RBS scam/fraud/identity theft

[1nvest]

Some weeks back my son received a letter from RBS saying his account was in debt and to credit it, as he doesn't have a bank account with RBS the letter was assumed to be a scam probe and ignored. Today he received another letter saying the account was £571 in debt and that he should phone the bank or credit the account or otherwise continue to have additional costs added. Looking up the sort code supplied on the letter indicated that is for a RBS bank in Cavendish/London, a area he is totally unfamiliar with. Checking the contact phone number provided on the letter indicated that as a potential scam phone line with past flags associated with RBS.

On looking up and phoning RBS fraud line it would seem that a account was opened in his name, using his address, and some money seemingly spent out of that to take the account into debt. Being the weekend now the advisor said someone from RBS would contact him at some point during the next working week. When asked whether the matter should be reported to the police the agent said not to at this time - wait and speak to their fraud agent.

From personal experience to open bank accounts nowadays near takes giving blood with the checks made/required, photo id, passport, driving licence, utility bills etc. so we find it surprising that someone has seemingly stolen his identity, opened a account and run that account into debt without even a single former letter to the home address. I can't see how any cards or letters posted to the home address might have been intercepted, there's no common area mail box stack where others could potentially intercept mail, just a regular typical terraced house with its own individual drop through front door letter box more often when someone is at home, more often by a regular postman. We don't know the type of account opened, but guess that it must be a credit card of some sort as otherwise a debit card would presumably have been blocked from going into debt.

The fraud team no doubt have to make assessment/judgement that it isn't a case of someone having opened a account, run it into debt and then claimed it wasn't them that did so. I guess that the photo and/or signature used to open the account would clarify that wasn't the case. The agent did suggest registering with cifas.org.uk but what additional measures would be appropriate/wise? A bewildering concern is that of not only having his name/address and other details 'out there' - but that of postal mail interception/redirection that presumably must have occurred.

[GeoffF100]

Banks often open accounts with alarmingly little ID, and do not necessarily send snail mail. They will not want to spend a fortune on checks to reduce the chance that a £571 debt will turn bad.

CIFAS protective registration should ensure that there are extra checks when accounts are opened, but it will also make it more difficult for your son to open accounts.

[Mike4]

Opening accounts with the challenger banks is frighteningly quick and easy. Takes about ten minutes and requires a smart phone capable of recording a video of you saying your name and sending it, using the bank's App.

I've noticed my RBS accounts now use face recognition for authorising certain transactions, so possibly they now allow accounts to be opened using similar methods.

Not sure if any of that helps with the OP though.

[DrFfybes]

My experience of fraudulatn RBS transactions is they sorted it pretty quickly.

I would urge them to set up a clearscore alert - OK you get monthly emails trying to sell you products to 'improve' your credit score, but they also alert you if anything happens such as credit searches, electoral roll updates, etc.

Paul

[clissold345]

...
A bewildering concern is that of not only having his name/address and other details 'out there' - but that of postal mail interception/redirection that presumably must have occurred.

When RBS contact your son they will hopefully give him advice on what steps (if any) he needs to take to protect his identity.

[the0ni0nking]

A bewildering concern is that of not only having his name/address and other details 'out there' - but that of postal mail interception/redirection that presumably must have occurred.

I doubt there's any need for any mail interception anymore - it's quite possible to open accounts in minutes and many accounts nowadays don't even provide a physical card unless you pay a fee for it (or if not a fee for the actual card; a delivery fee to receive it).

Note - my experience of this is with current accounts and it's possible that in this particular case it's a credit card but I'd suspect similar applies. Admittedly, I've not applied for a credit card for a good few years and only have 1!

And while mail could be intercepted, it'd seem more likely that the fraudster would spend away on the card (assuming it's approved there and then online and available immediately to put in Google Wallet etc) before any letters even get received by the victim.

Obviously, at this stage only RBS know what process/verification was done on this particular application so until they provide further info to an extent we're all guessing a bit.

[stevensfo]

Some weeks back my son received a letter from RBS saying his account was in debt and to credit it, as he doesn't have a bank account with RBS the letter was assumed to be a scam probe and ignored. Today he received another letter saying the account was £571 in debt and that he should phone the bank or credit the account or otherwise continue to have additional costs added. Looking up the sort code supplied on the letter indicated that is for a RBS bank in Cavendish/London, a area he is totally unfamiliar with. Checking the contact phone number provided on the letter indicated that as a potential scam phone line with past flags associated with RBS.

