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Boiler Servicing

Making your money go further
GeoffF100
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Boiler Servicing

#461699

Postby GeoffF100 » November 28th, 2021, 9:01 pm

Here is a Which? article which presents some statistics on the probability of a boiler failing against the frequency of servicing:

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2021/09/wh ... -serviced/

The statistics suggest that annual servicing is worthwhile. The boilers were all up 6 years old, whereas mine is 11 years old. Perhaps servicing is more important for an old boiler. My boiler was serviced at nominal cost by Worcester Bosch when it needed a new fan unit in the summer. Otherwise, I have been very lax with servicing. The article implies that any Gas Safe engineer can do the service. Worcester Bosch will do it too, as no doubt will the likes of British Gas, but I expect they are more expensive. What is people's experience?

tacpot12
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Re: Boiler Servicing

#461711

Postby tacpot12 » November 28th, 2021, 10:15 pm

My experience is that modern boilers need servicing, and I get mine done by the local firm that installed my boiler at home. It's just two years old (and not a Worcester Bosch one). I paid £65 to get it serviced recently. The same firm also services the 16 year old boiler in the flat that I let out.

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Re: Boiler Servicing

#461728

Postby vrdiver » November 28th, 2021, 11:17 pm

Perhaps I'm an outlier, but our boiler was installed in 1994 and last serviced in 1997, when the engineer told me to just keep an eye on the colour of the pilot light flame and if it changed, then it was due a service...

So far so good.

I keep looking to replace it, but each time I do the calculations, I don't see any real savings after adding in an annual service for the new (more complicated condensing-type) boiler. With the pressure (apparently) on to switch to heat pumps, I may go straight to one of those rather than invest in a new boiler...

VRD

tjh290633
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Re: Boiler Servicing

#461729

Postby tjh290633 » November 28th, 2021, 11:29 pm

I only have a gas fitter to look at my boiler if it has a problem. New in 1996, it has been seen to twice, each time for a new circuit board. There is nothing in it that needs servicing. It is money for old rope for British Gas and others.

TJH

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Re: Boiler Servicing

#461736

Postby Dod101 » November 29th, 2021, 6:52 am

I think it is foolish not to have your boiler serviced annually. It is like saying, I have paid house insurance for the last 30 years and not a single claim. What a waste of money! Of course your boiler will probably run with no problems without one but the whole idea is to pick up any problems early and whilst I do not always go along with Which articles I think in this case they are correct. For the cost of £100 or so I would not do without it.

Dod

OldPlodder

Re: Boiler Servicing

#461743

Postby OldPlodder » November 29th, 2021, 8:29 am

Our experience was basically the opposite to TJH.

In our previous large, (but rubbish, although in a superb location) house, we had a contract with Domestic and General for our boiler and radiators, quite expensive.

But over the twenty years it was worth every penny, because by the time we sold the house last year, the whole installation was like Trigger’s broom, most parts having been replaced a few times over.

In our new flat, downsizing, we have yet to decide how to proceed, no rush all still under full warranty at the mo. (And the installation is small and uncomplicated, the previous system was very large and complex.)

Plodder

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Re: Boiler Servicing

#461744

Postby MrFoolish » November 29th, 2021, 8:33 am

A service is unlikely to prevent parts from breaking so I'm dubious about that survey. Perhaps some parts got replaced during the service (at extra cost) and those responding forgot about this. You are more likely to remember a breakdown than some repair at the time of the survey.

I've had my boiler breakdown immediately after a service. If it ain't broke, don't fix it? But then you are told the part must have been on its last legs anyway.

I suppose the main benefits of a service are the gas check and getting the heat exchanger cleaned.

But I was told by one of the authorised service engineers for my boiler that he doesn't bother to service his own boiler.

I suspect there isn't a clear cut answer.

And then there's another question: how often should you get your pipes flushed?

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Re: Boiler Servicing

#461745

Postby mutantpoodle » November 29th, 2021, 8:36 am

OldPlodder wrote:Our experience was basically the opposite to TJH.

In our new flat, downsizing, we have yet to decide how to proceed, no rush all still under full warranty at the mo. (And the installation is small and uncomplicated, the previous system was very large and complex.)

Plodder


I would be very surprised if the guaratee/warranty does not include a condition that bolier is serviced annually

please check just for your peace of mind

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Re: Boiler Servicing

#461768

Postby 88V8 » November 29th, 2021, 10:27 am

In our previous house I installed my own gfch.
That was in 82. We had an extension in 1990, and a larger boiler. Between 1982 and selling in 2012 neither boiler was ever serviced and never went wrong.

