How secure are our credit and debit cards ?

[scotview]

How secure from fraud are your bank cards ?

Just asking, because, due to an uncompleted card payment to Singapore for a StAndrews Day Tie we've had to cancel our four cards tonight, urgently.

I'm not too sure that our bank cards are too secure, maybe I'm wrong.

Our banking system gets curiouser and curiouser.....and scamier and scamier.

[stevensfo]

How secure from fraud are your bank cards ?

Just asking, because, due to an uncompleted card payment to Singapore for a StAndrews Day Tie we've had to cancel our four cards tonight, urgently.

I'm not too sure that our bank cards are too secure, maybe I'm wrong.

Our banking system gets curiouser and curiouser.....and scamier and scamier.

Presumably we have some protection with credit cards, though it pays to check the account more often than in the past.

With debit cards, it's important to have those that send a brief message and 'ping' on your phone whenever it's used. The only problem I've had was a Smile card that was cloned somewhere in Oxford. Unfortunately it doesn't 'ping', but fortunately it's a card that I use mainly online so I keep an eye on the balance and realised a week later when I saw two purchases in North London shops. Got it sorted out very fast.

When outside Europe, apart from using a credit card for hotels, I stick to cash and debit cards that 'ping' making sure that there is access to the mobile and internet network! I tend to stick to cards like Wise and Revolut for this. They save me a fortune in exchange rates.

Steve

[AF62]

because, due to an uncompleted card payment to Singapore for a StAndrews Day Tie we've had to cancel our four cards tonight, urgently.

Why cancel four cards and not only the card that had the transaction?

[Mike4]

because, due to an uncompleted card payment to Singapore for a StAndrews Day Tie we've had to cancel our four cards tonight, urgently.

Why cancel four cards and not only the card that had the transaction?

As a wild guess four cards for four people, all attached to the same bank account perhaps.

[pje16]

Watch episode 1
it goes from easily hackable to secure
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=36804

[88V8]

Been lucky perhaps with our two cards, and their great grandaddy Access. Anyone remember Access?

One card I keep for 'best' ie in-person transactions in decent establishments.

The other card I use online, and for customer-not-present, and if the chap over the counter looks dodgy.
That card has been cloned twice, once was a petrol station, the other I don't know. In each case some suspicious transactions were very quickly flagged by the issuer and the card blocked by them, and I was refunded.
It certainly helps if the issuer's security dept is on the ball but of course one cannot know that until afterwards.

Mostly for online I use Paypal where I have never had a problem in over 2000 transactions.

I am not happy with contactless, but have yet to stir myself to request contactlessless cards.

V8

[mc2fool]

I am not happy with contactless, but have yet to stir myself to request contactlessless cards.

And if you do and they don't provide one then, using a Stanley knife or similar, score deeply (but not all the way through!) either side of the chip and your contactless card will no longer be so (it cuts the connections to the antenna).

[stevensfo]

I am not happy with contactless, but have yet to stir myself to request contactlessless cards.

And if you do and they don't provide one then, using a Stanley knife or similar, score deeply (but not all the way through!) either side of the chip and your contactless card will no longer be so (it cuts the connections to the antenna).

You shouldn't have to do this on both sides. One cut is enough. Just cut about 3-5mm on the short edge that faces you when you put it into an ATM. If you cut the other end, it may interfere with the mechanism that grabs and reads the card. Even better than a Stanley knife is a razor blade or scalpel.

You can then test that the contactless function is deactivated by using any device that reads cards, whether a door swipe security lock or supermarket. I think you can also buy readers on Amazon. If it bleeps then it's still active. i.e. even if not for payments, the reader will still register the presence of a card.

I tested this on an old Lloyds card and then a Nationwide card many years ago using the security card swipe lock for our building.

Now that so many bank apps inform you immediately via your phone when your card is used, I'm not so worried about contactless as I was years ago.


Steve

[XFool]

Been lucky perhaps with our two cards, and their great grandaddy Access. Anyone remember Access?

Yes. It was my original credit card, from sometime in the middle 1970s until it was withdrawn in 1996. I didn't even have an 'ordinary' bank account originally either (National Giro).

Only card trouble I have ever had, or noticed, (beyond loss/theft) was a small cash withdrawal a couple of years ago from my Barclaycard.

I am not happy with contactless, but have yet to stir myself to request contactlessless cards.

I don't use contactless, either.

[mc2fool]

I am not happy with contactless, but have yet to stir myself to request contactlessless cards.

And if you do and they don't provide one then, using a Stanley knife or similar, score deeply (but not all the way through!) either side of the chip and your contactless card will no longer be so (it cuts the connections to the antenna).

