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Switching to green energy needs same urgency as covid jab
Posted: September 2nd, 2022, 12:40 pm
by richfool
Switching to green fuel needs same urgency as Covid jab, says energy boss
The UK would be paying "billions" of pounds less for its energy, if it had stuck with plans to reduce fossil fuel use, an energy boss has said.
Greg Jackson, chief executive of Octopus energy, told the BBC there should be a concerted push now.
The same "sense of urgency" should be applied to the switch to green energy, as there was for finding a Covid vaccine, he said.
The government said it had delivered a 500% increase in renewables since 2010.
"Without the clean energy we have deployed over the past decade, bills would be even higher today," a spokesperson for the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) said.
There were already plans to invest further in renewables, BEIS said.
In 2013, the coalition government led by David Cameron made a series of changes, including cutting back support for energy efficiency and later ended subsidies for onshore wind.
"If we hadn't done that, energy bills this year would be billions of pounds lower than they are," Mr Jackson told the Big Green Money Show on BBC Radio 5 Live.
"It's short term behaviour that has left us even more exposed than we need to be."
Octopus Energy generates electricity from renewable sources, including wind and solar and supplies energy to three million UK customers.
A report earlier this year by energy analysis site Carbon Brief said bills in the UK were nearly £2.5bn higher than they would have been if climate policies had not been scrapped over the past decade.
"We now need to get on with it, and going green will not only help prevent the catastrophic climate change we see already changing weather patterns, but will also drive energy costs down," Mr Jackson said.
Mr Jackson said he believed the process of creating new renewables could be speeded up significantly.
This is because it was the planning, consent and connection to the grid that took several years, while the engineering of a new wind turbine could be done in a year.
"In the pandemic we took that normal fifteen year process for producing and licensing a vaccine and we did it in a year.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62753949
Re: Switching to green energy needs same urgency as covid jab
Posted: September 2nd, 2022, 12:56 pm
by Mike4
richfool wrote:Switching to green fuel needs same urgency as Covid jab, says energy boss
Octopus Energy generates electricity from renewable sources, including wind and solar and supplies energy to three million UK customers.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62753949
Much as Mr Jackson talks a lot of sense, is this bit really correct?
My understanding is Octopus are a billing organisation rather than an electricity generator. A brief look at the website supports this impression although I didn't look for long. Need to go out now and fix someone's boiler!
Re: Switching to green energy needs same urgency as covid jab
Posted: September 2nd, 2022, 2:09 pm
by scotview
richfool wrote:Switching to green fuel needs same urgency as Covid jab, says energy boss
There are a few caviats.
1 For how long will wind power generation need a semi-hot standby, fully balancing fleet of gas turbine generators with guaranteed gas supply.
2 What is the REAL timescale and practicality for UK sized battery storage for say 5 days.
3 How many large nuclear stations will be required and when will the first one be on the bars.
4 When will the fleet of small scale reactors be generating.
5 Where will the nuclear waste be stored.
6 What is the total amount of NEW electricity generation Terawatts required to replace the UK buildings heating load supplied by HC, with the complimentary virtual rebuilding of the nations grid.
Haven't seen any answers to the above basic questions by GOV. There is no big picture and supporting detailed strategy.
Re: Switching to green energy needs same urgency as covid jab
Posted: September 2nd, 2022, 2:25 pm
by pje16
richfool wrote:Switching to green fuel needs same urgency as Covid jab, says energy boss
WHAT... you stand a risk of dying if we don't
Re: Switching to green energy needs same urgency as covid jab
Posted: September 2nd, 2022, 3:31 pm
by UncleEbenezer
Mike4 wrote:richfool wrote:Switching to green fuel needs same urgency as Covid jab, says energy boss
Octopus Energy generates electricity from renewable sources, including wind and solar and supplies energy to three million UK customers.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62753949
Much as Mr Jackson talks a lot of sense, is this bit really correct?
My understanding is Octopus are a billing organisation rather than an electricity generator. A brief look at the website supports this impression although I didn't look for long. Need to go out now and fix someone's boiler!
Octopus also manages quite a lot of funds (including a few quid of mine). Some of them are invested in clean energy: the main Octopus Renewables Infrastructure fund is shown by the AIC as having assets of £625.56m, and there were earlier funds including a couple of VCTs before rule changes excluded VCTs from the sector.
And yes, he's talking sense. Good to see the current shock is bringing voices like that to mainstream platforms like the BBC.
