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Visit from Baliffs

Help and discussions for strategies to get out of debt
Gremlin682001
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Visit from Baliffs

#54920

Postby Gremlin682001 » May 19th, 2017, 12:04 pm

Dear All

I`ve found you via a friend who recommended me to pop along to fool.co.uk and the bulletin boards there and obviously as they`ve closed saw that some of the boards had migrated here.
I`m not at all sure whether this is the right place to pose this question for you knowledgeable folks to peruse and perhaps offer some guidance on but here goes.

I had a visit from a Baliff demanding a figure of £9k plus in the late afternoon, I`ve had no demands from a court or any paperwork whatsoever from anybody regarding any kind of claim, the Baliff was polite enough and advised that they had been chasing me at my previous address which we moved from 12 months ago, I advised him that although the paperwork for the defendant showed my first and last names it was definitely not me as it was for a director of a company which I`ve never been and nor have I had any contact with in any capacity, there was enough doubt for the Baliff not to continue with the removal of property and he advised that he would leave, write a report but would be back in due course and recommended strongly that I contact the High court on Monday, this was a Saturday afternoon and I was due to be on a nightshift and I was just off to bed.

My stress level had started to go through the roof by this time so any sleep was out of the question, I then started to try and make sense of the situation, I did a web search on companies house for the company details that I was supposedly a director of and to my surprise I find my first and last name with my date of birth as details for the Director but the nationality was marked as Australian, which would be nice but isn`t me.

I spent most of the next few days trying to call the high court and get to the bottom of the writ and was advised when I finally got through to somebody that I should apply for a N244 form for a stay of execution. All this time my wife and I`s stress levels had skyrocketed and as my wife is currently pregnant I packed her off to her family so that she wouldn`t have to deal with it and to keep her stress levels down to a minimum.
On the Monday morning, I submitted the N244 form to the court and then set about trying to speak to somebody in the company that had been listed as bringing the claim against me, I did manage to speak to somebody in the morning who said that she could see the details on her system and she would email the person concerned and that hopefully someone would call me back later.

I also received my upto date credit report that morning and saw that there was a soft search on my report that I had not sanctioned, I emailed the company concerned who I`ve discovered to be a tracing company, who to their credit responded fairly quickly and confirmed that they had been asked to search my credit file on behalf of their client.

I received a phone call from the company that had initiated the high court claim and they said that their tracing company had made an error and given them my details in error, I thanked them and asked them to put that in writing to me and there was a point blank refusal to confirm the error in writing, the lady on the other end of the phone became argumentive and , I`m not proud to say was reciprocated by me, I explained that I had been left out of pocket by their error, 6 days of completely stressed out, phone calls, letters, car parking charges and having to take a shift off work due to me working in a safety critical role in civil aviation.
I did finally receive a one sentence email from the high court enforcement agents who confirmed that there would be no action taken against me but no apology for the situation.

My question for you all is this, can I get my losses reimbursed ? can I claim for the compensation for the 6 days of our lives being put on hold and how do we ensure that this kind of error is reported to the right people so that it doesn`t (a) happen to somebody else and (b) prevent this kind of heavy handed brutality from a collection agency and associated companies?

Many thanks for reading

Kind Regards

David

UncleEbenezer
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Re: Visit from Baliffs

#54981

Postby UncleEbenezer » May 19th, 2017, 3:45 pm

Intriguing title line, hints at a good story, and you don't disappoint. 8-)

I have no relevant knowledge, and anything I say is pure speculation. Maybe it'll prompt someone to correct me if I'm too far wrong.

I think you just have to put it behind you. As a rule, the forces of law enforcement have enormous licence to blight our lives, and there's rarely any redress unless you can prove that someone acted maliciously or perhaps negligently. Your story is by no means out of the ordinary, and your inconvenience pretty minor compared to many victims. From your account, there seems to be no question of malice (except on the part of whoever impersonated you), and while negligence is a possibility, I wouldn't like to try and prove it, unless perhaps I had a tame private detective or investigative journalist.

