(Transfer) Wise problems

[GoSeigen]

Wise are seriously jerking me around at the moment. I've been a customer for a few years and ordered numerous cross-border transfers with them.

On my latest transfer they have suddenly decided to do an origin of funds check. All my funds to meet expenses come from our investments. I am now in the third or fourth round of uploading an investment portfolio statement showing a value of £200,000 and they are refusing to accept it. But they won't explain what is wrong with it or what else they want.

This is extremely irritating especially as they have already taken my funds for this transfer and it is being held up so I'm unable to pay school fees. I'm now struggling to see why I should every use their services again.


GS

[ReformedCharacter]

Wise are seriously jerking me around at the moment. I've been a customer for a few years and ordered numerous cross-border transfers with them.

On my latest transfer they have suddenly decided to do an origin of funds check. All my funds to meet expenses come from our investments. I am now in the third or fourth round of uploading an investment portfolio statement showing a value of £200,000 and they are refusing to accept it. But they won't explain what is wrong with it or what else they want.

This is extremely irritating especially as they have already taken my funds for this transfer and it is being held up so I'm unable to pay school fees. I'm now struggling to see why I should every use their services again.


GS

Having used them for a few years, they gave up on me earlier this year. They required a new set of proof of identity documents. Eventually I got put through to a company that apparently does ID checks for TW via their app. Very annoying. I needed to show a current passport which I don't have and my driving licence wasn't sufficient. I ended up using Remitly, which seemed good, decent exchange rate and less hassle. I've also used GlobalWebPay.

RC

[Newroad]

Hi GS.

Are they answering their phone/webchat, but being obtuse, or are you unable to contact them to discuss?

Regards, Newroad

[GoSeigen]

Hi GS.

Are they answering their phone/webchat, but being obtuse, or are you unable to contact them to discuss?

Regards, Newroad

So far I've interacted via their emails and web interface demanding these documents. I got two emails in succession which were identical, i.e. the second added no further information to that in the first, both of them signed from "Joey"; perhaps this is automated or perhaps it's actually a human putting out boilerplate messages.

I've now complained via their online contact system and will feed back any response. Very annoying because I have to pay staff wages end of this month, might have to use a different agent to transfer the funds.

GS

[GoSeigen]

Hi GS.

Are they answering their phone/webchat, but being obtuse, or are you unable to contact them to discuss?

Regards, Newroad

Wise responded with a supremely unhelpful "I can see your document, but we can’t accept it because it didn’t show all the information we need to complete our checks."

If some requirement is not met, then how is one supposed to remedy that without knowing what the problem is. Meanwhile Wise are sitting on our funds and refuse to honour their contract to transfer them. If they were not satisfied as to the legality of funds from their longstanding customer then they should not have accepted the contract and taken payment in the first place.


I have had unexplained delays of a day or two recently beyond Wise's scheduled transfer date but this problem is on a different level altogether.


Unfortunately I have to warn Fools: BE VERY CAREFUL BEFORE USING THIS COMPANY.

GS

[Steveam]

I use WISE regularly and have not had any problems.

This, from their AR, may explain a tightening of their checks:

In August of 2022 the Abu Dhabi Global Market Financial Services Regulatory Authority found that our anti-money laundering controls did not meet their requirements and issued a penalty of US$360,000. No instances of money laundering were identified, and we quickly amended our controls. This does, however, serve as a reminder of the need to maintain focus on constantly assessing what is a consistently evolving regulatory and compliance landscape.

Best wishes, Steve (I hold)

[GoSeigen]

Oh my God, now I'm seriously worried. People going for weeks without access to their funds. This is not looking good at all.

GS

[GoSeigen]

Oh my God, now I'm seriously worried. People going for weeks without access to their funds. This is not looking good at all.

GS

AND they seem to be stuffing TrustPilot with fake 5* reviews which is a massive red flag IMO. Wish I'd noticed the flags earlier.

Beware this company and its apologists.

I use WISE regularly and have not had any problems.

Ditto. Now I do have a problem. What do you suggest the company do to resolve my situation, since you see to be a fan?


No excuse to hold on to customers' funds: if you can't do the transfer, return the money.


GS

[RockRabbit]

Another possible red flag is that both the CEO and CFO have announced that they are to leave Wise.

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/top-t ... 19912.html

Oh, and the current CEO appears appears to have been a UK tax defaulter!

