The Lemon Fool

Replies to ... those have contributed their thoughts, at a level I was able to understand

<Nationwide and HSBC manage by issuing me a security device >
.... that NW are withdrawing wef 8/10/18

<...and a companies reasons for deciding that they will require a mobile phone as part of a security protocol are theirs and every bit as valid as any other company which has not made the same decision, yet. >
Those reasons being
First; that the customer must pay - rather than S
Second; that they cannot secure their 'secure message' system

<That's not exactly what I said... I'm sure Santander have actually sat down and considered their security set up rather than just googling 'how should we secure our customers accounts', and if they've decided to use mobiles that's their choice, just as not having a mobile is the op's choice. People who don't like it are quite at liberty to move. >
... and their decision has been that security is not their problem – it is the customer's and as such the customers will have to pay for it

<I have accounts with both Santander and Nationwide. >
so you will by now have received your notification that NW will require you to have a mobile registered with them by 8 Oct 18 – if you wish to make payments online.

<... and I would fully expect the most fallible part in any of these systems is the bit which doesn't change - the customer. >
As that customer, I see how fallible I might be and choose not to make myself more vulnerable.

<Alternatively you can also setup payments by visiting any Santander branch,>
I went to branch and made 20 consecutive payments of £1000 to a different bank – when I was at home I tried to make a similar payment and it was refused without my having a mobile phone.

I complained to the Ombudsman - - he found in favour of S
I have disputed his decision and asked for the matter to be re-examined.
I will be studying whatever reasons are given in the reviewed decision.
I have seen some other posts that have sympathy with my view that access to a mobile phone should not become almost mandatory. I even noticed a reference on a national TV programme that claims to raise the profile of matters of public concern.

gnawsome wrote:<I have accounts with both Santander and Nationwide. >
so you will by now have received your notification that NW will require you to have a mobile registered with them by 8 Oct 18 – if you wish to make payments online.

We haven't heard anything from NatWest.

Slarti

gnawsome wrote:I have seen some other posts that have sympathy with my view that access to a mobile phone should not become almost mandatory.

You could come at it from the other direction to see it from the banks' / sellers' pov.

Cheques moved from being a premium ( paid for ) service, to ubiquitous and free ( as in fact did even having a bank account) . Now anyone who wants to use a cheque book is again asking for a premium service, and we came within a whisper of abolishing them. AFAIK, you still get a cheque book for free, which means the tail is being paid for by the dog. And even when you've got one, many sellers don't accept them.

The banks could choose to offer an alternative to a mobile. If not using a mobile is a premium service, are you willing to pay for it? Do you expect that sellers will be required to have systems that accept non-mobile payments? They have not been required to continue to accept cheques.

gnawsome wrote:Replies to ... those have contributed their thoughts, at a level I was able to understand

<Nationwide and HSBC manage by issuing me a security device >
.... that NW are withdrawing wef 8/10/18

Where's the info on this?

gnawsome wrote:<I have accounts with both Santander and Nationwide. >
so you will by now have received your notification that NW will require you to have a mobile registered with them by 8 Oct 18 – if you wish to make payments online.

No.

What's the problem supposed to be with card readers? They seem to do the job of generating a code locally without requiring a mobile supplied one. Or is the cost of providing the card readers the problem?

XFool wrote:What's the problem supposed to be with card readers? They seem to do the job of generating a code locally without requiring a mobile supplied one. Or is the cost of providing the card readers the problem?

I would suspect the issue is the vast vast majority of people don't want them and would much prefer a code sent to their mobile. They don't have to carry around a card reader, they don't have to remember another PIN, they don't have the hassle of resetting the PIN when they forget it.

For the banks it is a 'win win' - they make the vast majority of their customers happy and save money as it is cheaper not to issue card readers and saves money by not to have to staff the support lines.

There is the possibility it enhances security as I would suspect many people use the same PIN for the device as their card, and I would suspect there are a lot of people who have the PIN written on the card reader - so compromising both online and physical payments.

The only likelihood I can see for retention (other than as a premium service) is based on disability, in the same way as the banks are required to offer chip and signature cards to those who need them - although their promotional material for such cards is in the 'Beware of the leopard' style.

[quote=

<Nationwide and HSBC manage by issuing me a security device >
.... that NW are withdrawing wef 8/10/18[/quote]
Where's the info on this?

gnawsome wrote:<I have accounts with both Santander and Nationwide. >
so you will by now have received your notification that NW will require you to have a mobile registered with them by 8 Oct 18 – if you wish to make payments online.

No.
Received several days ago via RM - as an enclosure. Maybe with a statement or voting reminder.
Headed
There are a number of changes...
Item 2. payments in and out of your account
"... that when you use your card to make payments out of your account you might be asked to provide an authorisation code... If this happens, then it will be sent to your registered mobile number via an SMS.... "
Did I misinterpret.
I tried to copy and paste a part of the page but couldn't work out how.

You could come at it from the other direction to see it from the banks' / sellers' pov.

Cheques moved from being a premium ( paid for ) service, to ubiquitous and free ( as in fact did even having a bank account) . Now anyone who wants to use a cheque book is again asking for a premium service, and we came within a whisper of abolishing them. AFAIK, you still get a cheque book for free, which means the tail is being paid for by the dog. And even when you've got one, many sellers don't accept them.

The banks could choose to offer an alternative to a mobile. If not using a mobile is a premium service, are you willing to pay for it? Do you expect that sellers will be required to have systems that accept non-mobile payments? They have not been required to continue to accept cheques.

I remember those days - and the encouragement to move to online banking. I seem to recall being told that security would be taken care of by the banks and 'Bloggs' need not fear.
Now it seems there is much to fear and banks cannot even maintain a secure website - to the point that the customers must pay for the bank's inadequacies.
Have we ever heard of of such a thing...

[quote= We haven't heard anything from NatWest. Slarti[/quote]

Neither have I but I don't have any account with them.

genou wrote: Do you expect that sellers will be required to have systems that accept non-mobile payments?

I think my focus would be less on sellers -they will sell their wares however they think best for them.
More focussed on the likes of .gov, utilities, financial institutions and family members

gnawsome wrote:<Nationwide and HSBC manage by issuing me a security device >
.... that NW are withdrawing wef 8/10/18

XFool wrote:Where's the info on this?

gnawsome wrote:<I have accounts with both Santander and Nationwide. >
so you will by now have received your notification that NW will require you to have a mobile registered with them by 8 Oct 18 – if you wish to make payments online.

No.

Received several days ago via RM - as an enclosure. Maybe with a statement or voting reminder.
Headed
There are a number of changes...
Item 2. payments in and out of your account
"... that when you use your card to make payments out of your account you might be asked to provide an authorisation code... If this happens, then it will be sent to your registered mobile number via an SMS.... "
Did I misinterpret.
I tried to copy and paste a part of the page but couldn't work out how.

OK. Nationwide P3598_ON_July 2018?

But this makes it clear this is only in connection with the already mentioned (See 'Bank Card security') Verified By Visa (VbyV) system, for online purchases.