Gremlin682001
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Re: Visit from Baliffs

#54993

Postby Gremlin682001 » May 19th, 2017, 4:27 pm

Hi UncleEbenezer

Many thanks for taking the time to reply, Indeed I`m certain that there are some utter horror stories out there.
I`m sure the forces of law and order have enormous power to annoy and hinder but I really really want to make sure that they get a reminder that they need to do things properly and not just jump to a conclusion or threaten without having to have gone through the full proceedure that they should go through.
Cheers David

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Re: Visit from Baliffs

#55000

Postby midnightcatprowl » May 19th, 2017, 5:11 pm

Have you a local newspaper? Contact them and see if they will take up your story.

Contact your local Councillor and your MP.

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Re: Visit from Baliffs

#55015

Postby Lootman » May 19th, 2017, 7:34 pm

Gremlin682001 wrote:I had a visit from a Baliff demanding a figure of £9k plus in the late afternoon, I`ve had no demands from a court or any paperwork whatsoever from anybody regarding any kind of claim, the Baliff was polite enough and advised that they had been chasing me at my previous address which we moved from 12 months ago

English law in regard of debts is, frankly, an ass.

Firstly it is ridiculous that any claim for a debt, whether it's really your debt or not, should be prosecuted like this unless it is known for a fact that you are aware of the claim against you. In the US, this typically takes for form of a personal service - a process server physically serves you the paperwork, having first correctly identified and located you. So there can be no doubt about your awareness.

But here it seems that a claim can be processed for a long period of time, whilst the alleged debtor has absolutely no idea about it, which appears to be what happened here. As a result, the creditor or claimant has no idea if they are pursuing the right person, whilst the debtor knows nothing at all. This is ridiculous.

And it's amazing how long this can go on. About a decade ago I sold my house and moved. The buyer begged me to leave the phone service connected so that he would have internet service immediately. I said I would do that if he promptly switched over the service and paid any residual bill. Well he didn't and, as a result, a debt to BT was outstanding, in my name.

But of course i knew nothing about it. Nothing happened for 7 years and then suddenly I started getting a flurry of letters from a debt collection service. Luckily this was not at my new home but at a post office box I use. (It's not a bad idea to use only a POB for all purposes - the best way to stop a creditor or bailiff coming to your home is for them to not know where you live). Funnily enough, the last letter said that the matter was being dropped!

The other weird thing about English law in regard of debts is the fact that bailiffs exist at all. There is no such entity in the US and, if there was, they would routinely be shot by armed homeowners. The US does have bounty hunters and bail bondsmen, of course, but that's another matter. Anyway, bailiffs are a barbaric relic and should be outlawed. If you think I owe you, take me to court and make your case, having first made 100% sure i know about it and can defend myself.

Gremlin682001
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Re: Visit from Baliffs

#55016

Postby Gremlin682001 » May 19th, 2017, 7:42 pm

midnightcatprowl wrote:Have you a local newspaper? Contact them and see if they will take up your story.

Contact your local Councillor and your MP.


Hi Midnidnightcatprowl

I`m sorely tempted to go down that route but thought I`d see where I stood first and if anybody had encountered this kind of thing before

Cheers

David

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Re: Visit from Baliffs

#55017

Postby Gremlin682001 » May 19th, 2017, 7:47 pm

Hi Lootman

Many thanks for your reply, I wasn`t aware of that information about the US and I couldn`t agree more about your sentiments, I`m kind of disappointed in a way that I haven`t been able to defend this frivolous charge in court but I`m still not of a mind to let any of these companies get away with it though

midnightcatprowl
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Re: Visit from Baliffs

#55019

Postby midnightcatprowl » May 19th, 2017, 7:58 pm

Have you seen this post from Tonyreptiles?

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5311

It may beef up your determination!

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Re: Visit from Baliffs

#55020

Postby baldchap » May 19th, 2017, 8:05 pm

Are the company who made the 'error' part of any regulatory body or trade organisation. Or perhaps the Financial Ombudsman would be of use to you?