On looking up and phoning RBS fraud line it would seem that a account was opened in his name, using his address, and some money seemingly spent out of that to take the account into debt. Being the weekend now the advisor said someone from RBS would contact him at some point during the next working week. When asked whether the matter should be reported to the police the agent said not to at this time - wait and speak to their fraud agent.

From personal experience to open bank accounts nowadays near takes giving blood with the checks made/required, photo id, passport, driving licence, utility bills etc. so we find it surprising that someone has seemingly stolen his identity, opened a account and run that account into debt without even a single former letter to the home address. I can't see how any cards or letters posted to the home address might have been intercepted, there's no common area mail box stack where others could potentially intercept mail, just a regular typical terraced house with its own individual drop through front door letter box more often when someone is at home, more often by a regular postman. We don't know the type of account opened, but guess that it must be a credit card of some sort as otherwise a debit card would presumably have been blocked from going into debt.

The fraud team no doubt have to make assessment/judgement that it isn't a case of someone having opened a account, run it into debt and then claimed it wasn't them that did so. I guess that the photo and/or signature used to open the account would clarify that wasn't the case. The agent did suggest registering with cifas.org.uk but what additional measures would be appropriate/wise? A bewildering concern is that of not only having his name/address and other details 'out there' - but that of postal mail interception/redirection that presumably must have occurred.

When asked whether the matter should be reported to the police the agent said not to at this time - wait and speak to their fraud agent.

That would send alarm bells ringing immediately. Contacting the police would at the top of my list. This is fraud, a criminal offence. I wonder if the bank employee would be willing to put his advice into writing?

Otherwise, if it all backfires, the bank can ask "Well, why didn't you report it to the police immediately?"

Steve

[stevensfo]

Opening accounts with the challenger banks is frighteningly quick and easy. Takes about ten minutes and requires a smart phone capable of recording a video of you saying your name and sending it, using the bank's App.

I've noticed my RBS accounts now use face recognition for authorising certain transactions, so possibly they now allow accounts to be opened using similar methods.

Not sure if any of that helps with the OP though.

It seems quick and easy, but every time I open an account with one of the new banks, they are very fussy about getting the hologram into the photo of the passport. When taking a selfie, it can take ages to get it right. They also have an annoying habit of repeating requests for ID checks every few years. Revolut are good at this, having p*ssed me off plenty of times with requests for documents they already have, and with an online help that employs either AI or people whose mother tongue is definitely not English.

Though despite all this their card/app is brilliant and I'd take them over Nationwide or Barclays any day!

Steve

[Mike4]

Opening accounts with the challenger banks is frighteningly quick and easy. Takes about ten minutes and requires a smart phone capable of recording a video of you saying your name and sending it, using the bank's App.

I've noticed my RBS accounts now use face recognition for authorising certain transactions, so possibly they now allow accounts to be opened using similar methods.

Not sure if any of that helps with the OP though.

It seems quick and easy, but every time I open an account with one of the new banks, they are very fussy about getting the hologram into the photo of the passport. When taking a selfie, it can take ages to get it right. They also have an annoying habit of repeating requests for ID checks every few years. Revolut are good at this, having p*ssed me off plenty of times with requests for documents they already have, and with an online help that employs either AI or people whose mother tongue is definitely not English.

Though despite all this their card/app is brilliant and I'd take them over Nationwide or Barclays any day!

Steve

I have accounts with Monzo and Starling, both of which were a breeze to open one Sunday morning lazing in bed on my boat. I've experienced none of the problems you describe.

[didds]

I have accounts with Monzo and Starling, both of which were a breeze to open one Sunday morning lazing in bed on my boat. I've experienced none of the problems you describe.

my worst experience of opening an account was with Chase

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=34111&p=494698&hilit=chase#p494417

Then not that long after finally succeeding to do so

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=37844&p=592225&hilit=chase#p592225

wot a palaver!

[Mike4]

I have accounts with Monzo and Starling, both of which were a breeze to open one Sunday morning lazing in bed on my boat. I've experienced none of the problems you describe.

my worst experience of opening an account was with Chase

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=34111&p=494698&hilit=chase#p494417

Then not that long after finally succeeding to do so

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=37844&p=592225&hilit=chase#p592225

wot a palaver!

But surely Chase is a dinosaur bank paying lip service to the 'modern way'.

Starling, Monzo et al accept new clients only via their phone app so it they made it painful, they'd fail in a heartbeat.

[Lootman]

Chase is a dinosaur bank paying lip service to the 'modern way'.

Starling, Monzo et al accept new clients only via their phone app so it they made it painful, they'd fail in a heartbeat.

Chase is probably the number one bank on the planet. But in the UK it has no branch presence. To my mind that makes them no better than Monzo etc.

