Santander strikes again PLUS

[Itsallaguess]

The reason for the multiple similar payments was to exaggerate their non compliance with their own Ts&Cs.

I'm sorry, but on the face of it there seems little benefit in trying to find a solution to your original problem by trying to create an additional one, which you seem to be doing by carrying out what in essence is a one-person protest at the front of a queue of other customers.

Have you got a friend or family member that you can explain this issue to, who may be willing and able to go with you for a face-to-face chat with a customer-service representative in your bank?

I honestly do think you'd be better focussing your energy on the original issue, and trying to find an amicable way around the obstacles you've already got, rather than any new ones of your own invention.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[GrandOiseau]

At 82 you need to be making better use of your time.

Credit cards have what they call "velocity limits". That is to say if you go on a bit of shopping spree, the bank may suspend your account until they can contact you or you contact them. It's for obvious reasons. It's a bit of a pain and inconvenience for all concerned. But some cloning your card and clearing your account is more of an issue.

Same thing applies here. There is no good reason for someone sending 20-odd transactions to the same account virtually simultaneously and you haven't provided one here. And I suspect the staff in the branch were of the same mind.

As genou says they have T&C's to cover this. And the ombudsman agreed with them.

Oh, and every bank will operate like this. If they don't they will hammered by fraudsters and scammers.

[gnawsome]

--

I'm having some trouble in understanding exactly how Santander are breaching their T&Cs here.

That might be because the service they are giving you is entirely different from the service they are giving me

@OP: Are you saying that they are requiring an OTP for payments to someone you've paid before? It's really not clear from your description that this is what happened.

That is exactly correct.
I had previously made payments to that institution and cannot now do so without a OTP.

Or are you saying that this happened, and then you went into the branch and tried to make 20 payments as a protest of some sort?

I am saying that I had previuosly made payments to that payee but am now refused without a OTP
Not only that payee – but every payee on my payee list!
I can pay no-one without a OTP

My personal experience is that I never get asked for an OTP for such an online payment, but I do for setting up a new one. Exactly as they say.

And my experience is the opposite, even after going to the branch c. ayear ago with a list of payees to be established, financial insts, public/govt bodies, family members et al.
They are all subject to a OTP.
Even the most recent payee, paid at the branch to whom I made 20 payments. They still will not accept payment to that payee.
My work-around is to use a different bank to make the payments that I need to but my funds, somewhat in excess of the protection limit are- effectively – beyond my control. Because of S reneging on their Ts&Cs.

[genou]

my funds, somewhat in excess of the protection limit are- effectively – beyond my control. Because of S reneging on their Ts&Cs.

That would suggest you are a Select customer. Have you attempted to get support through them? Alternatively, have you addressed the issue with online banking support? It sounds as if something is wrong with your account, or a security flag has been set, since the constant request for an OTP is not normal. I have a San account and am only asked for an OTP on payee creation, not re-use. Cock-up rather than conspiracy.

[DrBunsenHoneydew]

I am occasionally asked for a OTP code on an existing payee if the amount is much higher than usual for that destination.

[GrandOiseau]

gnawsome, when you asked Santander why you they request an OTP for every transaction you make what did they say?

This is not normal.

[CryptoPlankton]

I do hope that having to divert resources to deal with such uncompromising grievances doesn't lead to Santander raising my account fees again.

I do hope you are not relying on the Ts&Cs as published on S website to give you any protection.
I made that mistake

Protection against what? Sometimes things go wrong. I see that you have now explained the problem regarding setting up payees to avoid the need for OTP. If this isn't working then there must be some explanation - it does not seem to be an issue for other people. Technically, you may be right that Santander is breaching its Ts&Cs, but there is no point in getting angry - Santander isn't a person. The staff aren't your enemy and, rather than embark on a course of action that is bound to arouse their suspicion (and irritate them), I'd suggest it would be far more productive to calmly explain your problem as clearly and concisely as you can to try to avoid any misunderstandings. In my experience, they will generally do their best to identify what has gone wrong and try to resolve the issue for you.

Edit: Sorry, looks like you are getting plenty of similar advice so this is a bit redundant...

[chas49]

Edit: Sorry, looks like you are getting plenty of similar advice so this is a bit redundant...

It might be redundant, but it's clearly expressed so (IMHO) it was worth posting

[gnawsome]

my funds, somewhat in excess of the protection limit are- effectively – beyond my control. Because of S reneging on their Ts&Cs.