From personal experience MP's are useless unless you tick certain boxes. Not sure you would get a reply anyway during the run up to the election.

Gremlin682001
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Re: Visit from Baliffs

#55021

Postby Gremlin682001 » May 19th, 2017, 8:14 pm

baldchap wrote:Are the company who made the 'error' part of any regulatory body or trade organisation. Or perhaps the Financial Ombudsman would be of use to you?

From personal experience MP's are useless unless you tick certain boxes. Not sure you would get a reply anyway during the run up to the election.


Hi Baldchap

They are regulated by the FSA and I`m going to go down that route if they don`t come to some sense and make things right, Like Tonyreptiles I`m also that kind of bloodyminded dig my heels in and fight especially if I`m right

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Re: Visit from Baliffs

#55056

Postby baldchap » May 20th, 2017, 8:40 am

Gremlin682001 wrote:They are regulated by the FSA and I`m going to go down that route if they don`t come to some sense and make things right, Like Tonyreptiles I`m also that kind of bloodyminded dig my heels in and fight especially if I`m right


I look forward to a positive outcome Gremlin. Maybe even this decade. :)

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Re: Visit from Baliffs

#55637

Postby Maroochydore » May 23rd, 2017, 6:05 pm

Lootman wrote:
Gremlin682001 wrote: Anyway, bailiffs are a barbaric relic and should be outlawed. If you think I owe you, take me to court and make your case, having first made 100% sure i know about it and can defend myself.


I would disagree. Having taken you to court and gained judgment, you decide to ignore the court and not pay me what the Court says I am due. What do I, a little 80 year old lady, then do?

I apply to the High Court for a warrant of execution and hopefully two burly 'enforcement agents' or bailiffs as they are known, come and ask you for my money. if you don't give it to them they can seize goods to settle the debt. Unfortunately they can't break both your legs but can do a lot. See Gov UK site: your-rights-bailiffs/what-you-can-do-when-a-bailiff-visits (sorry I'm not allowed to post links for some reason).

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Re: Visit from Baliffs

#55653

Postby Lootman » May 23rd, 2017, 7:58 pm

Maroochydore wrote:
Lootman wrote:
Gremlin682001 wrote: Anyway, bailiffs are a barbaric relic and should be outlawed. If you think I owe you, take me to court and make your case, having first made 100% sure i know about it and can defend myself.

I would disagree. Having taken you to court and gained judgment, you decide to ignore the court and not pay me what the Court says I am due. What do I, a little 80 year old lady, then do?

I apply to the High Court for a warrant of execution and hopefully two burly 'enforcement agents' or bailiffs as they are known, come and ask you for my money. if you don't give it to them they can seize goods to settle the debt. Unfortunately they can't break both your legs but can do a lot. See Gov UK site: your-rights-bailiffs/what-you-can-do-when-a-bailiff-visits (sorry I'm not allowed to post links for some reason).

You probably want to see a return of debtors' prisons as well? Or maybe chopping off the hands of anyone with the temerity to stiff you?

I do not like to see violence, threats and intimidation used in any stage of a purely civil matter. With a court judgement you can place a charge or lien on my house or other asset, you can attach or garnish my sources of income, and you can apply to the court for other powers of collection, including interrogation of my assets and income under oath.

But if you send two big men around to my house, I might just send 4 big men around to yours, and things could quickly become very nasty. Once you cross that line, you lose control and perhaps more.

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Re: Visit from Baliffs

#55664

Postby Maroochydore » May 23rd, 2017, 8:48 pm

Lootman wrote:
Maroochydore wrote:
Lootman wrote:


You probably want to see a return of debtors' prisons as well? Or maybe chopping off the hands of anyone with the temerity to stiff you?

I do not like to see violence, threats and intimidation used in any stage of a purely civil matter. With a court judgement you can place a charge or lien on my house or other asset, you can attach or garnish my sources of income, and you can apply to the court for other powers of collection, including interrogation of my assets and income under oath.

