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NuScale modular reactors

Green investment room for those with a green conscience or following environmental, social and governance (ESG) principles
88V8
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NuScale modular reactors

#519187

Postby 88V8 » August 2nd, 2022, 3:09 pm

Factory-built modular nuclear reactors.... and unlike other designs, this one has been approved in the US and has some serious weight behind it with CFPP https://www.cfppllc.com/ Fluor and NuScale https://ir.nuscalepower.com/overview/default.aspx due to bring six units online in Idaho by 2030.

The Nuclear Regulatory Commission released news last week that its staff have been directed to make a final rule certifying the NuScale reactor design for use in the United States. This is just the seventh design approved by the NRC since it was established in 1974, and the first of a coming generation of next-gen technologies designed to make nuclear power cheaper, easier and safer to implement than ever before.

Write-up here https://newatlas.com/energy/nrc-certifies-nuscale-nuclear/

and here https://www.powermag.com/nuclear-field-activities-completed-for-idaho-nuscale-smr-project/

The nice thing here, is that unlike many other new-tech companies, this one is actually listed... in the US.. so while we wait for the Rolls-Royce equivalent, we have a chance to get involved.
NYSE ticker SMR.

Up 40% in two weeks, but still relatively the ground floor.

V8

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Re: NuScale modular reactors

#520900

Postby SimonS » August 9th, 2022, 8:36 am

Snorvey wrote:Rolls Royce must be absolutely dying to get into this.

I mean we know they can build them and they know there is a demand for them.


As always, the problem is not in the ability to construct nor in the government permiiting their construction but in the realities of construction:

a) consumer reluctance: The general population is too easy to whip up and express denial of all things nuclear. Would you want someone operating a nuclear power unit at the site of the old gasworks in your town?
b) the costs of nuclear power don't lie in construction but decommissioning.
c) Uncertainties of operation. Most of the major nuclear incidents have been human (Chernobyl,Bohunice,Windscale,Dounreay, Three Mile Island) in origin.There are also many examples of construction faults, from corruption to corner cutting. While factory building may address the issue of 'safe reactors' that's of little consolation if the building the reactor is installed in falls down because a constructor cut corners.
d) Government priorities. Would you trust any of our current politicians to authorise a nuclear construction and to pay for it to be done properly? They can't even deliver dentistry.
e) In the UK where or how would you dispose of the nuclear waste? Or shall we just ship it to a third world country like our plastic? Yes, there are methods and processes, Sellafield and Windfrith used to reduce the volume of waste substantially (broadly:dissolve the matrix, extract the radioactive, reformat the clean residue and re-use,store the radioactive remnant) but there's an expense.

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Re: NuScale modular reactors

#520917

Postby scotview » August 9th, 2022, 9:06 am

Snorvey wrote:All fair points but the fact remains we need carbon free baseload power from somewhere, so i think we're just going to have to get over ourselves and get on with it.

Or figure out tidal or geothermal.


Or recognise that we are a tiny fraction of China, India and USA's carbon footprints and go back to good old HC for another decade, then see what happens.

This isn't meant to be cynical, by the way.

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Re: NuScale modular reactors

#520932

Postby mc2fool » August 9th, 2022, 9:47 am

Snorvey wrote:Yep, I agree - and I've said on here we should be getting all those old coal fired stations ready and primed for the coming winter.

Why? We don't have a shortage of generating capacity*, our dependency on Russian gas is negligible and the generating source of electricity makes no difference to the price on the grid, and hence to the consumer.

OTOH while we use almost no Russian gas, 27% of our coal came from Russia in 2021 and has apparently increased since.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9523/

* yet, we will once nukes start getting decommissioned.

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Re: NuScale modular reactors

#520978

Postby mc2fool » August 9th, 2022, 11:54 am

Snorvey wrote:Why? We don't have a shortage of generating capacity*, our dependency on Russian gas is negligible

Yes but everyone else in the west is after non Russian gas, pushing the price of LNG through the roof. I'm saying the use of coal will give us a bit more diversity. Even 'green' Germany is revisiting firing up coal fired stations (and delaying the switching off of their remaining nukes). Half of France's reactors are offline due to faults and the Germans are pushing the Dutch to reopen the Groningen gas field, despite the earthquake risk.

Everybody in Europe is scrabbling about before the winter time.

Germany (and a lot of Europe) is in a different situation 'cos they're dependant on Russian gas and if Putin decides to cut off the supply then they will have generation shortages, unless they do something else.

We are not, and if the price of LNG goes up (inevitably so) then it doesn't matter if we are using gas or coal or nukes or wind, the price of electricity will go up anyway; the global market cost of gas (wherever it comes from and in whatever form) is the determining factor of the price of electricity.

And if we switch on currently disused coal powered stations, as we already have enough generating capacity, that'll mean we have to switch off or reduce something else. That won't make any difference to the price of electricity but as we already import 27% of our coal from Russia that'll make us more dependant on Putin's whim. Not a good idea.

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Re: NuScale modular reactors

#520981

Postby BullDog » August 9th, 2022, 12:02 pm

Funny old world. The UK's literally stood on top of coal reserves. There's perhaps as much coal under here as KSA has oil. Even back in NCB days, the technology existed for clean coal generation***. It never came to much, largely because gas fired CCGT generation became so cheap and reliable.

*** I was involved in a large scale clean coal demonstration facility in the Netherlands ages ago called Demkolec. It worked fine but couldn't compete with gas fired generation.

