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Crypto Currency board name

Constructive suggestions only please.
GoSeigen
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Crypto Currency board name

#473369

Postby GoSeigen » January 15th, 2022, 6:55 pm

Apparently they are not cryptocurrencies any more they are cryptoshares. Could we change the board name to reflect this?

GS

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Re: Crypto Currency board name

#473382

Postby Clariman » January 15th, 2022, 8:07 pm

If that is the standard name happy to change it. Anyone else want to agree or disagree?

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Re: Crypto Currency board name

#473384

Postby Lootman » January 15th, 2022, 8:13 pm

Clariman wrote:If that is the standard name happy to change it. Anyone else want to agree or disagree?

I can't say that I feel strongly either way, but "crypto currency" is still the term most people use (rightly or wrongly). Until that changes, it might confuse some people if a different term is used.

Alternatively you could finesse the issue by just calling the board "Crypto". or "Crypto Investing".

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Re: Crypto Currency board name

#473385

Postby kempiejon » January 15th, 2022, 8:13 pm

Clariman wrote:If that is the standard name happy to change it. Anyone else want to agree or disagree?


No thanks but thanks for asking.

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Re: Crypto Currency board name

#473406

Postby JohnB » January 15th, 2022, 11:27 pm

Computer security people hate that the term Crypto is being stolen from them.

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Re: Crypto Currency board name

#473407

Postby Lanark » January 15th, 2022, 11:39 pm

I don't think any of that stuff belongs on an investment board, it is just gambling.

GoSeigen
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Re: Crypto Currency board name

#473414

Postby GoSeigen » January 16th, 2022, 6:06 am

Clariman wrote:If that is the standard name happy to change it. Anyone else want to agree or disagree?


:-D

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Re: Crypto Currency board name

#476535

Postby murraypaul » January 27th, 2022, 12:14 pm

Clariman wrote:If that is the standard name happy to change it. Anyone else want to agree or disagree?


To me cryptoshares would suggest either shares in crypto-related companies, or more likely some new sort of blockchain-based exchange to rival the LSE and NYSE.

Cryptocurrencies suggests Bitcoin, Ethereum and the like.

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Re: Crypto Currency board name

#476550

Postby Hallucigenia » January 27th, 2022, 1:10 pm

JohnB wrote:Computer security people hate that the term Crypto is being stolen from them.


It never belonged to them, in the same way it doesn't belong to crypto-Christianity, cryptozoology or anything else. Take it up with the ancient Greeks if you must. But first the zoologists would like to take back the word "mouse", locksmiths would like to take back the word "key" etc etc.

You have to accept reality, crypto is now the common name for this stuff. But I can see the argument for taking it beyond "currency" and making it more general to include NFTs and all the other things in that world. So some ideas :

Crypto
Crypto Trading (pacifies some of the hard "investing" types here, and hard to argue it's investing in one sense when there's no yield or prospect of yield)
The Crypt
Crypto Vault
Blockchain Gang

GoSeigen
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Re: Crypto Currency board name

#476554

Postby GoSeigen » January 27th, 2022, 1:21 pm

murraypaul wrote:
Clariman wrote:If that is the standard name happy to change it. Anyone else want to agree or disagree?


To me cryptoshares would suggest either shares in crypto-related companies, or more likely some new sort of blockchain-based exchange to rival the LSE and NYSE.

Cryptocurrencies suggests Bitcoin, Ethereum and the like.


Did you read the link in the OP? There was a rationale of sorts there. Personally I'd call them cryptoscams, but the bro's have a different rationale for investing in them each iteration of their price rise. First they were supposed to be the new money, later they were gold, now it seems they are shares, next year who knows? Cryptoandrex perhaps?


GS

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Re: Crypto Currency board name

#476661

Postby stooz » January 27th, 2022, 7:38 pm

Lanark wrote:I don't think any of that stuff belongs on an investment board, it is just gambling.


I have friends investing and exchanging currencies to the tune of £100k
One friend had just withdrawn to put a substantial deposit on a new house.
Share dealing is gambling, we have a shares board...
Investing is gambling they go up and down.
The platform etoro is a substantial business in its own right.
This has a legitimate room for people to discuss ideas here in my view.