But if you send two big men around to my house, I might just send 4 big men around to yours, and things could quickly become very nasty. Once you cross that line, you lose control and perhaps more.


You obviously don't share my sense of humour. In simple terms, if I sue you and you don't comply with the Court's order then Baliffs acting on behalf of the High Court will seek to obtain either the money owed or are legally entitled to seize goods (with certain provisos) to satisfy the debt.

They are not entitled to use violence, threats of violence or intimidation but are usually burly to avoid being on the receiving end of violence from people who give scant regard to the Courts. They act as agents of the High Court and under the Tribunals Courts Enforcement Act, Schedule 12, paragraph 68, it is an offence to obstruct an Enforcement Agent, or to interfere with goods subject to control.

These offences carry a custodial sentence as well as a fine.

Don't confuse baliffs for debt collectors, they are totally different and baliffs have legal powers that debt collectors don't.

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Re: Visit from Baliffs

#55675

Postby Gremlin682001 » May 23rd, 2017, 10:05 pm

Hi All

Many thanks for your replies, very informative indeed and I thank you for your time.
To keep you updated,
I wrote to the company concerned and set out everything that was wrong with their sending of the Baliffs round and I told them in no uncertain terms that I was deeply unimpressed about the whole situation and told them I would e taking the matter further in order to clear my name.
I received an email from the Baliffs/High court enforcement officers informing me that there had indeed been a mistake and my details had been given to them in error and they have confirmed that there will be no further action taken against me but no hint of an apology anywhere.

Good news that that has been received, Now I guess begins the real fight, and I will keep you updated with how it progresses

Kind Regrds

David

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Re: Visit from Baliffs

#55676

Postby Lootman » May 23rd, 2017, 10:10 pm

Maroochydore wrote:You obviously don't share my sense of humour. In simple terms, if I sue you and you don't comply with the Court's order then Baliffs acting on behalf of the High Court will seek to obtain either the money owed or are legally entitled to seize goods (with certain provisos) to satisfy the debt.

They are not entitled to use violence, threats of violence or intimidation but are usually burly to avoid being on the receiving end of violence from people who give scant regard to the Courts. They act as agents of the High Court and under the Tribunals Courts Enforcement Act, Schedule 12, paragraph 68, it is an offence to obstruct an Enforcement Agent, or to interfere with goods subject to control.

These offences carry a custodial sentence as well as a fine.

I am aware of the process and the powers. I was simply stating that I find it to be barbaric, invasive and potentially risky for all parties concerned. If the US can manage without bailiffs (where they would routinely be shot) then why can't the UK?

It's naive to think that such a process isn't intimidating and threatening, regardless of the intent of the law governing their behaviour. It is a constant source of amazement to me that not more bailiffs are injured or killed by a homeowner who discovers somebody in their home taking stuff. I suspect they mostly get away with it because most people don't have firearms in their home in this country.

There are plenty of options for a creditor to collect on a debt if they have a judgement. In fact you'd have to be a fairly incompetent creditor to not simply attach wages or put a charge on an asset. Why take a bunch of crappy household goods when you can get cash instead? If I had wind of bailiffs coming to my house, and they have to give notice, then they would not find much of value - it would all be in a storage unit or with a friend.

I suspect tenants simply move if this is imminent. In any event, the use of bailiffs is not common, considering how much debt there is out there. That tells me that it is not an efficient or cost-effective means of collection.

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Re: Visit from Baliffs

#55684

Postby staffordian » May 23rd, 2017, 10:37 pm

Gremlin682001 wrote:Hi All

Many thanks for your replies, very informative indeed and I thank you for your time.
To keep you updated,
I wrote to the company concerned and set out everything that was wrong with their sending of the Baliffs round and I told them in no uncertain terms that I was deeply unimpressed about the whole situation and told them I would e taking the matter further in order to clear my name.
I received an email from the Baliffs/High court enforcement officers informing me that there had indeed been a mistake and my details had been given to them in error and they have confirmed that there will be no further action taken against me but no hint of an apology anywhere.