That would suggest you are a Select customer. Have you attempted to get support through them? Alternatively, have you addressed the issue with online banking support? It sounds as if something is wrong with your account, or a security flag has been set, since the constant request for an OTP is not normal. I have a San account and am only asked for an OTP on payee creation, not re-use. Cock-up rather than conspiracy.
I have no knowledge of being a SELECT customer so, no I have not tried to get support through them.
Maybe you do not get asked for OTP because you have a mobile registered with S.
I am stonewall convinced that is why I am having the trouble. Every attempt to make a payment gets a blizzard of "advice" on how to register my mobile number with them.
I am further convinced that S have some ulterior purpose in that they cannot permit any 'outliers' to escape this pattern. Maybe a list of registered mobile numbers has a commercial value?
As to being cock-up rather than conspiracy I firmly believe in the conspiracy and have shown the deliberate reneging on the Ts&Cs... an organisation as big as S, with its many layers of authority, does not repeatedly reject reasonable complaint unless it runs counter to their company intent.

[gnawsome]

I am occasionally asked for a OTP code on an existing payee if the amount is much higher than usual for that destination.

Again, might that be because you have a mobile registered with S?

[swill453]

I am further convinced that S have some ulterior purpose in that they cannot permit any 'outliers' to escape this pattern. Maybe a list of registered mobile numbers has a commercial value?

If there is any kind of attempt to stop outliers escaping, it's far more likely to be because those outliers cost them far more to service than standard ("compliant"?) users. A point you're ably demonstrating.

Not that I think
a) Santander are actively trying to force you to get a mobile phone, or
b) Santander would ever sell a list of registered phone numbers to a third party.

Scott.

[gnawsome]

gnawsome, when you asked Santander why you they request an OTP for every transaction you make what did they say?

This is not normal.

That is hard to answer precisely. I have raised the matter countless times by 'secure message' and at the branch.
No clear answer is ever provided. All I get is 'advice' on how to register a mobile phone. The whole Q and A with S just goes round in a loop.
When ever I present at the branch I now have to produce not only my S card but also my driving licence which is taken through to some back office – reason unknown.
I will stop allowing that as it is an unreasonable breach of something!

[GrandOiseau]

gnawsome,

You have no registered mobile so for new payee's or high value transactions you will have to use telephone banking or go to a branch. This is a choice Santander have made for Security purposes. Nothing more, nothing less. I have a bank account with First Direct which uses a little code generator. Which is fine when at home but if I go anywhere without it I am snookered. Every system has its drawbacks.

If it is asking for a OTP for an existing payee for a low value transaction then there is a problem to be addressed by Santander. Why don't you try a £1 test transaction to a payee you have used before. Does it still request a OTP? What is the exact message you get in online banking?

[GrandOiseau]

gnawsome, when you asked Santander why you they request an OTP for every transaction you make what did they say?

This is not normal.

That is hard to answer precisely. I have raised the matter countless times by 'secure message' and at the branch.
No clear answer is ever provided. All I get is 'advice' on how to register a mobile phone. The whole Q and A with S just goes round in a loop.
When ever I present at the branch I now have to produce not only my S card but also my driving licence which is taken through to some back office – reason unknown.
I will stop allowing that as it is an unreasonable breach of something!

Could you copy and paste the secure messages you have received into this thread?

I would be interested to know what they say and might help with figuring out the problem.

[GrandOiseau]

When ever I present at the branch I now have to produce not only my S card but also my driving licence which is taken through to some back office – reason unknown.
I will stop allowing that as it is an unreasonable breach of something!

TBH that just sounds like standard identity verification. People are asked for supporting id for all sorts of things. I wouldn't be concerned. Again these procedures are to ensure somebody other than you does not access your account.

[gnawsome]

158175

Postby swill453 » August 9th, 2018, 10:17 am
If there is any kind of attempt to stop outliers escaping, it's far more likely to be because those outliers cost them far more to service than standard ("compliant"?) users. A point you're ably demonstrating.

Not that I think
a) Santander are actively trying to force you to get a mobile phone, or
b) Santander would ever sell a list of registered phone numbers to a third party.
Scott.

That is some comfort, though I expect to have to find some way to attract more attention.
Maybe start issuing cheques repeatedly to the same payee...