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... o-kaarmann

[Steveam]

Hi GS,

I am a fan because I’ve had nothing but good service.

I really don’t know enough of the detail of your issue but can’t you approach the FSA …

I do realise that you’re having a dreadful experience but most firms have problems. Some years ago I had an account frozen by one of the big banks - it took forever to sort it out and there was never an explanation except that the account had been flagged. No apology, nothing.

Later I was involved in a regulated profession (legal services) and discovered what a horrendous mess suspected money laundering creates. The firm is not allowed to tell you anything about the cause of the flag while it makes enquiries - it really is a mess. I don’t know enough of the financial services AML regs but they may have no choice about freezing the account.

They may have implemented their regulatory compliance badly but they may be doing things pretty ok.

I’m not convinced by the link you gave as it’s only those who feel or are hard done by who complain …

I really do wish you every success in getting this sorted out but I’d still, happily, recommend them to friends and family. I have no experience of using them for business transfers.

Best wishes, Steve

[XFool]

Oh my God, now I'm seriously worried. People going for weeks without access to their funds. This is not looking good at all.

There is a bit of argy-bargy on the Wikipedia Talk page for Wise: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wise_(company)#Deactivation_of_Accounts

My only experience of Wise is that the only time I have ever had a false transaction on my credit card (after having credit cards since about 1975) was a cash transfer of £20 to Wise.

[Alaric]

They may have implemented their regulatory compliance badly but they may be doing things pretty ok.

I would have thought that for international transfers, not going over the top on regulatory compliance was one of the most important aspects of their service. It reminds me a bit of the time when Selftrade went over the top in demanding source of funds, asking in effect where your grandparents go their wealth if you inherited some of it.

Perhaps the blame lies with legislators. The employees work in a Stasi like environment where it's an offence not to be suspicious.

[stevensfo]

Hi GS,

I am a fan because I’ve had nothing but good service.

I really don’t know enough of the detail of your issue but can’t you approach the FSA …

I do realise that you’re having a dreadful experience but most firms have problems. Some years ago I had an account frozen by one of the big banks - it took forever to sort it out and there was never an explanation except that the account had been flagged. No apology, nothing.

Later I was involved in a regulated profession (legal services) and discovered what a horrendous mess suspected money laundering creates. The firm is not allowed to tell you anything about the cause of the flag while it makes enquiries - it really is a mess. I don’t know enough of the financial services AML regs but they may have no choice about freezing the account.

They may have implemented their regulatory compliance badly but they may be doing things pretty ok.

I’m not convinced by the link you gave as it’s only those who feel or are hard done by who complain …

I really do wish you every success in getting this sorted out but I’d still, happily, recommend them to friends and family. I have no experience of using them for business transfers.

Best wishes, Steve

I am a fan because I’ve had nothing but good service.

So far, me too, but I was saying the same thing about Revolut last year when suddenly, my account was frozen when I tried to transfer 200 quid to our son. The online chat was a joke. Different person each hour. Terrible English. Finally I worked out that all they wanted was an I.D. document, even though the original request was for something else. I don't keep my passport at work! By the way, they already had the I.D. so I reckon this was a random computerised check.

So the next day I sent a photo or pdf (can't remember) to them, together with a detailed complaint, mentioning the Lithuanian police, the FCA, British police, potential fraud by Revolut etc, reminding them about their efforts to secure a Banking licence. I received a grovelling apology.

But the thing is, another EMI/Fintech/Neobank also requested a document from me, very politely and giving me two months to supply it.

This business of suddenly freezing an account for what is probably a random check is just crazy!

Steve

[GoSeigen]

But the thing is, another EMI/Fintech/Neobank also requested a document from me, very politely and giving me two months to supply it.

This business of suddenly freezing an account for what is probably a random check is just crazy!

Exactly. I'd have no objection to a polite request for documentation when I log in, or a refusal to accept further funds pending these checks, but to take the customer's money and then immediately freeze it is ridiculously provocative and suicidal IMO for any business that makes a habit of it.

Example: I manage a hospitality business. We routinely demand ID but BEFORE the customer has paid. If we took payment, then demanded the ID, then refused them entry and told the customer we'd retain their funds for an unspecified period until we were happy with their ID but refused to tell them what was wrong with the ID already provided I doubt our business would last a week. I doubt I would last a week for that matter!!