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Re: NuScale modular reactors

#520984

Postby scotview » August 9th, 2022, 12:14 pm

mc2fool wrote:Why? We don't have a shortage of generating capacity*,


A few points

1 We do have a massive (X20 order of magnitude) shortage of electrical generating capacity to heat our homes.

2 When you used to travel by train through the Vale of York, 15 years ago you could see plumes of steam from coal fired stations, now nothing. Except Drax burning Canadian trees (now that's a paradox!). So even if we wished to generate from coal most of the stations are gone, the cooling towers demolished or the boiler houses are skeletal.

3 Wind is intermittent, particularly in cold, clear winter days with prolonged, and not uncommon, high pressure.

4 By getting a little breathing space by powering/heating with HCs, the UK could reduce the imminent crippling poverty, develop the likes of world beating mini nuks, SAFELY and to a high quality. We might even have the luxury of time to actually put in place a cohesive, REAL, energy policy and strategy.

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Re: NuScale modular reactors

#520990

Postby mc2fool » August 9th, 2022, 12:32 pm

scotview wrote:
mc2fool wrote:Why? We don't have a shortage of generating capacity*,


A few points

1 We do have a massive (X20 order of magnitude) shortage of electrical generating capacity to heat our homes.

2 When you used to travel by train through the Vale of York, 15 years ago you could see plumes of steam from coal fired stations, now nothing. Except Drax burning Canadian trees (now that's a paradox!). So even if we wished to generate from coal most of the stations are gone, the cooling towers demolished or the boiler houses are skeletal.

3 Wind is intermittent, particularly in cold, clear winter days with prolonged, and not uncommon, high pressure.

4 By getting a little breathing space by powering/heating with HCs, the UK could reduce the imminent crippling poverty, develop the likes of world beating mini nuks, SAFELY and to a high quality. We might even have the luxury of time to actually put in place a cohesive, REAL, energy policy and strategy.

My comments were in response to Snorvey saying we should get coal fired stations ready and primed for the coming winter. Your comments are more about longer term strategy.

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Re: NuScale modular reactors

#520999

Postby scotview » August 9th, 2022, 12:43 pm

mc2fool wrote:My comments were in response to Snorvey saying we should get coal fired stations ready and primed for the coming winter. Your comments are more about longer term strategy.


Your right, just in from the golf and didn't read too thoroughly.

Please accept my apologies, I must try harder !

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Re: NuScale modular reactors

#521078

Postby tjh290633 » August 9th, 2022, 4:18 pm

BullDog wrote:Funny old world. The UK's literally stood on top of coal reserves. There's perhaps as much coal under here as KSA has oil. Even back in NCB days, the technology existed for clean coal generation***. It never came to much, largely because gas fired CCGT generation became so cheap and reliable.

*** I was involved in a large scale clean coal demonstration facility in the Netherlands ages ago called Demkolec. It worked fine but couldn't compete with gas fired generation.

64 years ago I was involved in the Underground Gasification project of the NCB at Newman Spinney. The concept worked, but the gas produced had too low calorific value, solution use oxygen instead of air. Not practicable at the time, of course. However probably eminently practical for some of the undersea coal seams.

TJH

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Re: NuScale modular reactors

#521089

Postby BullDog » August 9th, 2022, 4:43 pm

tjh290633 wrote:
BullDog wrote:Funny old world. The UK's literally stood on top of coal reserves. There's perhaps as much coal under here as KSA has oil. Even back in NCB days, the technology existed for clean coal generation***. It never came to much, largely because gas fired CCGT generation became so cheap and reliable.

*** I was involved in a large scale clean coal demonstration facility in the Netherlands ages ago called Demkolec. It worked fine but couldn't compete with gas fired generation.

64 years ago I was involved in the Underground Gasification project of the NCB at Newman Spinney. The concept worked, but the gas produced had too low calorific value, solution use oxygen instead of air. Not practicable at the time, of course. However probably eminently practical for some of the undersea coal seams.

TJH

Yes, has been looked at extensively. Projects to generate syngas underground for many process applications. Sadly, to my knowledge, none have ever gone beyond proof of concept. Very frustrating given the extensive resources under our feet and the pickle we're now in with energy costs.

For example, the UK now has just one fertiliser plant up in the North East. The only other one in Cheshire has just closed a few weeks ago. The reason? Gas price. I think the one remaining plant would close as well if it wasn't for the large shortage of merchant CO2 that would result.

Now, the UK is importing fertiliser, urea, nitric acid, CO2 etc.... The thought of it depresses me.

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Re: NuScale modular reactors

#521096

Postby BullDog » August 9th, 2022, 5:07 pm

Snorvey wrote:
tjh290633 wrote:
BullDog wrote:Funny old world. The UK's literally stood on top of coal reserves. There's perhaps as much coal under here as KSA has oil. Even back in NCB days, the technology existed for clean coal generation***. It never came to much, largely because gas fired CCGT generation became so cheap and reliable.

*** I was involved in a large scale clean coal demonstration facility in the Netherlands ages ago called Demkolec. It worked fine but couldn't compete with gas fired generation.

64 years ago I was involved in the Underground Gasification project of the NCB at Newman Spinney. The concept worked, but the gas produced had too low calorific value, solution use oxygen instead of air. Not practicable at the time, of course. However probably eminently practical for some of the undersea coal seams.

TJH


I think I remember mentioning underground coal gas to you years ago Terry on the MF and you telling me this. From memory, I had read an article on the vast reserves under the Firth of Forth and how they planned to use North Sea oil rig 'directional drilling' to exploit the coal reserves. But that was a number of years ago!

The resources are all still there. INEOS who are on the doorstep wanted to trial fracking the seams to liberate methane. But the Scottish executive has banned all such exploration.


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