Overt political bias

[MrFoolish]

Here is a suggestion to improve the site. Remove the leftist, clearly politically biased, posts/opinions and/or the posters. Current Affairs and News is now simply an opportunity for biased left wing posters to have their say. It does nothing for a site which claims to be 'Shares, Investment and Personal Finance Discussion Forums'

I am sorry to say that it has largely lost its way.

Dod

What a strange post. Easily picked apart but not really worth the effort.

[XFool]

I'm not sure to which posts you refer, but I've not notice any particularly "left" views, though there are plenty of very right wing comments. I wouldn't like to see any form of censorship other than the usual ones to do with the law or decency. Who would make such judgements? Who would say what is too far right or left? And as a example of the problem, I note again you aim and "leftist" views and not "rightist" views.

It's in the nature of a board devoted to the capitalist imperative, that most people here tend to lean to the right - there is an in built bias. However, that does not mean we should not discuss more liberal attitudes.

Far too sensible. Though I may be "biased"...

[mike]

I just wonder, and I say this with the greatest of respect, if the problem is how the OP sees differing views to their own. A quick search on the OP's references to The Guardian gives a few indications

I have not read the article so cannot comment on its contents but I am prejudiced against the Guardian's content most of the time.

viewtopic.php?p=455843#p455843

Simon Jenkins is sometimes worth reading but the Guardian? What do you expect them to print?

viewtopic.php?p=455840#p455840

I sometimes wish that the Guardian would just shut up.

viewtopic.php?p=564398#p564398


I remember my interaction with the OP on the third of these quotes, that's what prompted me have a quick look.

I would class myself as quite centrist, a one-nation Tory, LibDem or Blairite Labour, but very pro-EU membership, and would say I see far more what I would consider far right wing than far left wing views here.

[servodude]

Here is a suggestion to improve the site. Remove the leftist, clearly politically biased, posts/opinions and/or the posters. Current Affairs and News is now simply an opportunity for biased left wing posters to have their say. It does nothing for a site which claims to be 'Shares, Investment and Personal Finance Discussion Forums'

I am sorry to say that it has largely lost its way.

Dod

In my haste to suggest the solution may be not to read the CAN board I forgot to mention it may be better in your situation to put such posters as you feel don't agree with your political views in your foe box. You can also report any posts which breach the rules of the site. I'd hasten to add though that the term "leftist" is not something I would have expected to hear from any posters on this board. I’d suggest it is a derogatory term and may border on inflammatory.

I think part of me feels that the opening post is more of an ideological polemic than a suggestion of ways to improve TLF.

AiY(D)

Crikey, part of you must have had a good sleep last night to come up with those words in Yorkshire!

I'm going to admit I'm heavily biased agin the idea of left and right; it's where folk sat after the French revolution... what's it got to do with me or 21st century existence.
I get it that folk "identify" with one of the other - but sheesh! that's a big part of the problem.
How the hell can I square the triangle that "I believe I shouldn't have a limit on the funds I can put away for retirement" and "I don't think you should denigrate asylum seekers" and "investing in green tech is a good idea" - if all you get to choose is which side of an aisle some ponce sat in a wig

I'd hope we're a bit more nuanced than that

[XFool]

How the hell can I square the triangle that "I believe I shouldn't have a limit on the funds I can put away for retirement" and "I don't think you should denigrate asylum seekers" and "investing in green tech is a good idea" - if all you get to choose is which side of an aisle some ponce sat in a wig

I'd hope we're a bit more nuanced than that

Some are, some aren't.

[scrumpyjack]

Look, everything is relative. Dod and I are left wing compared with Tucker Carlson and the current Conservative party is positively communist compared with the GOP

[XFool]

Just a quick comment:

I would class myself as quite centrist, a one-nation Tory, LibDem or Blairite Labour, but very pro-EU membership, and would say I see far more what I would consider far right wing than far left wing views here.

I only see a very few of what I would consider "far right" posts/posters on TLF. (I imagine most are typical old style Conservatives).

I see NO "far left wing" views or posters on here. I never have.

Anyone who claims they have (there will be a few!), well... Draw your own conclusions.

[tjh290633]

It is very obvious where some of the prolific posters stand. Often one line snide comments, with very little positive contribution to the discussion, except to regurgitate something from their favoured newspaper or political magazine.

Occasionally they go so far astray that someone needs to put in a correcting post, but in the main it seems better to ignore the rantings. It's when they stray into the main financial boards with some outrageous comment, again usually a one-liner, that they stir up animosity.

A recent thread deteriorated into an anti-cyclist rant, and a moderator stepped in. They should have included electric scooter users, but I digress.