You shouldn't have to do this on both sides. One cut is enough. Just cut about 3-5mm on the short edge that faces you when you put it into an ATM. If you cut the other end, it may interfere with the mechanism that grabs and reads the card. Even better than a Stanley knife is a razor blade or scalpel.

You can then test that the contactless function is deactivated by using any device that reads cards, whether a door swipe security lock or supermarket. I think you can also buy readers on Amazon. If it bleeps then it's still active. i.e. even if not for payments, the reader will still register the presence of a card.

I tested this on an old Lloyds card and then a Nationwide card many years ago using the security card swipe lock for our building.

Now that so many bank apps inform you immediately via your phone when your card is used, I'm not so worried about contactless as I was years ago.

I followed the method shown in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwBa1FwaAbo years ago to nobble my cahoot debit card when they wouldn't send me a non-contactless one, and have repeated the exercise on its replacement after the first one expired. In three years when this one expires if they still won't send me a non-contactless replacement I'll try cutting on just one side and see.

You can also check if you've been successful or not by using an NFC reader app on your phone. The one he uses is https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... emvnfccard and I've used it too, and there are plenty of other NFC apps -- but if you choose any others make sure that, like that one, they don't require any permissions (and especially not internet permission or any other send-my-card-details-to-scammers permission ).

Not quite sure what you mean by scoring the other side of the chip may interfere with the mechanism that grabs and reads the card, not sure how that could happen. The only problem I've had with the card was actually just the other day, when I forgot to get cash before going into Sainsburys (I always pay in cash at supermarkets) and on sticking the card into the reader at the till it said words to the effect of "no chip, card in wrong way round?", which it wasn't and the card worked perfectly fine immediately afterwards at an ATM, so not sure what that was about! (I paid with another, non-contactless, card.)

My reason for nobbling the card isn't a worry about security but rather so that I can keep it in the same wallet as my Freedom Pass and so can tap in to transport with the wallet without having to get the pass out or getting "card clash", but that's another story...

[stevensfo]

I am not happy with contactless, but have yet to stir myself to request contactlessless cards.

And if you do and they don't provide one then, using a Stanley knife or similar, score deeply (but not all the way through!) either side of the chip and your contactless card will no longer be so (it cuts the connections to the antenna).

You shouldn't have to do this on both sides. One cut is enough. Just cut about 3-5mm on the short edge that faces you when you put it into an ATM. If you cut the other end, it may interfere with the mechanism that grabs and reads the card. Even better than a Stanley knife is a razor blade or scalpel.

You can then test that the contactless function is deactivated by using any device that reads cards, whether a door swipe security lock or supermarket. I think you can also buy readers on Amazon. If it bleeps then it's still active. i.e. even if not for payments, the reader will still register the presence of a card.

I tested this on an old Lloyds card and then a Nationwide card many years ago using the security card swipe lock for our building.

Now that so many bank apps inform you immediately via your phone when your card is used, I'm not so worried about contactless as I was years ago.

I followed the method shown in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwBa1FwaAbo years ago to nobble my cahoot debit card when they wouldn't send me a non-contactless one, and have repeated the exercise on its replacement after the first one expired. In three years when this one expires if they still won't send me a non-contactless replacement I'll try cutting on just one side and see.

Ah, now I understand. This is very different to what I did. The method I learned was that, assuming that the antenna will run all around the edge of the card, it's sufficient to make a simple small nick/cut in the short edge of the card - easier and possibly safer than scraping so close to the actual chip. That's why I mentioned not cutting into the side that goes into the ATM.

Methinks an afternoon of experimenting is called for. I have some old bank cards and loads of store loyalty cards somewhere. I may download that app as well. Thanks.

Steve

[mc2fool]

I followed the method shown in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwBa1FwaAbo years ago to nobble my cahoot debit card when they wouldn't send me a non-contactless one, and have repeated the exercise on its replacement after the first one expired. In three years when this one expires if they still won't send me a non-contactless replacement I'll try cutting on just one side and see.

Ah, now I understand. This is very different to what I did. The method I learned was that, assuming that the antenna will run all around the edge of the card, it's sufficient to make a simple small nick/cut in the short edge of the card - easier and possibly safer than scraping so close to the actual chip. That's why I mentioned not cutting into the side that goes into the ATM.

Methinks an afternoon of experimenting is called for. I have some old bank cards and loads of store loyalty cards somewhere. I may download that app as well. Thanks.

When I researched the matter I found videos on a variety of techniques, from drilling a hole in the card in a specific spot, to cutting a nick in one edge or another, to scraping out one edge a little, and others, and most of those stated some ambiguity as to whether they'd actually hit the antenna wires or not, which may not be in the same places in all cards. Indeed, some proposed that holding the card up to a very strong light would enable one to see the wires but I can only imagine that'd only work with very thin and flimsy cards, it certainly didn't with mine, which is totally opaque!

