Lloyds withdrawing paper statments

[stacker512]

A flash drive in a folder marked "financial records". An unencrypted drive on your PC. A read only folder on the cloud with access to anyone with the link, and the link provided to your executor.

People on r/datahoarder would likely say that you should never use flash drives for important storage (high failure rates?).

This reminds me to put my finance data onto my small server. A ZFS cluster of 4 hard drives in RAIDZ-2 that can take 2 drive failure before data is lost. And I need to get onto a cloud storage too.

[GeoffF100]

A flash drive in a folder marked "financial records". An unencrypted drive on your PC. A read only folder on the cloud with access to anyone with the link, and the link provided to your executor.

People on r/datahoarder would likely say that you should never use flash drives for important storage (high failure rates?).

This reminds me to put my finance data onto my small server. A ZFS cluster of 4 hard drives in RAIDZ-2 that can take 2 drive failure before data is lost. And I need to get onto a cloud storage too.

The flash drive will almost certainly works and has a label attached to it saying that there is a more up to date version on my PC. They will not be able to log in, but a professional will be able to use a live USB to read my files. I will have to get round to setting up the cloud storage folder. That will fail only if Microsoft/Google scrubs my data. That happens to some people.

[stacker512]

People on r/datahoarder would likely say that you should never use flash drives for important storage (high failure rates?).

This reminds me to put my finance data onto my small server. A ZFS cluster of 4 hard drives in RAIDZ-2 that can take 2 drive failure before data is lost. And I need to get onto a cloud storage too.

The flash drive will almost certainly works and has a label attached to it saying that there is a more up to date version on my PC. They will not be able to log in, but a professional will be able to use a live USB to read my files. I will have to get round to setting up the cloud storage folder. That will fail only if Microsoft/Google scrubs my data. That happens to some people.

I still wouldn't trust flash drives for long-term storage of important data:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/co ... liability/

The main issue you will find will be IOPS and how long the USB can read/write before dying or starting to give errors, as they're not the most reliable "long term".

industry consensu based on significant amounts of anecdotal evidence suggests, that USB thumb drives are quite unreliable and made using the absolute cheapest available flash memory.

Another thread (which has expletives in the title, so won't post here) says:

in my experience they should always be treated as a supplemental/convenient way to transport some data not the main storage location.

Because they are all low quality and unreliable.

Thumb drives are made with cheap flash and are meant to be used to transfer data between computers, not to store data for long periods.

People want cheap stuff so manufacturers oblige, the majority of USB flash drives are indeed cheap junk. Very slow to write, built cheaply so it falls apart. Made with the NAND that was no good for anything else. Then the same people who sorted by price and bought the cheapest one get mad that it's junk and leave a bad review.
There are good flash drives but it's 5% of the market or less.

Some more interesting discussion (especially how the electric charge leaks over time):
https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/co ... _lifespan/

[GeoffF100]

I have not had any problems with SanDisk or Samsung. Some of my flash drives are still going strong after 20 years. I would not use them as my only back up, but they are fine if you also have a cloud back up and a local hard disk back up. Similarly with CDs and DVDs. I have twenty years old CDs and DVDs that work reliably despite what the web articles say.

[GeoffF100]

Actually, on reflection my drives are more like 10 years old. Nonetheless, they have done much better than some of the articles suggest.

[Lootman]

Actually, on reflection my drives are more like 10 years old. Nonetheless, they have done much better than some of the articles suggest.

No doubt but all these debates and disagreements about how reliable and durable these electronic forms of storage are just goes to show why many of us prefer the option of paper.

[stacker512]

Actually, on reflection my drives are more like 10 years old. Nonetheless, they have done much better than some of the articles suggest.

No doubt but all these debates and disagreements about how reliable and durable these electronic forms of storage are just goes to show why many of us prefer the option of paper.

However, paper can get wet, get mould, catch fire, get misplaced, and there's only one copy of it.
Perhaps it's the lack of understanding of electronic forms that motivates older folk to prefer paper

[Lootman]

No doubt but all these debates and disagreements about how reliable and durable these electronic forms of storage are just goes to show why many of us prefer the option of paper.

However, paper can get wet, get mould, catch fire, get misplaced, and there's only one copy of it. Perhaps it's the lack of understanding of electronic forms that motivates older folk to prefer paper

Paper records can be photocopied and kept in more than one location. They can be kept in a fireproof safe, and so on.