Re: Switching to green energy needs same urgency as covid jab
Posted: September 7th, 2022, 10:48 am
by kindjim
I absolutely agree, it's very urgent because we are losing the harmony of our Earth's nature.
The entire ecosystem of the earth will collapse if we do not take concrete action in the coming years. The evidence for this is global warming!
Re: Switching to green energy needs same urgency as covid jab
Posted: September 7th, 2022, 11:04 am
by 88V8
UncleEbenezer wrote:And yes, he's talking sense. Good to see the current shock is bringing voices like that to mainstream platforms like the BBC.
I agree. But in the context of renewables the keyword 'batteries' is still missing from mainstream/govt thinking.
V8
Re: Switching to green energy needs same urgency as covid jab
Posted: September 7th, 2022, 11:16 am
by scotview
88V8 wrote:UncleEbenezer wrote:And yes, he's talking sense. Good to see the current shock is bringing voices like that to mainstream platforms like the BBC.
I agree. But in the context of renewables the keyword 'batteries' is still missing from mainstream/govt thinking.
V8
And a rebuild of the grid to handle the X30 increase in generation to power our homes, transport and industry.
Re: Switching to green energy needs same urgency as covid jab
Posted: September 7th, 2022, 12:04 pm
by UncleEbenezer
scotview wrote:88V8 wrote:UncleEbenezer wrote:And yes, he's talking sense. Good to see the current shock is bringing voices like that to mainstream platforms like the BBC.
I agree. But in the context of renewables the keyword 'batteries' is still missing from mainstream/govt thinking.
V8
It features on the fringes. Better-still would be more attention to reducing the need for storage: energy saving, and fully-predictable baseload-capable renewable energy (principally tidal in the UK).
And a rebuild of the grid to handle the X30 increase in generation to power our homes, transport and industry.
To be fair, that's the business of industry (principally NG), and they're by and large getting on with the job.
Or did you mean the often weird and perversely-regulated issues of getting connected to the grid?
Re: Switching to green energy needs same urgency as covid jab
Posted: September 7th, 2022, 2:46 pm
by CliffEdge
Re: Switching to green energy needs same urgency as covid jab
Posted: September 7th, 2022, 4:07 pm
by UncleEbenezer
Snorvey wrote:CliffEdge wrote:Is that storage?
Well yeah. The renewables spin up the 2x 200 tonne flywheels and if you dont draw on it they'll spin for quite some time. I guess it works in the same way as chemical batteries in a home solar system.
The principle of flywheels for storage has been around for some time. I recollect hearing of them as far back as my schooldays in the 1970s. I think there the context was transport: buses in hilly countries where they'd save energy from the downhill to use on the uphill, and stop-start vehicles like milk floats (and again buses) that would store the energy otherwise wasted in braking.
Re: Switching to green energy needs same urgency as covid jab
Posted: September 7th, 2022, 8:14 pm
by 88V8
UncleEbenezer wrote:Snorvey wrote:CliffEdge wrote:Snorvey wrote:Re storage: One of these is already in operation near me...and I believe one is being built near liverpool, with several more to come.
Is that storage?
Well yeah. The renewables spin up the 2x 200 tonne flywheels and if you dont draw on it they'll spin for quite some time. I guess it works in the same way as chemical batteries in a home solar system.
The principle of flywheels for storage has been around for some time. I recollect hearing of them as far back as my schooldays in the 1970s. I think there the context was transport: buses in hilly countries where they'd save energy from the downhill to use on the uphill, and stop-start vehicles like milk floats (and again buses) that would store the energy otherwise wasted in braking.
The JET fusion project has been powered by two 650 ton flywheel generators since the 70s? or perhaps the 80s. At any rate, they were only powered up intermittently.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1243/PIME_PROC_1986_200_013_02Seems a strange mechanism for routine storage. Their use at JET was because they could absorb the high short-term loads without tripping the gird.
V8
Re: Switching to green energy needs same urgency as covid jab
Posted: September 7th, 2022, 8:57 pm
by CliffEdge
Snorvey wrote:It's more for grid stabilisation according to the site. And to mop up excess energy from offshore turbines that previously they couldn't use.
So not storage, electrical analogue of standard mechanical flywheel function. Brilliant news.
Re: Switching to green energy needs same urgency as covid jab
Posted: June 26th, 2023, 1:48 pm
by bruncher
UncleEbenezer wrote:Mike4 wrote:
Much as Mr Jackson talks a lot of sense, is this bit really correct?