So I went with the one I used as it seemed the most certain. The antenna wires have to connect to the chip so scoring adjacent to it is bound (?) to cut them. I tried it and it worked and it's the only technique I've used. But you spending an afternoon experimenting sounds like a good idea ... please write up your findings. Hey, you could even make a YouTube video...

[AF62]

Mostly for online I use Paypal where I have never had a problem in over 2000 transactions.

The issue with using PayPal is it breaks the ‘creditor / debtor’ link, which is a problem if you want to make a S75 claim.

For low value online transactions where you may be uncertain about the vendor, then Revolut (and other banks) will allow you to generate ‘single use’ card numbers.

As for security for ‘in-person’ transactions, my preference is contactless using my phone or watch, not the card, and to be honest I rarely carry the physical card.

Using contactless on a phone or watch places the contactless payment behind the security in the device so anyone other than me can’t just tap and use it.

It also presents a different card number from the actual card, but most importantly it instantly shows the amount authorised on the phone or watch.

[Stompa]

As for security for ‘in-person’ transactions, my preference is contactless using my phone or watch, not the card, and to be honest I rarely carry the physical card.

I was once asked to insert my card (goodness knows why!) while using contactless on my phone, so tend to carry the physical card just in case.

[Arborbridge]

Mention has been made of the Knights that go "ping" - sorry, I mean cards which ping when you use them.

I've not come across this - is it only on a couple of types of bank card? I have some of the usual cards but never notice a pinging option.

The only time I've come across something similar was when my daughter was living in the UAE. For the bank card issued there, I believe it was mandatory that the wife's expenditure was flagged up immediately to the husband. She was infuriated I doubt it worked the other way round.

Arb.

[AF62]

As for security for ‘in-person’ transactions, my preference is contactless using my phone or watch, not the card, and to be honest I rarely carry the physical card.

I was once asked to insert my card (goodness knows why!) while using contactless on my phone, so tend to carry the physical card just in case.

It happens occasionally with Amex, where they accept Amex but the card reader isn't set up to accept Amex by contactless. However swapping over to a Mastercard or Visa solves the issue.

Mention has been made of the Knights that go "ping" - sorry, I mean cards which ping when you use them.

I've not come across this - is it only on a couple of types of bank card? I have some of the usual cards but never notice a pinging option.

I get notifications because either the bank's app is on my phone and it is set up to do that if it is an actual card payment, or the payment was made through Apple Wallet and it was set to notify me

[Stompa]

As for security for ‘in-person’ transactions, my preference is contactless using my phone or watch, not the card, and to be honest I rarely carry the physical card.

I was once asked to insert my card (goodness knows why!) while using contactless on my phone, so tend to carry the physical card just in case.

It happens occasionally with Amex, where they accept Amex but the card reader isn't set up to accept Amex by contactless. However swapping over to a Mastercard or Visa solves the issue.

It happened to me with a Mastercard.

[AF62]

As for security for ‘in-person’ transactions, my preference is contactless using my phone or watch, not the card, and to be honest I rarely carry the physical card.

I was once asked to insert my card (goodness knows why!) while using contactless on my phone, so tend to carry the physical card just in case.

It happens occasionally with Amex, where they accept Amex but the card reader isn't set up to accept Amex by contactless. However swapping over to a Mastercard or Visa solves the issue.

It happened to me with a Mastercard.

Did you try any of the other cards on your phone contactless (assuming you have other cards on your phone).

[Arborbridge]

Mention has been made of the Knights that go "ping" - sorry, I mean cards which ping when you use them.

I've not come across this - is it only on a couple of types of bank card? I have some of the usual cards but never notice a pinging option.

I get notifications because either the bank's app is on my phone and it is set up to do that if it is an actual card payment, or the payment was made through Apple Wallet and it was set to notify me

Ok that explains it. I don't use banking apps on the phone except for my M&S cc.

Arb.

[Stompa]

As for security for ‘in-person’ transactions, my preference is contactless using my phone or watch, not the card, and to be honest I rarely carry the physical card.

I was once asked to insert my card (goodness knows why!) while using contactless on my phone, so tend to carry the physical card just in case.

It happens occasionally with Amex, where they accept Amex but the card reader isn't set up to accept Amex by contactless. However swapping over to a Mastercard or Visa solves the issue.

It happened to me with a Mastercard.

Did you try any of the other cards on your phone contactless (assuming you have other cards on your phone).

No, it's the only card I have on my phone. However, I have used that particular card successfully (contactless on my phone) at the same shop (same C&P machine) both before and since.