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Name checks to begin on bank payments

Posted: October 18th, 2018, 7:53 pm
by Itsallaguess
I really can't believe it's taken so long for the banks to get their house in order regarding this, but it sounds like things are at last going to improve from the middle of 2019 -

The name of someone receiving a payment will be as important as their banking details for the first time from next summer, in an attempt to combat fraud.

At present, anyone wanting to transfer money enters the intended recipient's name, account number and sort code. However, the name is not checked. Under plans from the UK's payments operator, the sender will be alerted if the name does not match the account.

Banks have been accused of dragging their heels in introducing the system. It is designed to combat cases when fraudsters mimic a genuine business and attempt to trick people into sending money to an account controlled by the con-artist.

How Confirmation of Payee will work

When setting up a new payment, or amending an existing one, banks will be able to check the name on the account of the person or organisation you are paying.

  • If you use the correct account name, you will receive confirmation that the details match, and can proceed with the payment
  • If you use a similar name to the account holder, you will be provided with the actual name of the account holder to check. You can update the details and try again, or contact the intended recipient to check the details
  • If you enter the wrong name for the account holder you will be told the details do not match and advised to contact the person or organisation you are trying to pay
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45900955

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Re: Name checks to begin on bank payments

Posted: October 18th, 2018, 8:21 pm
by Lootman
It's good that they appear to allow a "fuzzy" verification, such that if I identify the name as J. Smith, and the name on the account is actually "John Smith" then it basically lets me continue.

Will this affect Paypal? One of the things I like about PayPal is that it allows to me send and receive cash without me revealing my real name - you can basically use any name on Paypal because it works off email address. Will that change at all, do you know?

Re: Name checks to begin on bank payments

Posted: October 18th, 2018, 8:38 pm
by JohnB
Long overdue, only hope they will ignore middle names they require you to provide, but no-one else will know, and give up on initials.

I think they are flexible already, as I have debit/credit cards with variants initial surname/initials surname/full name/ on, but the transactions always work with /firstname surname/

Re: Name checks to begin on bank payments

Posted: October 18th, 2018, 8:46 pm
by Stompa
JohnB wrote:I think they are flexible already, as I have debit/credit cards with variants initial surname/initials surname/full name/ on, but the transactions always work with /firstname surname/

I have a suspicion that currently credit cards don't check the name at all, despite the fact that they usually ask you to enter your name as written on the card.

Re: Name checks to begin on bank payments

Posted: October 18th, 2018, 8:51 pm
by Lootman
Stompa wrote:
JohnB wrote:I think they are flexible already, as I have debit/credit cards with variants initial surname/initials surname/full name/ on, but the transactions always work with /firstname surname/

I have a suspicion that currently credit cards don't check the name at all, despite the fact that they usually ask you to enter your name as written on the card.

That is a certainty given that:

1) Few sales clerks check the name or signature
2) A PIN renders the name or signature moot
3) Contactless renders just about everything moot

I have let people borrow my credit card and they have been able to use it with virtual impunity. Credit cards are bearer instruments.

Re: Name checks to begin on bank payments

Posted: October 18th, 2018, 8:55 pm
by JohnB
I mean for online use, which I guess is the systems they will need to modify.

Re: Name checks to begin on bank payments

Posted: October 18th, 2018, 8:58 pm
by Stompa
Lootman wrote:That is a certainty given that:

1) Few sales clerks check the name or signature
2) A PIN renders the name or signature moot
3) Contactless renders just about everything moot

I should have been clearer, I meant that I suspect the name isn't checked for online purchases with a credit card, just card number and CVV.

Re: Name checks to begin on bank payments

Posted: October 18th, 2018, 9:02 pm
by Lootman
Stompa wrote:I suspect the name isn't checked for online purchases with a credit card, just card number and CVV.

OK, it's funny you should say that because a couple of months ago, I gave someone one of my credit cards to use for a while. They had no problem using it in person but, when they ordered something online, they were asked for things like my date of birth and my address. Once I gave those to them everything was fine, but it seemed like that were at least some checks to ensure that the purchaser was entitled to use the card.

What pees me off is when the online transaction requires me to enter a code that has been texted to my phone. I should not have to have a smart phone to use a card.

Re: Name checks to begin on bank payments

Posted: October 18th, 2018, 9:17 pm
by Stompa
Lootman wrote:OK, it's funny you should say that because a couple of months ago, I gave someone one of my credit cards to use for a while. They had no problem using it in person but, when they ordered something online, they were asked for things like my date of birth and my address. Once I gave those to them everything was fine, but it seemed like that were at least some checks to ensure that the purchaser was entitled to use the card.

I've certainly successfully made an online purchase where the only info I provided was card number and CVV. No other info about the cardholder was requested.

Re: Name checks to begin on bank payments

Posted: October 19th, 2018, 8:44 am
by DrBunsenHoneydew
These extra requirements come from some cards requiring the likes of Verified by Visa. If the card user doesn’t know the VbV password or it’s not been set up you get the bonus questions like DoB. Use of a text message to a previously verified phone is the modern replacement for that rigmarole. It’s probably “for the best”, but it’s a nuisance extra step.