We all have our own points of view. Only a few see fit to start political threads. They can often be safely ignored. We are all at liberty to start our own, but are then open to criticism from those of different views. Is that not the whole point of discussion boards?

TJH

[Dod101]

It's frustrating though when people just make statements based on their own opinions and present them as though they are facts. Especially when they are usually wrong but won't be corrected by others who know better.

And that I think is a form of trolling.

Dod

[Lootman]

Here is a suggestion to improve the site. Remove the leftist, clearly politically biased, posts/opinions and/or the posters. Current Affairs and News is now simply an opportunity for biased left wing posters to have their say.

Funny, I see the reverse, with too many (IMO) right wing opinions put forward.

Too many right-wing opinions? What is the correct number? Is there a quota?

I cannot speak for Dod but it does seem odd to me that there are any proponents of socialism on a site that worships at the alter of capitalism, since they are opposites. It would be rather like me signing up for The Guardian so I can make comments attacking Labour and left-wing thinking. Why would I do that? (In fact this is my only social media outlet; a fortiori the only place where I comment on politics).

If you think there are "too many" right-wing comments here then what tells me is that you hold left-wing views, and so "right" to you would be "moderate" or "centrist" to many others.

[Dod101]

Here is a suggestion to improve the site. Remove the leftist, clearly politically biased, posts/opinions and/or the posters.

...And keep all the rightist, clearly politically biased, posts/opinions and/or posters?

Membership of TLF to be restricted only to people who are proven members of the Conservative Party with an annual subscription to The Telegraph?

Current Affairs and News is now simply an opportunity for biased left wing posters to have their say. It does nothing for a site which claims to be 'Shares, Investment and Personal Finance Discussion Forums'

But isn't "Personal Finance" what most of the site is, was and remains about? Also, where does it say Personal Discussion Forums are only for people of right wing political views? Why do people of right wing views, in your opinion, not post on Current Affairs & News? My impression is they do and, from what you say, you must at least be reading them!

I am picking up a strong vibe here: "I am an unbiased Conservative voter; you are biased."

BTW. What do boards on football, humour, motoring and photography etc. do "for a site which claims to be 'Shares, Investment and Personal Finance Discussion Forums"? Not that I in any way object to the presence of such boards myself. If I'm not interested I don't read them.

I am sorry to say that it has largely lost its way.

What is this "way", that it has allegedly, lost?

I tend to relate very much to the investment side of things and I think to a large extent it has lost its way there. That may of course be the fault of the posters but there are far too many to me politically motivated posts. I see more left wing ones but there are probably right wing ones as well, but either way they do not add to the attraction of the site except I suppose they do attract posters who post almost solely on the Current Affairs and so boost the numbers which will presumably help the rates the owners can charge the advertisers. I cannot really blame them for that; capitalism in action, except that i think it downgrades the site.

Dod

[swill453]

If you think there are "too many" right-wing comments here then what tells me is that you hold left-wing views, and so "right" to you would be "moderate" or "centrist" to many others.

That's not the only logical conclusion. Someone who held moderate or centrist views could consider there to be too many right wing views here.

Scott.

[XFool]

Funny, I see the reverse, with too many (IMO) right wing opinions put forward.

Too many right-wing opinions? What is the correct number? Is there a quota?

Some do seem to be advocating a quota on what they deem "left-wing opinions".

I cannot speak for Dod but it does seem odd to me that there are any proponents of socialism on a site that worships at the alter of capitalism, since they are opposites.

Yes...

Is it possible for you to illustrate by example such "proponents of socialism" on TLF? Assuming it isn't all in your imagination...

If you think there are "too many" right-wing comments here then what tells me is that you hold left-wing views, and so "right" to you would be "moderate" or "centrist" to many others.

And, mutatis mutandis?

[Dod101]

I am sorry to say that it has largely lost its way.

I'd put it slightly differently to that, and say that it's lost it's 'ballast' from the Motley Fool days, which in all honesty was really never going to be maintained once we lost the structurally-inherent 'personal-finance' thrust of the old place, where their 'Educate, Amuse, and Enrich' raison-d'etre was much more than just a glib headline banner...

My previous thoughts on the issue from a year ago, which are unlikely to now change given the clear direction of travel -

https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=34078#p493660

https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=34078&start=40#p494029

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Thanks IAAG. I guess this has all been covered already but it just so frustrates me. I think you are right though, although not necessarily right wing. Always very balanced and up for a discussion which is what this site should be for surely.