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Re: Crypto Currency board name

#476740

Postby csearle » January 28th, 2022, 1:00 am

Lanark wrote:I don't think any of that stuff belongs on an investment board, it is just gambling.
I suspect that gambling and investment are at at opposite ends of the same temporal scale. If a return is expected within a short time-frame then it is more like a gamble; if it is expected over several years or more then it is more like an investment.

The vehicle could be in shares, a currency, artwork, non fungible tokens, anything.

If we were to rule out gambling then we would have to draw an arbitrary line somewhere on that scale, which I don't think would be practical.

Chris

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Re: Crypto Currency board name

#476742

Postby servodude » January 28th, 2022, 1:06 am

"Tales from the Crypt"
- abstracting it a bit to widen the net and a bit of retro class to boot?

- sd

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Re: Crypto Currency board name

#476849

Postby Lootman » January 28th, 2022, 1:22 pm

csearle wrote:
Lanark wrote:I don't think any of that stuff belongs on an investment board, it is just gambling.

I suspect that gambling and investment are at at opposite ends of the same temporal scale. If a return is expected within a short time-frame then it is more like a gamble; if it is expected over several years or more then it is more like an investment.

The vehicle could be in shares, a currency, artwork, non fungible tokens, anything.

If we were to rule out gambling then we would have to draw an arbitrary line somewhere on that scale, which I don't think would be practical.

Chris

One way to look at it is to ask whether the activity is a zero-sum game, meaning that if investor A wins then investor B must lose. That looks more like gambling.

Or whether it is possible for all market participants to gain, such as when the stock market goes up. Then it is investment.

But more generally I'd agree that it would be fairly arbitrary to draw the line in any particular place. For example trading options looks a lot like a lottery, but it can still be a valid and interesting way to hedge or speculate.

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Re: Crypto Currency board name

#476852

Postby Mike4 » January 28th, 2022, 1:28 pm

JohnB wrote:Computer security people hate that the term Crypto is being stolen from them.


I always imagined cryptography being a subject of its own, not necessarily or exclusively to do with computing.

On checking, yes it is!

"Cryptography, or cryptology (from Ancient Greek: κρυπτός, romanized: kryptós "hidden, secret"; and γράφειν graphein, "to write", or -λογία -logia, "study", respectively[1]), is the practice and study of techniques for secure communication in the presence of adversarial behavior.[2]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptography

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Re: Crypto Currency board name

#479333

Postby BobbyD » February 8th, 2022, 3:14 pm

Lootman wrote:
csearle wrote:
Lanark wrote:I don't think any of that stuff belongs on an investment board, it is just gambling.

I suspect that gambling and investment are at at opposite ends of the same temporal scale. If a return is expected within a short time-frame then it is more like a gamble; if it is expected over several years or more then it is more like an investment.

The vehicle could be in shares, a currency, artwork, non fungible tokens, anything.

If we were to rule out gambling then we would have to draw an arbitrary line somewhere on that scale, which I don't think would be practical.

Chris

One way to look at it is to ask whether the activity is a zero-sum game, meaning that if investor A wins then investor B must lose. That looks more like gambling.


It truly is one of the indefinables. The problem with this definition is it assumes all participants in an activity are either 'investing' or 'gambling'. This isn't always, in fact may rarely, be the case. It specifically overlooks the aspect of skill. Gary Kasparov wouldn't be gambling if he played me at Chess for £100. Mind you neither would I, I'd effectively be paying £100 to be able to say I once played Gary Kasparov at Chess, and I was still in it right up to the 1st move.

The same is true at the poker table, and at the stock exchange. It's less true at the fruit machine and the blackjack table but every nutter with a system believes that they not the house has the edge. In this sense the term gambling is probably anti-useful. As I see it all 'investment is a subset of gambling, there is a cost and a risk associated with any decision. The real difference is personal expected outcome which is often hard to quantify, and ironically is easiest to quantify at the card table where a history of hundreds of thousands of hands, reflecting millions of decisions stand up to meaningful statistical analysis. I am investing in the nuts, you are gambling with two pair, he is paying £100 for a fun night out.

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Re: Crypto Currency board name

#479427

Postby Bubblesofearth » February 9th, 2022, 8:32 am

csearle wrote:I suspect that gambling and investment are at at opposite ends of the same temporal scale.

