Tenancy Contract to Landlord

[FoolishLemon]

My property management agent seems very reluctant to share the tenancy contract it has signed with the tenant with me. It says it is unusual for the landlord to ask for and have sight of the contract.

Can the experienced landlord's on the here confirm this or otherwise?

Many thanks

FoolishLemon

[Lootman]

As a landlord I rarely used a letting agent but, when I did, I still had to sign the tenancy agreement and therefore saw it and retained a copy. I have never heard of an arrangement where you do not even know what the deal is, and that sounds highly suspect to me.

What does the contract you signed with the agency say?

[DiamondEcho]

IME with agents, they use a standard contract and I've received a copy of that before a property is let. I have added to their template any material peculiarities that derive from my 'senior' long-lease I have on the property. So the AST fully complies with my own long-leaseholder obligations, there are no gaps.
When a tenant has been found, the agent has sent another copy of the draft AST with tenant details/term/rent details added, and asked me to review it. They ask me to sign it and return it, although on occasion when I haven't had a printer/scanner at hand I've given them power of attorney to sign it 'per-pro/pp' on my behalf.

I cannot imagine a situation where my agent would decline to send me a copy of my AST on my property. It seems inconceivable your agent declines to share the contract to which you [and not they] are a party! I'd be wondering what they have to hide...

[Clitheroekid]

My property management agent seems very reluctant to share the tenancy contract it has signed with the tenant with me. It says it is unusual for the landlord to ask for and have sight of the contract.

Can the experienced landlord's on the here confirm this or otherwise?

In over 30 years' experience as a solicitor I have never heard of a letting agent not being willing to let the landlord see the agreement.

In fact it's unusual - and I would personally think undesirable - for an agent to sign the agreement at all, particularly one that's not even been seen by the landlord.

It's difficult to understand their attitude - unless, perhaps, the agreement contains lots of traps for the tenant requiring the tenant to pay charges levied by the agents of which you might not approve.

[JonE]

It's difficult to understand their attitude - unless, perhaps, the agreement contains lots of traps for the tenant requiring the tenant to pay charges levied by the agents of which you might not approve.

Or even that the level of rent payable under the agreement is not the same as that notified to the LL and featuring on remittance advices and statements of account.

If there's a dispute on the agreement then the agent will be quick enough to drop out of the frame and let the tenant and the LL sort it out themselves so it strikes me as bizarre to suggest that "it is unusual for the landlord to ask for and have sight of the contract".

Slightly off-topic but, in my experience, holiday lettings agencies (who drop out of the frame with impressive speed if problems arise) don't usually volunteer to disclose the contracts they use but it's easy enough when appointing them to demand sight of their standard contract and to give them written instructions that any alteration or amendment must be approved in advance by you as principal before any altered version is offered to punters. I don't recollect ever using a residential lettings agent (except as a tenant) so can't speak from direct experience in that field but, on the 'know your enemy' basis, this looks to be worth reading:
http://www.letlink.co.uk/2016-01-21-12- ... f-an-agent.

Cheers!

[DiamondEcho]

Or even that the level of rent payable under the agreement is not the same as that notified to the LL and featuring on remittance advices and statements of account.

FWIW this crossed my mind earlier too. Perhaps the OP can clarify what kind of letting they have; the term, is it an AST etc? And whether they have any previous experience with this agent, and/or the basis on which they chose them.

ps - Blue-sky thinking... Cld the LL have unknowngly let the property to the agent, and the agent is sub-letting it for a profit?

[UncleEbenezer]

I've heard a fair few anecdotes from a tenant's point of view of sharp practice (and worse) from agents.

The typical shape of the story is, agent comes down hard and bullying on tenant, sometimes causes real distress. Tenant eventually contacts landlord direct, and landlord is horrified at what's been going on.

One that happened to me once, many years ago. Agent serves me notice at most inconvenient time (contract@work has three months to run, so I can't look for a new normal tenancy). Take a lot of trouble to find a less-than-satisfactory solution. Then I learn the landlord isn't happy either. He's armed forces and has been letting his cottage while serving overseas. His timetable for return would actually have fitted well with my staying the additional three months, and of course he'd have preferred a good tenant and three more months rent rather than an empty cottage.

Some of the stories floating around are of much worse than that from the agents.

[UncleEbenezer]

ps - Blue-sky thinking... Cld the LL have unknowngly let the property to the agent, and the agent is sub-letting it for a profit?

Aha! As in, re-letting Rachmann-style to half a dozen immigrants per small room?

[Arborbridge]

I would say it is highly unusual, and highly suspicious, that an agent would not allow an LL to see the contract. The agent is acting on your behalf, and you have every right to see what he is agreeing to in your name. You need to check your agreement with the agent, but also need to be tough on this one.

I often do not sign the AST - the agent does it as my proxy - but I always have a copy, though usually have to ask for it. I think that's laziness rather than refusal by the agent.

No, there's something altogether fishy here, preposterous. You can't be expected to be party to a contract which you are not allowed to see - would that even be legally enforceable? I'd suggest you get shot of that agent just as soon as you can and don't be pushed around my someone who is supposed to have your interests at heart..


Arb.

[FoolishLemon]

Firstly let me thank you all for your Foolish replies.

What does the contract you signed with the agency say?

It is silent on the providing a copy of the AST to the Landlord. It states "To prepare and Issue Assured Short-hold Tenancy Agreement"

FWIW this crossed my mind earlier too. Perhaps the OP can clarify what kind of letting they have; the term, is it an AST etc?

The agreement with the Agent says AST will be used.

And whether they have any previous experience with this agent, and/or the basis on which they chose them.

This is where I am pleased this is anonymous - I was walking down our local high street, on a UK visit (I live overseas), thinking I really ought to own a property. I came across a small lettings agency and got chatting. Four years forward I have three and the agency continues to manage them. I have no reason to believe there are Machiavellian activities going on.

I often do not sign the AST - the agent does it as my proxy - but I always have a copy, though usually have to ask for it. I think that's laziness rather than refusal by the agent.

I think this is the crux of it. Its a small agency. I think I will just have to be a bit more insistent! At least I know now that seasoned landlords would expect a copy.

Many thanks

FoolishLemon

[Arborbridge]

I think I will just have to be a bit more insistent!

Please let us know how you get on and whether the problem is resolved.

Arb.

[monabri]

You need a new agent!