Re: Name checks to begin on bank payments

Posted: October 19th, 2018, 8:50 am
by jackdaww
why not include more checks such as postcode and or DOB ?

Re: Name checks to begin on bank payments

Posted: October 19th, 2018, 8:53 am
by swill453
jackdaww wrote:why not include more checks such as postcode and or DOB ?

Because typically they're not known by the payer. And why should they be?

Scott.

Re: Name checks to begin on bank payments

Posted: October 19th, 2018, 8:55 am
by swill453
For credit cards the check must be fairly rudimentary. When it asks "enter your name exactly as it is on the card", I always answer "first initial, surname". This despite my cards being a mix of first name, first initial, middle initial etc. It always works.

Scott.

Re: Name checks to begin on bank payments

Posted: October 19th, 2018, 10:19 am
by jackdaww
swill453 wrote:For credit cards the check must be fairly rudimentary. When it asks "enter your name exactly as it is on the card", I always answer "first initial, surname". This despite my cards being a mix of first name, first initial, middle initial etc. It always works.

Scott.


========================

i think the scan software is pretty flexible and probably quite clever .

Re: Name checks to begin on bank payments

Posted: October 19th, 2018, 10:32 am
by swill453
jackdaww wrote:i think the scan software is pretty flexible and probably quite clever .

Or on the observed behaviour it could also be pretty dumb. i.e. only checking surname and first initial.

Scott.

Re: Name checks to begin on bank payments

Posted: October 19th, 2018, 10:45 am
by mc2fool
Itsallaguess wrote:I really can't believe it's taken so long for the banks to get their house in order regarding this...

LOL! Yes indeed. :) Now I wonder if anyone has a link to the internet archive's save (if any) of the thread on TMF where Fools were claiming this was "impossible" ('cos of "Fred Bloggs" for "Frederick Bloggs esq") and were proposing that each bank account should have a cryptic hash value that one would also need to enter (in addition to sort code and a/c no) when transferring to that account. :D

Now, there is one issue with the way most banks currently implement "payees" that will cause a problem once name checks start that I haven't seen mentioned yet, being that the payee name is most often used as the identifier for the target account. I.e. when you want to make a transfer to an existing payee what you choose from is a list of payee names.

The problem with that is that, in my case at least, the great majority of payees in most of my accounts are myself, i.e. my savings and current accounts with other banks. At the moment I take advantage of the fact that the name isn't checked and name them appropriately, e.g. "SAN 123 AC", "BOS 87654321", "LSB IAI3" (Lemon Savings Bank Instant Access Issue 3), etc, etc.

However, once the payee name is checked and I have to put in the real name, i.e. mine, then unless the banks implement a separate identifier to appear in the list of payees that one chooses from, then I will just have a long list of "mc2fool", "mc2fool", "mc2fool", "mc2fool", "mc2fool", etc.

Of the banks I use only TescoBank does this, calling it the "Account nickname". Others need to do the same.

Re: Name checks to begin on bank payments

Posted: October 19th, 2018, 10:49 am
by mc2fool
Stompa wrote:I've certainly successfully made an online purchase where the only info I provided was card number and CVV. No other info about the cardholder was requested.

You also gave them your address and postcode, which are both checked as individual data, and your IP address, which goes into country validation.

Re: Name checks to begin on bank payments

Posted: October 19th, 2018, 11:07 am
by Stompa
mc2fool wrote:
Stompa wrote:I've certainly successfully made an online purchase where the only info I provided was card number and CVV. No other info about the cardholder was requested.

You also gave them your address and postcode...

No, that's the point, I didn't. I was using my card to make a payment on someone else's behalf. So they had their address and postcode, not mine.

Re: Name checks to begin on bank payments

Posted: October 19th, 2018, 11:13 am
by Stompa
mc2fool wrote:The problem with that is that, in my case at least, the great majority of payees in most of my accounts are myself, i.e. my savings and current accounts with other banks. At the moment I take advantage of the fact that the name isn't checked and name them appropriately, e.g. "SAN 123 AC", "BOS 87654321", "LSB IAI3" (Lemon Savings Bank Instant Access Issue 3), etc, etc.

However, once the payee name is checked and I have to put in the real name, i.e. mine, then unless the banks implement a separate identifier to appear in the list of payees that one chooses from, then I will just have a long list of "mc2fool", "mc2fool", "mc2fool", "mc2fool", "mc2fool", etc.

I suffer from the same problem. I must admit it had not occurred to me to use the payee name for this purpose, and I instead use the payment reference field, which is not ideal but better than nothing.

Re: Name checks to begin on bank payments

Posted: October 19th, 2018, 11:18 am
by mc2fool
Stompa wrote:
mc2fool wrote:
Stompa wrote:I've certainly successfully made an online purchase where the only info I provided was card number and CVV. No other info about the cardholder was requested.

You also gave them your address and postcode...

No, that's the point, I didn't. I was using my card to make a payment on someone else's behalf. So they had their address and postcode, not mine.

Well if that's the case then the merchant (or merchant's system) decided to accept it despite the card processor warning the merchant (or merchant's system) that the address and postcode verification has failed.

(I used to run a business that took online card payments and I implemented the interface between our website and our card processor, and if we got any such warning the transaction would be put on hold pending manual eyeballing...)