But nobody is arguing that you cannot choose an electronic option. The request is merely that paper continue to be an option for those who prefer it, for whatever reason.

[GeoffF100]

However, paper can get wet, get mould, catch fire, get misplaced, and there's only one copy of it. Perhaps it's the lack of understanding of electronic forms that motivates older folk to prefer paper

Paper records can be photocopied and kept in more than one location. They can be kept in a fireproof safe, and so on.

But nobody is arguing that you cannot choose an electronic option. The request is merely that paper continue to be an option for those who prefer it, for whatever reason.

That is fair enough, if you pay for it. Some banks already charge for paper statements.

[BBLSP1]

Paper records can be photocopied and kept in more than one location. They can be kept in a fireproof safe, and so on.

But nobody is arguing that you cannot choose an electronic option. The request is merely that paper continue to be an option for those who prefer it, for whatever reason.

That is fair enough, if you pay for it. Some banks already charge for paper statements.

I'm happy to 'pay' what I've always paid for a paper statement.

[dealtn]

That is fair enough, if you pay for it. Some banks already charge for paper statements.

I'm happy to 'pay' what I've always paid for a paper statement.

And if banks aren't prepared to "sell" it what what it was traditionally sold for?

In general I think people should be happy to pay for the value they derive from a product and shouldn't anchor around a price they have always paid for it. Yet with banking most insist on "free" banking, "free" cash withdrawals, "free" counter service, "free" statements etc.

[BBLSP1]

I'm happy to 'pay' what I've always paid for a paper statement.

And if banks aren't prepared to "sell" it what what it was traditionally sold for?

In general I think people should be happy to pay for the value they derive from a product and shouldn't anchor around a price they have always paid for it. Yet with banking most insist on "free" banking, "free" cash withdrawals, "free" counter service, "free" statements etc.

With the closure of local branches, I'm already paying the same as before for less value.

How come it was all so possible in the preceding decades?

[Lootman]

I'm happy to 'pay' what I've always paid for a paper statement.

And if banks aren't prepared to "sell" it what what it was traditionally sold for?

In general I think people should be happy to pay for the value they derive from a product and shouldn't anchor around a price they have always paid for it. Yet with banking most insist on "free" banking, "free" cash withdrawals, "free" counter service, "free" statements etc.

Banking is not free of course. My bank pays no interest on my current account balance. And in return for that de facto "payment", I expect branch services and paper statements to be included.

[GeoffF100]

And if banks aren't prepared to "sell" it what what it was traditionally sold for?

In general I think people should be happy to pay for the value they derive from a product and shouldn't anchor around a price they have always paid for it. Yet with banking most insist on "free" banking, "free" cash withdrawals, "free" counter service, "free" statements etc.

Banking is not free of course. My bank pays no interest on my current account balance. And in return for that de facto "payment", I expect branch services and paper statements to be included.

I pay £2 per month for my Santander Lite account and receive £5+ per month cashback. The profit I make there is more than I would receive my balance from a top paying instant access account. Santander would send me free statements if I requested them. Branch service? Forget it, even in a big city, but I can make £100K Faster Payments over the phone, which is more than can be said for the other big banks. I am being subsidised by others who do not manage their affairs so efficiently.

[BobGe]

There is a report in the Telegraph today that the company that produces the statements is close to collapse which is why various banks are going to be unable to send out statements; they (the banks) are therefore taking steps to rationalise the number of statements being sent out so that demand can be scaled down to meet supply. Apparently 1,000 employees' jobs are at risk.

Surely if there was continuing high demand for paper bills and statements then the company that produces them would not find themselves in this parlous state. It would seem the duty of all customers and account holders to be supportive by continuing to request as many paper documents as possible. This will also assist Royal Mail getting letter volumes back up towards the annual 20bn from the lowly 7bn it has become and thus enable 6 days per week post deliveries to be maintained, as well as a low cost 2nd class letter postage stamp.

It further serves to reverse the trend whereby customers of banks and similar organisations are being made to become unpaid 'lackeys' by being forced to carry out tasks for which those organisations were previously responsible and obliged to undertake instead of allowing them to get up to all manner of dreadful things, hardly any particularly beneficial in the longer term, whilst sacrificing staff and facilities to the general detriment of ‘good service’ in the sole interest of lining their own pockets.

