.70% 5.80%
JPMorgan European G&I 4.77% -11.79% Europe 1929 10.50% 11.00% 9.50% 10.50% 11.40% 6.70%
Law Debenture 4.22% -3.83% UK Equity Income 1889 9.90% 11.70% 10.40% 9.90% 13.60% 7.70%
Temple Bar 4.17% -6.28% UK Equity Income 1926 4.70% 9.20% 8.90% 4.70% 13.80% 8.50%
Henderson Smaller Companies 4.13% -13.95% UK Smaller Companies 1887 9.20% 14.20% 7.30% 9.20% 19.50% -5.30%
Edinburgh 4.12% -9.99% UK Equity Income 1889 6.10% 9.90% 7.30% 6.10% 13.80% 2.50%
Mercantile 4.02% -14.96% UK All Companies 1884 7.90% 11.50% 10.40% 7.90% 15.20% 8.10%
JPMorgan Global G&I 4.01% 1.46% Global Equity Income 1887 13.70% 12.80% 9.90% 13.70% 12.10% 4.40%
BlackRock Smaller Companies 3.49% -14.81% UK Smaller Companies 1906 9.90% 15.60% 11.30% 9.90% 21.60% 3.10%
Scottish American 3.06% -10.62% Global Equity Income 1873 12.20% 11.60% 8.20% 12.20% 10.90% 1.90%
Canadian General Investments 2.91% -35.49% North America 1930 12.30% 11.90% 11.90% 12.30% 11.40% 12.00%
Henderson European Focus 2.88% -12.81% Europe 1947 10.60% 12.40% 11.60% 10.60% 14.20% 10.00%
Witan 2.73% -9.22% Global 1909 9.30% 10.10% 8.70% 9.30% 11.00% 5.80%
3i Group 2.68% 8.12% Private Equity 1945 22.80% 15.40% 11.00% 22.80% 8.50% 0.8%
Alliance Trust 2.55% -6.12% Global 1888 11.20% 10.00% 8.70% 11.20% 8.90% 6.10%
Bankers 2.50% -12.80% Global 1888 9.50% 10.70% 9.30% 9.50% 11.90% 6.50%
Finsbury Growth & Income 2.38% -5.61% UK Equity Income 1926 9.50% 13.30% 10.70% 9.50% 17.20% 5.90%
Brunner 2.26% -14.69% Global 1927 11.20% 10.80% 8.70% 11.20% 10.40% 4.60%
Global Smaller Companies 1.78% -15.19% Global Smaller Companies 1889 8.10% 13.90% 9.70% 8.10% 19.90% 1.90%
AVI Global 1.76% -11.48% Global 1889 9.00% 11.40% 11.00% 9.00% 13.80% 10.30%
Hansa Investment Company 1.76% -41.04% Flexible Investment 1912 2.80% 8.90% 9.80% 2.80% 15.40% 11.50%
F&C 1.60% -10.49% Global 1868 11.90% 11.10% 9.20% 11.90% 10.30% 5.60%
JPMorgan Japanese 1.41% -8.26% Japan 1927 9.00% 8.30% 3.50% 9.00% 7.60% -5.50%
JPMorgan American 0.96% -2.48% North America 1881 14.50% 12.20% 10.30% 14.50% 10.00% 6.60%
Baillie Gifford China Growth 0.84% -14.11% China / Greater China 1907 2.30% 7.80% 3.90% 2.30% 13.50% -3.60%
Scottish Mortgage 0.64% -16.99% Global 1909 16.10% 15.30% 11.70% 16.10% 14.50% 4.90%
Monks 0.35% -13.45% Global 1929 11.50% 11.00% 9.70% 11.50% 10.60% 7.00%
Arborbridge wrote:
Is there any way we could compile a similar table which includes all the younger ITs too.
It is slightly worrying that this brilliant exercise might be overlooking perfectly good candidates on the grounds that they are "only" 40 or 50 years old.
Itsallaguess wrote:Arborbridge wrote:
Is there any way we could compile a similar table which includes all the younger ITs too.
It is slightly worrying that this brilliant exercise might be overlooking perfectly good candidates on the grounds that they are "only" 40 or 50 years old.
It'll really depend on whether any relevant data is available for a broader set of IT's.
The AIC site has a comprehensive list of IT's, but their discrete performance figures on a per-IT basis is limited to individual 12-month performance over the past 5 years, and with their broader non-discrete performance figures being available only for that past 1, 3, 5, and 10 years, as we can see on the following sample AIC page for Merchants -
https://www.theaic.co.uk/companydata/merchants-trust/performance
So going beyond those time-scales into the much longer periods listed in the earlier tables will be limited to finding some relevant data elsewhere, which I'm currently unaware of.
If someone can find that wider performance data-set for a broader set of IT's, then we'll be able to compile it into a similar table...
Cheers,
Itsallaguess
BullDog wrote:Itsallaguess wrote:
It'll really depend on whether any relevant data is available for a broader set of IT's.
The AIC site has a comprehensive list of IT's, but their discrete performance figures on a per-IT basis is limited to individual 12-month performance over the past 5 years, and with their broader non-discrete performance figures being available only for that past 1, 3, 5, and 10 years, as we can see on the following sample AIC page for Merchants -
https://www.theaic.co.uk/companydata/merchants-trust/performance
So going beyond those time-scales into the much longer periods listed in the earlier tables will be limited to finding some relevant data elsewhere, which I'm currently unaware of.
8
If someone can find that wider performance data-set for a broader set of IT's, then we'll be able to compile it into a similar table...
Cheers,
Itsallaguess
Without the considerable work of looking at each IT in turn, I cannot think of anywhere that data might be readily available? Interesting as it would be, I doubt anyone can come up with a fairly easy way of collecting all that information from so many companies?
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