First Direct Internet Banking Plus closing

[PhaseThree]

A quick heads up to anyone using First Direct Internet Banking Plus. This service is to close on the 26th August.
This apparently due to legislative changes and the new security requirements coming in September. A bit of a shame, I've been using this for years and always found it to be extremely useful.

[swill453]

A quick heads up to anyone using First Direct Internet Banking Plus. This service is to close on the 26th August.
This apparently due to legislative changes and the new security requirements coming in September. A bit of a shame, I've been using this for years and always found it to be extremely useful.

Agreed it's a pity.

Their actual words are "Regulatory changes are coming into effect which will change the way people access their bank accounts online. Therefore, unfortunately, we will soon no longer be able to offer you your Internet Banking Plus service". To me those are weasel words and don't specifically say the new regulations would forbid the continuance of Internet Banking Plus.

I guess there's not much point starting an argument though. If they want to shut it down (and I suspect they do), then they will.

Scott.

[Dod101]

What did Internet Banking Plus give that they are removing?

Dod

[swill453]

What did Internet Banking Plus give that they are removing?

Dod

"Internet Banking Plus allows you to view your first direct and other finances together in one place, so you can see the bigger picture with just one simple login."

https://www2.firstdirect.com/banking/wa ... king-plus/

Scott.

[tjh290633]

That's odd. The system of doing that seems to be becoming widespread, with my own banker offering the facility. Can't say it appeals to me.

I wonder why First Direct are dropping it?

TJH

[swill453]

That's odd. The system of doing that seems to be becoming widespread, with my own banker offering the facility. Can't say it appeals to me.

I wonder why First Direct are dropping it?

Probably because it's based on old (Australian I believe) screen-scraping technology*, and not the new fangled Open Banking.

It's a web-based thing, not an app, so again it's old hat.

Ultimately I'd say they're dropping it because they want to.

* - which has to be re-programmed every time a provider makes a change to their interface.

Scott.

[kempiejon]

Probably because it's based on old (Australian I believe) screen-scraping technology*, and not the new fangled Open Banking.

eWise is the Australian Co, I use their own brand system for account aggregation.

[AF62]

What did Internet Banking Plus give that they are removing?

Dod

"Internet Banking Plus allows you to view your first direct and other finances together in one place, so you can see the bigger picture with just one simple login."

https://www2.firstdirect.com/banking/wa ... king-plus/

I found the benefit was being able to log in to all the banking services I use after only entering one (complex) set of passwords, rather than have multiple (complex) passwords which I would have to write down to remember. I really wasn't interested in the 'bigger picture' as I had that in a better and more accurate format in MS Money anyway.

As for why they are cancelling it, I suspect that almost no FD customers actually used it (aside from the few here).

[Nocton]

I have only been informed about this today and been redirected from the 'Managing your Finances board". https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=239679#p239645

This is/has been a really useful service and I cannot understand why more people don't use a money manager. I think that has never been well advertised.

The system of doing that seems to be becoming widespread, with my own banker offering the facility. Can't say it appeals to me.

You say it is becoming widespread. Who offers it? Certainly neither NatWest or Santander do.
I'll have a look at eWise.

[Urbandreamer]

You say it is becoming widespread. Who offers it? Certainly neither NatWest or Santander do.
I'll have a look at eWise.

I think that it depends upon what you mean. NatWest and Santander certainly DO, offer open banking.