In fact the only parts replaced in the whole system over thirty years were two motorised valve actuators.

Modern boilers are too complex. Does the fuel saving really offset the extra servicing/replacement cost and shorter life?
I bet not.

V8

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Re: Boiler Servicing

#461796

Postby BullDog » November 29th, 2021, 11:47 am

MrFoolish wrote:A service is unlikely to prevent parts from breaking so I'm dubious about that survey. Perhaps some parts got replaced during the service (at extra cost) and those responding forgot about this. You are more likely to remember a breakdown than some repair at the time of the survey.

I've had my boiler breakdown immediately after a service. If it ain't broke, don't fix it? But then you are told the part must have been on its last legs anyway.

I suppose the main benefits of a service are the gas check and getting the heat exchanger cleaned.

But I was told by one of the authorised service engineers for my boiler that he doesn't bother to service his own boiler.

I suspect there isn't a clear cut answer.

And then there's another question: how often should you get your pipes flushed?

In bold. The answer is, it depends on how diligent you are with keeping the system clean and dosed with inhibitor. If you are a conscientious with it, the answer is likely to be "never".

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Re: Boiler Servicing

#461798

Postby BullDog » November 29th, 2021, 11:50 am

mutantpoodle wrote:
OldPlodder wrote:Our experience was basically the opposite to TJH.

In our new flat, downsizing, we have yet to decide how to proceed, no rush all still under full warranty at the mo. (And the installation is small and uncomplicated, the previous system was very large and complex.)

Plodder


I would be very surprised if the guaratee/warranty does not include a condition that bolier is serviced annually

please check just for your peace of mind

Highly likely to be the case. Fortunately, we are blessed with a family friend who is a registered installer for several leading boiler brands and we get mates rates for the annual service. Recently, two boilers installed in the family. Both with ten year warranties and both will get an annual service book stamp to keep the warranty going.

GeoffF100
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Re: Boiler Servicing

#461802

Postby GeoffF100 » November 29th, 2021, 11:58 am

The Worcester Bosch guy did a more thorough service than the independent who fitted the boiler. I have looked at the manual. One of the items described involved flushing through with fresh water. I do not remember that ever having been done. The WB guy found a gasket that was nearly burned through.

The service should include a fan pressure test. If I had a service done the previous year, that may have saved me from the boiler failure, which was fortunately in the summer. The moral is read the manual. Make sure that you know what they are supposed to do.

I searched the Gas Safe Register. There is a Gas Safe engineer + electrician down the road from me. Will he know and be practised at all the service steps in the manual for my boiler? I very much doubt it.

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Re: Boiler Servicing

#462534

Postby AF62 » December 2nd, 2021, 9:36 am

GeoffF100 wrote:Here is a Which? article which presents some statistics on the probability of a boiler failing against the frequency of servicing


Except it is the usual useless Which? article that is simply aimed at generating headlines in the press and subscriptions to it's publication.

This was the chart of their results -

Image

What is it missing? Two things -
- What is the age of the boiler for each person in each of the four categories
- What proportion of people fall into each of the four categories

Without those key pieces of information then their chart tells you nothing.

The survey says it was for people who bought a boiler in the last 6 years, but Which? chose not to include the detail of the ages of the boiler in each servicing period group.

Similarly they chose not to include how many people fell into each category. Out of the 8,001 people surveyed, did 7,997 fall in the first group of 'once a year' (I would envisage Which? subscribers to fall into the nervous 'must get it serviced Mabel' type of consumer) and 1 person each into the other three groups? Who knows - well Which? obviously do, but they are not saying.

So why didn't they include these key pieces of information? Would perhaps it be because it would spoil the story if they did...

Of course those who have new boilers, which are less likely to break down, are very likely to have them serviced annually to keep the guarantee / warranty valid.

It is also very likely that a higher proportion of those who have boilers past the guarantee / warranty period and have older boilers, which are more likely to break down, don't get the boiler serviced as frequently.

So without the detail that Which? have deliberately excluded from this piece, then the only conclusion can be that new things don't break down as frequently as old things do - well what a shock. Is the next Which? story about the faith of the Pope and the defecation habits of bears.

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Re: Boiler Servicing

#462541

Postby monabri » December 2nd, 2021, 9:47 am

Just looking at the graph, the population adds up to more than 100%.

GeoffF100
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Re: Boiler Servicing

#462560

Postby GeoffF100 » December 2nd, 2021, 10:34 am

monabri wrote:Just looking at the graph, the population adds up to more than 100%.