Dod

[MrFoolish]

I cannot speak for Dod but it does seem odd to me that there are any proponents of socialism on a site that worships at the alter of capitalism, since they are opposites. It would be rather like me signing up for The Guardian so I can make comments attacking Labour and left-wing thinking. Why would I do that? (In fact this is my only social media outlet; a fortiori the only place where I comment on politics).

Does this site "worship at the alter (sic) of capitalism"? I'll have you a sportsman's bet the owners won't agree with this characterisation.

Anyway, are those on the "left" not allowed to take an interest in their pensions, investments or whatever?

[swill453]

I think you are right though, although not necessarily right wing. Always very balanced and up for a discussion which is what this site should be for surely.

You must, of course, recognise that it's possible that what you see as "balanced" may only seem that way because it aligns with your opinion/bias/prejudice/whatever.

(FTR I recognise it in me.)

Scott.

[Clariman]

I tend to relate very much to the investment side of things and I think to a large extent it has lost its way there. That may of course be the fault of the posters but there are far too many to me politically motivated posts.

If there are political posts on boards other than CAN, please report them. That doesn't mean any post that may express opinions that differ from your own views - I mean genuinely political ones.

I see more left wing ones but there are probably right wing ones as well....

I think this is in the eye of the beholder. Those with a slight left leaning bias will believe there are far too many right wing posts. Those who are right wing will think there are too many left wing ones.

... but either way they do not add to the attraction of the site except I suppose they do attract posters who post almost solely on the Current Affairs and so boost the numbers which will presumably help the rates the owners can charge the advertisers. I cannot really blame them for that; capitalism in action, except that i think it downgrades the site.
Dod

You misunderstand the ownership of the site. We do nothing pro-active to attract posters to the site and, if we did, the Current Affairs and News board would certainly not be the vehicle for doing so. It is the least pleasant part of the site and we thole it because it makes the rest of the site better.

We also don't "charge any advertisers". Sure we run google ads but that's it. Being a bit tongue in cheek here, but I think you are showing your own biases by assuming that this site demonstrates, "capitalism in action". It was set up for free in our own time for the benefit of the community. You could even call that a form of soc.... no don't go there Clariman

[XFool]

I tend to relate very much to the investment side of things and I think to a large extent it has lost its way there.

But, IMO, this view remains unexplained.

To me it comes across as using politics as a deflection or excuse for something else. Where are all these "left-wing" political interventionists on the financial threads? I either don't see them or don't recognise them (or agree with them?).

This IS a recurring theme on TLF: "Fings ain't what they used to be!"

With so called "left wingers" being posited as the fall guys. "Well, somebody must be to blame..."

Plus some TLF posters with their "snide comments" (YES!) blaming others who "Don't do it the way I do it - and that just CANNOT be allowed."

Personally? I think TLF site would be better of without THOSE tiresome posters. But perhaps I'm biased...

[Clariman]

Here is a suggestion to improve the site. Remove the leftist, clearly politically biased, posts/opinions and/or the posters. Current Affairs and News is now simply an opportunity for biased left wing posters to have their say. It does nothing for a site which claims to be 'Shares, Investment and Personal Finance Discussion Forums'

Moderator Message:
All posters are welcome to post on TLF provided they abide with the site rules which can be accessed from the link at the top of every page. This includes people of all backgrounds, genders, races, political leanings etc. However, the only place that politics can be discussed is on the Current Affairs and News board. My observation is that there are strong opinions expressed on CAN from both right and left wing political stances in broadly equal measure. That means that everyone on TLF will get annoyed by some posts there from time to time, but that reflects one's own bias and sometimes the poor quality of debate there. It is what it is. I read posts on the CAN board that I vehemently disagree with, which sometimes make me want to completely disassociate myself from the site that I help to run, but people are entitled to express their opinions. While we allow political discussion on CAN, we will all read things there we dislike. I would prefer to see the quality of debate and respect for other views raised. I will let this run for a little while longer but will lock the thread at some point in the not too far distant future.

[Lootman]

If you think there are "too many" right-wing comments here then what tells me is that you hold left-wing views, and so "right" to you would be "moderate" or "centrist" to many others.

That's not the only logical conclusion. Someone who held moderate or centrist views could consider there to be too many right wing views here.

Then I guess I would need to see examples of these alleged "right wing" comments, because I have not noticed any. Unless you regard any expression of support for free markets as "right wing".

Now, if there were comments supporting the KKK, you'd be right and I'd be concerned. We've seen some anti-semitism here but that ironically seems to come from the left.

And to clarify I am talking of discussions about economics and money. I am not right-wing myself on social issues like abortion, same-sex marriage, the legalisation of prostitution and some recreational drugs, and so on, which don't get discussed much here anyway.