Whilst I agree with much of the rest of your post I would argue that gambling and investing are entirely different activities and not at opposite ends of the same scale. It's all about the mind-set of the individual. As you point out the vehicle is irrelevant.

So, for example, Bitcoin can be an investment if it is part of a portfolio of assets that aims to off-set risks associated with the other assets or to inflation. It can be a gamble if the aim is simply to unload it asap at a higher price.

Generally gamblers have a short time horizon and are looking for gains over and above what are reasonable to expect for markets. Investors typically have long time horizons and look for reasonable gains wrt risk.

It's possible to fudge all of this but I've been both a gambler and investor and the difference is crystal clear to me.

BoE

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Re: Crypto Currency board name

#479490

Postby BobbyD » February 9th, 2022, 12:44 pm

Bubblesofearth wrote:
BobbyD wrote:I suspect that gambling and investment are at at opposite ends of the same temporal scale.



Whilst I agree with much of the rest of your post I would argue that gambling and investing are entirely different activities and not at opposite ends of the same scale. It's all about the mind-set of the individual. As you point out the vehicle is irrelevant.

So, for example, Bitcoin can be an investment if it is part of a portfolio of assets that aims to off-set risks associated with the other assets or to inflation. It can be a gamble if the aim is simply to unload it asap at a higher price.

Generally gamblers have a short time horizon and are looking for gains over and above what are reasonable to expect for markets. Investors typically have long time horizons and look for reasonable gains wrt risk.

It's possible to fudge all of this but I've been both a gambler and investor and the difference is crystal clear to me.

BoE


That's not actually my quote, but the disagreement is! Like I said in my previous post I don't think this is resolvable because of the problems determining the 'true odds' and determining whether an individual is an expected outlier or a genuine out/underperformer, but here is why I disagree.

Firstly whilst I would like to use the mindset of the individual as a basis, it seems entirely natural, the problem is that in large part it becomes a matter of marking your own homework. An unskilled participant doesn't know enough to know whether they are gambling or investing. A bookish approach does not guarantee a more rigorous or logical approach. Somebody who believes seven times black eighth time red isn't investing, they are a gambler who has made an error in logic or calculation. A cardcounter on the otherhand I could accept as an investor. The difference isn't mindset, it is skill.

The timespan definition also doesn't work for me. 6 years ago I made a long term bet on the shares of a company (Delphi now APTIV) which was showing some success in the development of Autonomous driving. It's an area where far too little information was publicly available to make a rational decision and any payout was always a minimum of 5-10 years down the line but what they had achieved wasn't nothing, I wanted the exposure and I liked the odds. It was however a total gamble.

By contrast when I was sat at a card table, virtual or real, I had an expectation of return, over the long term, which changed depending on the variant being being played, the stakes, the number of players and the location. In effect I had an hourly rate, and what I was investing was my time. It was a job. The paycheque may be advanced or delayed but it always arrived.

I think every decision carries an element of risk, and has potentially good and bad outcomes. Even 'doing nothing' and keeping all your wordly in savings accounts under the £85k FSCS compensation limit leaves you open to the risk that Sterling takes a tumble or goes through the roof, and since your living costs are significantly impacted by its buying power relative to USD this is in my book a gamble. Which is to say in my book everything is a gamble, and investing is a subset of gambling which when you look at it closely most people's definitions revolve primarily around social acceptability rather than any inherent property of the action.

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Re: Crypto Currency board name

#479492

Postby csearle » February 9th, 2022, 12:46 pm

Bubblesofearth wrote:Generally gamblers have a short time horizon and are looking for gains over and above what are reasonable to expect for markets. Investors typically have long time horizons and look for reasonable gains wrt risk.
I agree, hence the word temporal. C.

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Re: Crypto Currency board name

#479495

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » February 9th, 2022, 12:57 pm

JohnB wrote:Computer security people hate that the term Crypto is being stolen from them.

I think *just calling it Crypto* is absolutely fine, and avoids tedious debate about the second word.

Personally I worked briefly on putting on VoIP call control stack underneath OpenSSL in 2006, i.e. crypto work, and I am not really worried about "word theft" :lol:

Matt


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