Good news that that has been received, Now I guess begins the real fight, and I will keep you updated with how it progresses

Kind Regrds

David


Good to hear that common sense has prevailed.

Good luck with your pursuit of justice!

Staffordian

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Re: Visit from Baliffs

#55753

Postby Maroochydore » May 24th, 2017, 12:56 pm

Lootman wrote:
Maroochydore wrote:It is a constant source of amazement to me that not more bailiffs are injured or killed by a homeowner who discovers somebody in their home taking stuff. I suspect they mostly get away with it because most people don't have firearms in their home in this country.


Sorry, I don't want to drag this on but there is an important misconception here and you should be aware of your rights. You should never discover a baliff in your house. If you left a door or window open they can gain entry (as can a burglar) or you may have invited them in once (not necessarily at the time you discovered them) and they retain the right to entry. Never invite them in, old trick is asking to use the loo before they go away, don't fall for it. Apart from this they have no right of forced entry to your home.

They can break into commercial premises however.

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Re: Visit from Baliffs

#55773

Postby Lootman » May 24th, 2017, 2:37 pm

Maroochydore wrote:
Lootman wrote:
Maroochydore wrote:It is a constant source of amazement to me that not more bailiffs are injured or killed by a homeowner who discovers somebody in their home taking stuff. I suspect they mostly get away with it because most people don't have firearms in their home in this country.

Sorry, I don't want to drag this on but there is an important misconception here and you should be aware of your rights. You should never discover a baliff in your house. If you left a door or window open they can gain entry (as can a burglar) or you may have invited them in once (not necessarily at the time you discovered them) and they retain the right to entry. Never invite them in, old trick is asking to use the loo before they go away, don't fall for it. Apart from this they have no right of forced entry to your home.

They can break into commercial premises however.

You say that one should never discover a bailiff in your house, but then give two examples of exactly how that could happen. And therein lies the problem and the risk. If I hear a sound in another room, go in there and find a stranger carrying my TV out of the room, I'm going to take assertive action first, with whatever weapon is at my disposal, rather than initiate a polite inquiry as to the legal basis of his actions. The situation will 100% appear to me to be an attempted burglary and home invasion, with all the consequent risks to my life and limb.

And therein lies the risk to any bailiff who enters a home without the explicit and affirmative permission of the resident, regardless of whatever the law says he can or cannot do. In other words, it is a flawed and risky process. But to the other point, sure, never invite them in and never let them in. I can't imagine letting anyone I didn't know into my home for a pee, let alone anything else.

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Re: Visit from Baliffs

#55821

Postby XFool » May 24th, 2017, 7:37 pm

Lootman wrote:
Maroochydore wrote:
Lootman wrote:I would disagree. Having taken you to court and gained judgment, you decide to ignore the court and not pay me what the Court says I am due. What do I, a little 80 year old lady, then do?

I apply to the High Court for a warrant of execution and hopefully two burly 'enforcement agents' or bailiffs as they are known, come and ask you for my money. if you don't give it to them they can seize goods to settle the debt. Unfortunately they can't break both your legs but can do a lot. See Gov UK site: your-rights-bailiffs/what-you-can-do-when-a-bailiff-visits (sorry I'm not allowed to post links for some reason).

You probably want to see a return of debtors' prisons as well? Or maybe chopping off the hands of anyone with the temerity to stiff you?

I do not like to see violence, threats and intimidation used in any stage of a purely civil matter. With a court judgement you can place a charge or lien on my house or other asset, you can attach or garnish my sources of income, and you can apply to the court for other powers of collection, including interrogation of my assets and income under oath.

But if you send two big men around to my house, I might just send 4 big men around to yours, and things could quickly become very nasty. Once you cross that line, you lose control and perhaps more.

But surely the point being made is that the bailiffs are executing an order based on the court ruling! If you (illegally) send "4 big men around" to anybody's house you can expect a visit from the police.


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