Something serious has gone wrong at Wise. I find it hard to believe it might be a simple IT issue or business process problem -- they would have fixed it by now with all the extremely irate customers. I suspect a more deep-seated problem and therefore, sadly, I am unable to use this business any more or recommend it to anyone else. It's not a red flag, it's an unsolicited smack in the teeth.


GS
EDIT: Will just add that I think Wise need to send out a grovelling apologetic email to all customers affected, possibly adding some sort of gratuity for their trouble, and/or issue a press release explaining how they will prevent repetition of the problem in future. Short of this I can't see myself taking the risk of using them again.

[Steveam]

Without probing but GS says to pay school fees and later to pay staff costs … the problem for WISE maybe a regulatory issue. If something looks suspicious WISE may well have to make an AML report and are not allowed to tell the customer that they’ve done so but are also not allowed to continue providing the “banking” service until they get the all clear. I did wonder whether GS was using a personal account for business purposes which might be a breach of the terms.

I’m extrapolating this from my experience on the Solicitor’s Disciplinary Tribunal but I sat on a case where a client had some suspicious activity and the solicitor raised an AML report but allowed the client to withdraw funds and was at fault as they should have frozen the account until further checks were completed. The solicitor’s defence was essentially that freezing the account would have alerted the client to the report - this was not accepted. It may well be different in financial services regulation but these are the sort of problems that regulated firms face. They have to do the checks and in the meantime they have to make sure they’re not complicit in money laundering. What they can’t do is tell the client that they have raised an AML.

I do hope this all gets sorted for GS. I transferred money to an account in my name in Thailand this morning and it was quick and efficient and low cost but I’m not doing anything complicated (or suspicious).

I wonder if WISE are gearing up to apply for a banking licence or something similar and whether this may have led to tightening of their checks. As I mentioned above they’ve recently been fined by a foreign government for slack procedures.

Best wishes,

Steve

[BullDog]

It's a shame to hear (Transfer) Wise are having issues. I used them for personal and business FX transactions for a couple of years. They were very good indeed. My experience with Revolut on the other hand, was terrible.

[jaizan]

I checked this site after hearing a friend is having similar problems, with Wise refusing to accept his proof of income.

He is also finding their customer service to be useless.

I have two questions:

1 Does anyone know the e-mail addresses or telephone numbers of the Wise Directors so the matter can be escalated ? The other option is to write to them by post, but that seems a little slow.

2 Which other providers have charges which are competitive with Wise ? I'm typically paying something in the 0.5~0.65% range when using Wise. This is far cheaper than the services I was using before discovering Wise.

[stevensfo]

I checked this site after hearing a friend is having similar problems, with Wise refusing to accept his proof of income.

He is also finding their customer service to be useless.

I have two questions:

1 Does anyone know the e-mail addresses or telephone numbers of the Wise Directors so the matter can be escalated ? The other option is to write to them by post, but that seems a little slow.

2 Which other providers have charges which are competitive with Wise ? I'm typically paying something in the 0.5~0.65% range when using Wise. This is far cheaper than the services I was using before discovering Wise.

Good questions.

After the Financial Crisis, I really took 'Due Diligence', KYB (Know your bank), AML etc very seriously and learned an awful lot!! There are many new Fintech/Neobanks/EMIs out there but sometimes it's almost impossible to find the answers to simple questions: Where are they registered, Market Cap, History, CEO and shareholders, illegal issues, Turnover, profit etc. Five years ago, the CEO of Wise, Kristo Kaarmann, was fined 365 000 quid for non-payment of taxes to HMRC.

I know it pales into insignificance when compared to the fines levied on established British banks, but ...caveat emptor.

Be careful out there!

Steve

[goonerbob49]

Wise.com

Mr Kristo Käärmann CEO

Email:' kristo@transferwise.com'

Personal Twitter @kaarmann
Social Media T F

Postal Address E1 6JJM

[GoSeigen]

Today, without any explanation or notification, my transfer with Wise was un-paused and completed successfully.

I have no idea why this happened -- I provided no new documentation. Who knows? Was it my emails to customer services? Was it threatening County Court action? Was it posts on their social media? Was it the public campaigners I contacted and appealed to? It's looking like I will not find out.

I'm relieved not to have lost that money, but I had already written it off and consequently my trust in this company is gone probably never to return. The incident leaves a really nasty taste in the mouth.


Thanks to all for support and pointers to background information.


GS