If I have a problem with my bank I want to be able to visit them personally and basically intimidate an actual employee face-to-face. As opposed to being ignored online or put on hold on the phone.

[Mike4]

Chase is a dinosaur bank paying lip service to the 'modern way'.

Starling, Monzo et al accept new clients only via their phone app so it they made it painful, they'd fail in a heartbeat.

Chase is probably the number one bank on the planet. But in the UK it has no branch presence. To my mind that makes them no better than Monzo etc.

If I have a problem with my bank I want to be able to visit them personally and basically intimidate an actual employee face-to-face. As opposed to being ignored online or put on hold on the phone.

The one time I had a problem with Starling I called the helpline, and to my amazement the phone was answered by an intelligent human bean who actually listened to my problem, understood it and gave me an immediate solution!

May have been a fluke....

[GeoffF100]

[
The one time I had a problem with Starling I called the helpline, and to my amazement the phone was answered by an intelligent human bean who actually listened to my problem, understood it and gave me an immediate solution!

May have been a fluke....

Probably was. Human beans are hard to find.

[Mike4]

[
The one time I had a problem with Starling I called the helpline, and to my amazement the phone was answered by an intelligent human bean who actually listened to my problem, understood it and gave me an immediate solution!

May have been a fluke....

Probably was. Human beans are hard to find.

Intelligent ones are!

[dealtn]

Chase is a dinosaur bank paying lip service to the 'modern way'.

Starling, Monzo et al accept new clients only via their phone app so it they made it painful, they'd fail in a heartbeat.

Chase is probably the number one bank on the planet. But in the UK it has no branch presence. To my mind that makes them no better than Monzo etc.

If I have a problem with my bank I want to be able to visit them personally and basically intimidate an actual employee face-to-face. As opposed to being ignored online or put on hold on the phone.

When I worked in a bank if anybody intimidated my staff I learnt enough about them not to want them as a customer. That's deplorable behaviour and I hope you, and others, face the consequences.

[servodude]

Chase is probably the number one bank on the planet. But in the UK it has no branch presence. To my mind that makes them no better than Monzo etc.

If I have a problem with my bank I want to be able to visit them personally and basically intimidate an actual employee face-to-face. As opposed to being ignored online or put on hold on the phone.

When I worked in a bank if anybody intimidated my staff I learnt enough about them not to want them as a customer. That's deplorable behaviour and I hope you, and others, face the consequences.

Not just banks though, there's really no excuse for scummy behaviour towards anyone with a "customer facing" roll
- some folk end up stuck being waiters and the like and the last thing a decent society needs is for them to endure the ire of scrotes with personality issues

[GrahamPlatt]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w172zbjxg33bjw3

28-36’ on identitiy theft.


and https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... im-in-jail

[Lootman]

Chase is probably the number one bank on the planet. But in the UK it has no branch presence. To my mind that makes them no better than Monzo etc.

If I have a problem with my bank I want to be able to visit themto personally and basically intimidate an actual employee face-to-face. As opposed to being ignored online or put on hold on the phone.

When I worked in a bank if anybody intimidated my staff I learnt enough about them not to want them as a customer. That's deplorable behaviour and I hope you, and others, face the consequences.

No, nothing crude, rude or blatant. You can be polite and firm at the same time. Or just play dumb and keep asking questions. There are 101 ways of getting what you want without crossing any line.

It works, and I routinely get better outcomes in person. Typically the managers have more discretion than the underlings, so you have to be willing to ask to talk to their boss. (One time I had to go all the way up to the CEO of Natwest to get satisfaction after every underling and middle manager had declined to fix the error).

But better to train your staff not to make mistakes with other peoples' money in the first place.

[dealtn]

When I worked in a bank if anybody intimidated my staff I learnt enough about them not to want them as a customer. That's deplorable behaviour and I hope you, and others, face the consequences.

No, nothing crude, rude or blatant. You can be polite and firm at the same time. Or just play dumb and keep asking questions. There are 101 ways of getting what you want without crossing any line.

It works, and I routinely get better outcomes in person. Typically the managers have more discretion than the underlings, so you have to be willing to ask to talk to their boss. (One time I had to go all the way up to the CEO of Natwest to get satisfaction after every underling and middle manager had declined to fix the error).

But better to train your staff not to make mistakes with other peoples' money in the first place.

Can I suggest you look up "intimidate" in a dictionary in that case. It isn't the same as asking to talk to a boss. Perhaps you can clarify if you have just been clumsy in describing what you would do, or whether you really think it appropriate to act in a way that harms and belittles someone for no fault of their own.

Bullying and carrying an entitled attitude says a lot more about the person than the victim.