ASFIK they don't provide an interface that agrigates their accounts with others. You need to find a 3'ed party for that (ie Barclays). You can then access your Natwest or Santander account through that 3'ed party, at least according to NatWest,Santander et-all.
https://supportcentre.natwest.com/Searc ... anking.htm
https://www.santander.co.uk/personal/su ... -providers

It's not something that I would choose to do, but were I to do so, I would probably use A J Bell, as I have an account there unlike Barclays.
https://www.youinvest.co.uk/faq/what-open-banking

I believe that this link may provied other options.
https://www.openbanking.org.uk/provider ... providers/

[Nocton]

UrbanDreamer, a multiple account Manager like Internet Banking Plus, is much more than 'Open Banking'. As it says on the NW site you refer to: "Open Banking is ... a secure way for you to share your information with Third Party Providers, as well as offering alternative payment methods. It will make it easier for companies to offer different and innovative services, while giving you more choice and more control over your money and financial information." and "if you want to use Open Banking, you will be asked to provide explicit consent to a company accessing your data, choosing how long and what they can do with this data." That means that I give the open bank cos. my info and then they offer me services. With IBP one log-on shows several bank and credit card account balances and then by clicking on anyone opens up the account to give full access. No sharing of my info with other cos. IBP is a benefit for me, whereas Open Banking is mainly a befit for cos who wish to sell me something.

[Lanark]

Up until a few years ago First Direct were very lax/blase on Security, so my guess is that they are being forced to either make the service properly secure (which would likely cost a fortune) or close it.

[Urbandreamer]

No sharing of my info with other cos. IBP is a benefit for me, whereas Open Banking is mainly a befit for cos who wish to sell me something.

If you say so.

However I fail* to see a difference between being able to view all your bank accounts using IBP from FirstDirect (who I believe sell banking services).
"Internet Banking Plus allows you to view your first direct and other finances together in one place, so you can see the bigger picture with just one simple login."
https://www1.firstdirect.com/banking/wa ... king-plus/

Using Barcalys open banking App (Barclays like FirstDirect sell banking services).
"You can now choose to see current accounts from other banks in your Barclays app"
https://www.barclays.co.uk/ways-to-bank ... gregation/

Or for that matter being able to see all your bank accounts (and your investment account) in one place using one login, as is possible using A J Bell's myWealth which uses the open banking API.
"Mywealth allows you to view all your financial assets in one place, helping you manage your money more effectively. You can add details of every asset and liability you hold, including those outside of AJ Bell Youinvest – such as bank accounts, investment accounts, property, pensions and more. "
https://www.youinvest.co.uk/faq/what-mywealth
(They sell SIPP, ISA and stock broking services)

Each and every one of them is a company that wants to sell you a service. I confess that I thought this thread was about a company withdrawing a service and that I could help by pointing out that competitors offer what I though was a symilar service.

*actually there is a significant technical difference. With IBP you trust FirstDirect with the security details to fully access your other accounts.
From the link: "you'll need all the security details for each of the online accounts you want to add to Internet Banking Plus"

With open banking you give explicit permision for a 3'ed party for a limited amount of access. If they were hacked, they still won't BE that 3'ed party, hence should not get the same access rights. If FirstDirect gets hacked (unlikly) then the hacker has the security details to access your other accounts.
I'm not sure who would have been responsible for any losses, but the law is changing and FirstDirect will be now. Just possibly why IBP is closing.

[Nocton]

TY for the extra info, Urbandreamer. The AJ Bell Mywealth software looks close to what I have with Internet Banking PLus, but I would need to open an account with them. The Barclays app is more limited to just a few banks. It does not include our building society, Yorkshire. NatWest appears to offer something similar. But both are apps on mobile phones, so for me at least, far less convenient fiddling with a tiny screen than seeing everything clearly on a big screen. And I don't like having financial info on mobile phones - they are so easily lost or stolen. But I'll look into the NatWest app a bit more. I only found out about it after you mentioned the Barclays app - they have not advertised to me/their customers so perhaps it is still being tested.

[vrdiver]

I used to use the FD app a long time ago, but decided it was too tempting a target to any bank hacker - my entire financial security data in one place and not under my control. Therefore I ditched it.

These days I use a s/sheet to track various accounts etc, a keypass app for security and veracrypt to limit access to any stolen PC or usb stick (and of course HYPTUSS for portfolio tracking!) Most accounts move very slowly and predictably (standing orders, DD's) and it's not that important to know the balance to the penny every minute of every day, so long as you're not performing a knife-edge juggling act with bank charges waiting for any error...