The percentages are of the people in each group, not the total population. AF62 seems to have made the same mistake.

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Re: Boiler Servicing

#462586

Postby monabri » December 2nd, 2021, 11:28 am

GeoffF100 wrote:
monabri wrote:Just looking at the graph, the population adds up to more than 100%.

The percentages are of the people in each group, not the total population. AF62 seems to have made the same mistake.



I just looked at the graph !

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Re: Boiler Servicing

#462599

Postby DrFfybes » December 2nd, 2021, 12:10 pm

Great Graph.

Service your boiler annually, it breaks down half as often as if you service it every 5 years. Does a repair cost more or less than 4 annual services?

Our previous 2006 boiler had one failure in 14 years, the expansion vessel. However at pretty much every annual service there was something needed replacing, or he was back a week later to replace something he'd upset dismantling and remantling it.

Our current Glowworm hideaway from the mid 80s failed last Jan. Local chap spent a while replacing bodged and stripped fixings, old seals, and a new thermocouple. Reckoned it had been apart and back together several times with none of the worn bits being replaced as the Service wouldn't cover the bits.

Fixings, connections, seals, they are all mechanical. The more you disturb them, the more they wear, and the higher a chance of them being crossthreaded, overtightened, stripped, misaligned, etc. The opposite is that if you don't undo them every year, you'll struggle to get the buggers out when you do need to get in.

Paul

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Re: Boiler Servicing

#462644

Postby AF62 » December 2nd, 2021, 2:29 pm

GeoffF100 wrote:
monabri wrote:Just looking at the graph, the population adds up to more than 100%.

The percentages are of the people in each group, not the total population. AF62 seems to have made the same mistake.


No I didn't make that mistake.

The percentages are clearly the percentage of *that* group who needed to have their boiler repaired. The issue is that Which?, for whatever reason, decided not to say *how many* people out of the 8,001 were in each group.

Thus you don't know if there were only 5 people in the 'once every 3-5 year' group and 3 of them needed a repair, or whether there were 2,000 and 1,200 needed a repair.

And more importantly Which?, for whatever reason, decided not to say what the age (or average age) of the boiler was in each group. If the 'once every 3-5 year' group was exclusively made up of 6 year old boilers and the 'once every year' group was made up of boilers less than two or three years old and still in warranty, then servicing is not the relevant factor; age of the boiler is.

If Which? were a decent research organisation then even if they didn't want to spoil the graphics with complexities, they would still have provided a link to the underlying data.

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Re: Boiler Servicing

#462646

Postby monabri » December 2nd, 2021, 2:35 pm

GeoffF100 wrote:
monabri wrote:Just looking at the graph, the population adds up to more than 100%.

The percentages are of the people in each group, not the total population. AF62 seems to have made the same mistake.


Where does it tell me that ? It's a nonsense of a graph then as posted !

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Re: Boiler Servicing

#462732

Postby GeoffF100 » December 2nd, 2021, 7:26 pm

AF62 wrote:
GeoffF100 wrote:
monabri wrote:Just looking at the graph, the population adds up to more than 100%.

The percentages are of the people in each group, not the total population. AF62 seems to have made the same mistake.


No I didn't make that mistake.

The percentages are clearly the percentage of *that* group who needed to have their boiler repaired. The issue is that Which?, for whatever reason, decided not to say *how many* people out of the 8,001 were in each group.

Thus you don't know if there were only 5 people in the 'once every 3-5 year' group and 3 of them needed a repair, or whether there were 2,000 and 1,200 needed a repair.

And more importantly Which?, for whatever reason, decided not to say what the age (or average age) of the boiler was in each group. If the 'once every 3-5 year' group was exclusively made up of 6 year old boilers and the 'once every year' group was made up of boilers less than two or three years old and still in warranty, then servicing is not the relevant factor; age of the boiler is.

If Which? were a decent research organisation then even if they didn't want to spoil the graphics with complexities, they would still have provided a link to the underlying data.

The chart tells us that about 62% of the people in the 3-5 year group needed a repair. If there were 5 people in the group 3.1 of them would need a repair. If there were 2,000 in the group 1,240 would have needed a repair. Your numbers are about right. They could not draw any valid conclusions if there were only 5 in the group. They also would not be able to draw valid conclusions if the boiler ages were not reasonably uniformly distributed over the groups. If we trust the Consumers Association, we have to assume that they have done this competently. Are there any other surveys?


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