My understanding is Octopus are a billing organisation rather than an electricity generator. A brief look at the website supports this impression although I didn't look for long. Need to go out now and fix someone's boiler!
Octopus also manages quite a lot of funds (including a few quid of mine). Some of them are invested in clean energy: the main Octopus Renewables Infrastructure fund is shown by the AIC as having assets of £625.56m, and there were earlier funds including a couple of VCTs before rule changes excluded VCTs from the sector.
And yes, he's talking sense. Good to see the current shock is bringing voices like that to mainstream platforms like the BBC.
Any idea why the ORIT share price has fallen so much?
Re: Switching to green energy needs same urgency as covid jab
Posted: June 26th, 2023, 2:14 pm
by daveh
88V8 wrote:UncleEbenezer wrote:And yes, he's talking sense. Good to see the current shock is bringing voices like that to mainstream platforms like the BBC.
I agree. But in the context of renewables the keyword 'batteries' is still missing from mainstream/govt thinking.
V8
Doesn't have to be batteries - just storage and probably a mix of technologies, but yes the government needs to think on this otherwise we will need to retain the gas plant. At the moment its not a problem. The required gas plant exists and the amount of gas being burnt will go down as it is used less often, as more renewables come on stream, but at some point that gas plant will reach the end of its life and we don't want to have to be replacing it with more gas plant.
Even now there are projects ready to go with permission (eg Large hydro pumped storage at Coire Glas) that are on the back burner because there isn't a sensible system of payments in place to quote SSE:
In the drive to a net zero carbon electricity system, the UK government has created mechanisms to de-risk other electricity infrastructure investments to drive forward the low carbon agenda such as Contracts for Difference for nuclear power, offshore wind, onshore wind, and cap and floor support for interconnectors. There is currently no mechanism to de-risk electricity storage investment.
Re: Switching to green energy needs same urgency as covid jab
Posted: June 26th, 2023, 2:24 pm
by Itsallaguess
bruncher wrote:
Any idea why the ORIT share price has fallen so much?
The whole Renewables sector is having a hard time lately, primarily due to higher interest rates and the likelihood that those higher rates might stick around for longer than previously anticipated.
A 6-month share-price comparison with some other Renewable IT's in the same sector are also showing chunky share price drops over the past 6 months -
Source - https://www.google.com/finance/quote/ORIT:LON?comparison=LON%3AUKW%2CLON%3AFSFL%2CLON%3ABSIF%2CLON%3ATRIG&window=6MIn a sector that's quite sensitive to interest rates, given their impact on DCF calculations, project financing, and debt-repayments, it'll be interesting to see how they handle a much higher interest-rate environment that might look to be a little stickier than previously considered, and how that might affect things like future dividend payments from the sector...
Cheers,
Itsallaguess
Re: Switching to green energy needs same urgency as covid jab
Posted: June 26th, 2023, 3:05 pm
by UncleEbenezer
Itsallaguess wrote:and how that might affect things like future dividend payments from the sector...
Do you think divis themselves are at risk?
I'd've thought the main factor at play here is divis in the sector losing their edge over traditional fixed-interest assets, and even cash savings. The whole sector was trading for some time at chunky premia.
Re: Switching to green energy needs same urgency as covid jab
Posted: June 26th, 2023, 4:05 pm
by Gerry557
The jabs cost over £12bn and rising to save a couple of billion.
That should see us through this temporary rise for 8-10 years
I'm not sure his figures add up. The green side is another question probably for another day.
Pick any issue and overspend on it and you might get good results.
Re: Switching to green energy needs same urgency as covid jab
Posted: June 26th, 2023, 5:22 pm
by scotview
richfool wrote:Switching to green fuel needs same urgency as Covid jab, says energy boss.
Why ?
Does he think the planet is about to spontaneously combust ? Or does he have a vested interest in all that green energy tax payers funding ?
Re: Switching to green energy needs same urgency as covid jab
Posted: June 26th, 2023, 5:26 pm
by scrumpyjack
scotview wrote:richfool wrote:Switching to green fuel needs same urgency as Covid jab, says energy boss.
Why ?
Does he think the planet is about to spontaneously combust ? Or does he have a vested interest in all that green energy tax payers funding ?
or even that anything we do, or don't do, in this tiny island will make any difference?