I therefore propose that paper statements are for the greater good and commend them to this house (and all who sail in her!)

Problem solved.

[Lootman]

There is a report in the Telegraph today that the company that produces the statements is close to collapse which is why various banks are going to be unable to send out statements; they (the banks) are therefore taking steps to rationalise the number of statements being sent out so that demand can be scaled down to meet supply. Apparently 1,000 employees' jobs are at risk.

Surely if there was continuing high demand for paper bills and statements then the company that produces them would not find themselves in this parlous state. It would seem the duty of all customers and account holders to be supportive by continuing to request as many paper documents as possible. This will also assist Royal Mail getting letter volumes back up towards the annual 20bn from the lowly 7bn it has become and thus enable 6 days per week post deliveries to be maintained, as well as a low cost 2nd class letter postage stamp.

It further serves to reverse the trend whereby customers of banks and similar organisations are being made to become unpaid 'lackeys' by being forced to carry out tasks for which those organisations were previously responsible and obliged to undertake instead of allowing them to get up to all manner of dreadful things, hardly any particularly beneficial in the longer term, whilst sacrificing staff and facilities to the general detriment of ‘good service’ in the sole interest of lining their own pockets.

I therefore propose that paper statements are for the greater good and commend them to this house (and all who sail in her!)

Problem solved.

More than once, when I have been in my bank branch asking for service, upon being told that I could instead "use the app" or "go online", I have responded that I care too much about their continued employment to do such a thing.

I get a bit of a blank response, but then they always help me anyway. I guess they are told to say that to everyone who enters the branch, thereby undermining their job security and hastening their departure.

[dealtn]

There is a report in the Telegraph today that the company that produces the statements is close to collapse which is why various banks are going to be unable to send out statements; they (the banks) are therefore taking steps to rationalise the number of statements being sent out so that demand can be scaled down to meet supply. Apparently 1,000 employees' jobs are at risk.

Surely if there was continuing high demand for paper bills and statements then the company that produces them would not find themselves in this parlous state. It would seem the duty of all customers and account holders to be supportive by continuing to request as many paper documents as possible. This will also assist Royal Mail getting letter volumes back up towards the annual 20bn from the lowly 7bn it has become and thus enable 6 days per week post deliveries to be maintained, as well as a low cost 2nd class letter postage stamp.

It further serves to reverse the trend whereby customers of banks and similar organisations are being made to become unpaid 'lackeys' by being forced to carry out tasks for which those organisations were previously responsible and obliged to undertake instead of allowing them to get up to all manner of dreadful things, hardly any particularly beneficial in the longer term, whilst sacrificing staff and facilities to the general detriment of ‘good service’ in the sole interest of lining their own pockets.

I therefore propose that paper statements are for the greater good and commend them to this house (and all who sail in her!)

Problem solved.

Fine. Be prepared to pay the cost of doing so and indeed those things can happen.

[Lootman]

It further serves to reverse the trend whereby customers of banks and similar organisations are being made to become unpaid 'lackeys' by being forced to carry out tasks for which those organisations were previously responsible and obliged to undertake instead of allowing them to get up to all manner of dreadful things, hardly any particularly beneficial in the longer term, whilst sacrificing staff and facilities to the general detriment of ‘good service’ in the sole interest of lining their own pockets.

I therefore propose that paper statements are for the greater good and commend them to this house (and all who sail in her!)

Problem solved.

Fine. Be prepared to pay the cost of doing so and indeed those things can happen.

Not sure if a bank could get away with charging for paper statements.

If they tried then a valid response might be for customers to make personal visits to their bank branch asking for a staff member to print off their current statement each month.

Unless of course you also propose that bank branch staff charge people for helping them?

[JohnB]

Lloyds tried to stop sending paper statements again, even after I rang them on Mum's behalf and negotiated them. So I went on their app, and got this message from their support team on chat.

"

Hi, thanks for reaching out. I'm sorry if you haven't yet receive your request for a paper statement. May I know when did you make the call for your request? Did you also advised if yoru preferences will be change for paper statement?

Someone else responded 4 hours later, claimed to have made the change, but could find no evidence of the phone call. I'm going to get Mum to switch to a bank that employs staff who actually have a grasp of English.

[BobGe]

Fine. Be prepared to pay the cost of doing so and indeed those things can happen.

Speaking for my situation I already pay more than the cost of doing so and banks earn quite nicely from my accounts.