VRD

[genou]

TY for the extra info, Urbandreamer. The AJ Bell Mywealth software looks close to what I have with Internet Banking PLus, but I would need to open an account with them....

I wouldn't rush. I just had a play - I can add a bank account ( SAN ) but there is as yet no functionality I can see to reach out to access the account. I imagine it is "coming soon" .

[Nocton]

I used to use the FD app a long time ago, but decided it was too tempting a target to any bank hacker - my entire financial security data in one place and not under my control. Therefore I ditched it.

I think it is secure as the passwords are stored on one's own PC in an encrypted 'vault' entirely under one's control. They are not stored on a remote server and when one logs in they are taken from the vault and entered in just as if one typed them in one's self.

[Nocton]

Thanks, genou. It is as I surmised, there is not the functionality there is with Internet Banking Plus. I have been using computers since I was 20 at university and am now over 75. Obviously I have seen huge changes and was one of the first with a PC. For several years software improvements and changes all seem to offer something a little worse with less useful functionality. Just more hassle to get used to somebody's idea of better.

[Urbandreamer]

TY for the extra info, Urbandreamer. The AJ Bell Mywealth software looks close to what I have with Internet Banking PLus, but I would need to open an account with them....

I wouldn't rush. I just had a play - I can add a bank account ( SAN ) but there is as yet no functionality I can see to reach out to access the account. I imagine it is "coming soon" .

I'm not so sure that there ever will be anything beyond viewing the accounts with A J Bell. (NOTE that SAN needs to check that you are OK with even sharing that).

In simple terms, as far as Bell are concerned, they have provided everything that you should need to deal WITH THEM. You can view your wealth and if you wish to invest or divest then you can make a debit card payment to A J Bell or use Bacs/Chaps to pay out to your nominated bank account.

Open banking can allow 3'ed parties to provide the functionality to move money, but the only ones who are likely to impliment it will need a very good reason to do so. I can imagine it being offered by private banks and wealth managers, at a cost. It does carry risks for the provider. Others who might have to use the facility are new FinTech companies who offer the ability to automatically transfer surplus money to savings.

It is worth realising that what can or could be offered is only one small part of the subject. The other side is, who is responsible for lossed due to any abuse. Something that is not offered can't be abused by hackers. Then there is the question, what's in it for them? Companies do need a financial reason to provide a service.

MyWealth is a nice sweetner, just as the shares mag. However it is definately NOT a good reason to open an account with them. You should only open an account if you think that they provide the best value for your equity ISA, SIPP or broking requirements.

I mentioned it because I suspected that some may have accounts with Bell and not know that it's available. Just as I only recently found out that I can get Santander to automaticaly text me my account balance every monday and Nocton just found out that NatWest has an app.

[AF62]

With open banking you give explicit permision for a 3'ed party for a limited amount of access. If they were hacked, they still won't BE that 3'ed party, hence should not get the same access rights. If FirstDirect gets hacked (unlikly) then the hacker has the security details to access your other accounts.
I'm not sure who would have been responsible for any losses, but the law is changing and FirstDirect will be now. Just possibly why IBP is closing.

With IBP the login details are not stored with FD but on your own PC in a secure vault. The IBP technology opens the relevant bank login page and then pulls the details out of your PC's vault and inserts them in the right place - rather similar to some other password safes, but with the ability to read the 'enter the 2nd, 5th, and 6th character' selections. If you wipe your PC then the security log in details are gone.

I was quite happy to trust that with IBP and found it very helpful.

Having looked at Open Banking it is nothing the same. You have to hand over to the OB company access to your bank account - not thanks, and then the limitations of what you can do through their portal are usually 'look but don't touch' whereas with IBP you were fully logged in through the actual banks site and could do what you wanted.