[gnawsome]

gnawsome,

You have no registered mobile so for new payee's or high value transactions you will have to use telephone banking or go to a branch. This is a choice Santander have made for Security purposes. Nothing more, nothing less. I have a bank account with First Direct which uses a little code generator. Which is fine when at home but if I go anywhere without it I am snookered. Every system has its drawbacks.

If it is asking for a OTP for an existing payee for a low value transaction then there is a problem to be addressed by Santander. Why don't you try a £1 test transaction to a payee you have used before. Does it still request a OTP? What is the exact message you get in online banking?

I too have a card reader for Nationwide ( to be withdrawn wef October).
I find it entirely suitable for my purposes but see it may be less so for different users.
I also find your suggestion of reducing the value of individual transfers to be very interesting.Instead of 20 x £1000 do you think 1000 x £20 would be more acceptable to the system?
Though only after I have attempted a single £1 transfer.
I will attempt a screenshot of the refusal for your info – but expect it will be thwarted in some way

[GrandOiseau]

I also find your suggestion of reducing the value of individual transfers to be very interesting.Instead of 20 x £1000 do you think 1000 x £20 would be more acceptable to the system?

Doing 1000 transactions is going to be unrealistic. What we have to establish here first of all is whether you are being asked for OTP when you shouldn't be. Hence the £1 test transaction to an existing and used payee. If that doesn't work there is clearly an issue And that issue should be addressed before continuing further. If it does work then you can try progressively higher amounts (if possible, and at your convenience) to see what the trigger is for the OTP. But do the £1 first and let's see.

I will attempt a screenshot of the refusal for your info – but expect it will be thwarted in some way

You should be able to just copy and paste the text.

[genou]

...
Maybe you do not get asked for OTP because you have a mobile registered with S.
I am stonewall convinced that is why I am having the trouble. Every attempt to make a payment gets a blizzard of "advice" on how to register my mobile number with them.
...
As to being cock-up rather than conspiracy I firmly believe in the conspiracy and have shown the deliberate reneging on the Ts&Cs... an organisation as big as S, with its many layers of authority, does not repeatedly reject reasonable complaint unless it runs counter to their company intent.

I've seen the £1 suggestion, and it would be interesting to see what happens. Santander's published position is clear enough:

How do I use One Time Passcode if I do not have mobile phone coverage?
OTP can only be used in conjunction with a registered mobile phone with network coverage. However, don't forget that the majority of commonly used online banking transactions do not require OTP. If you do not wish to use a mobile phone then you can still make a payment to a new recipient using your branch or telephone banking service. Once a new recipient is set up, subsequent payments to that recipient can be made online without OTP.

https://retail.santander.co.uk/Estatico ... BS.html#o4

[gnawsome]

What we have to establish here first of all is whether you are being asked for OTP when you shouldn't be. Hence the £1 test transaction to an existing and used payee. If that doesn't work there is clearly an issue And that issue should be addressed before continuing further. If it does work then you can try progressively higher amounts (if possible, and at your convenience) to see what the trigger is for the OTP. But do the £1 first and let's see.

I will attempt a screenshot of the refusal for your info – but expect it will be thwarted in some way

You should be able to just copy and paste the text.

Doing 1000 transactions is going to be unrealistic. What we have to establish here first of all is whether you are being asked for OTP when you shouldn't be. Hence the £1 test transaction to an existing and used payee. If that doesn't work there is clearly an issue And that issue should be addressed before continuing further. If it does work then you can try progressively higher amounts (if possible, and at your convenience) to see what the trigger is for the OTP. But do the £1 first and let's see.
gnawsome wrote:I will attempt a screenshot of the refusal for your info – but expect it will be thwarted in some way

You should be able to just copy and paste the text.

You are not currently registered for One Time Passcode (OTP) which may be required to authorise this transaction.
Please take a minute to register for OTP now.
If you would like to register at a later date, please go to 'Change security details' in the My Details & Settings tab.
OTPREG_CODE1

I took a screen shot and also used camera but your suggestion of copy and paste gives the text but not as a screenshot.
I log on
select payees
choose one from the list and get on screen message;

You are not currently registered for One Time Passcode (OTP) which may be required to authorise this transaction.
Please take a minute to register for OTP now.
If you would like to register at a later date, please go to 'Change security details' in the My Details & Settings tab.
OTPREG_CODE1
Back to My accounts
No further options to enter an amount or to ammend any payee details (required for new accs at sme instis.
Overall no option to do anything other than '''register a mobile phone'''