The Lemon Fool

Slarti wrote:OK my phone is not that new Moto G 2nd Gen running Android 6, but I do know that if I forget to switch GPS off after arriving at a customer, at the end of the day it needs more charging.

Marshmallow is quite old now. I assume you have checked the app permissions to see which apps are using location settings and either denying access to those who really don't need it and closing down those you have finished with.

Slarti wrote:As for public unsecured networks, they can push things onto your phone without you even knowing that you have connected to them.

You would have first needed to set your phone to connect to any open network it finds, which to my mind falls in the 'being daft' category unless you are running a permanent VPN.

AF62 wrote:

Slarti wrote:OK my phone is not that new Moto G 2nd Gen running Android 6, but I do know that if I forget to switch GPS off after arriving at a customer, at the end of the day it needs more charging.

Marshmallow is quite old now. I assume you have checked the app permissions to see which apps are using location settings and either denying access to those who really don't need it and closing down those you have finished with.

Slarti wrote:As for public unsecured networks, they can push things onto your phone without you even knowing that you have connected to them.

You would have first needed to set your phone to connect to any open network it finds, which to my mind falls in the 'being daft' category unless you are running a permanent VPN.

I give apps as few permissions as they will run with and always check after they have an update that they haven't given themselves any new ones. If it can be stopped then if I'm not using it, it is.

My phone came with a default setting of connect to any open network, which was a surprise and soon changed and stopped being an option with 6. But I have still read things in security discussions online that make me thing that normal protocols can be overridden. No idea if it is true, but why take the risk?

Slarti

Slarti wrote: But I have still read things in security discussions online that make me thing that normal protocols can be overridden. No idea if it is true, but why take the risk?

Because it makes using the phone annoying.

For example leaving WiFi on means that location information is accurate far quicker. Digging into the location settings every time to turn on GPS every time I needed a map would be a pain. Bluetooth, well that needs to stay on to be connected to my watch.

Brava21 wrote:you can see what he is doing here, can't you? Dragging me into the 21st century by stealth

Another decade, another trick!
You see, you have already got comfortable with email, and websites. Onwards and upwards.

AF62 wrote:

Slarti wrote: But I have still read things in security discussions online that make me thing that normal protocols can be overridden. No idea if it is true, but why take the risk?

Because it makes using the phone annoying.

For example leaving WiFi on means that location information is accurate far quicker. Digging into the location settings every time to turn on GPS every time I needed a map would be a pain. Bluetooth, well that needs to stay on to be connected to my watch.

A quick double swipe down and a tap and the GPS is on, or just let the mapping software ask for it and say yes.

Not sure what wifi has to do with location information.

Slarti

Google and I think others keep a map of wifi access point names or MAC addresses. A wifi only iPad can find its location remarkably quickly in an urban area, as can a smartphone too deeply buried in a building to have good GPS reception.

Thanks to all again for your input. I feel a lot more comfortable with all this now - I've learned a lot, thank you.

To update quickly, I went for the Three 3-2-1 PAYG deal, and the new SIM arrived yesterday. When Mr B got home from work he restored factory settings on the old iPhone and set it all up for me. I can now (if I want to! ) make and receive calls, ditto texts and emails. Mr B has also set my facebook up (he clearly thinks this to be an essential; I only look at it really for one particular group I am in!!).

I am having a play with it today and will go through the settings later on with him so that I understand fully, but data does seem to be switched off as far as I can see.

I am going to keep my old number (assuming that process goes as smoothly as it seems to be). I know there is no logic in this, given that only a handful of people know the number (and know not to phone me on it as it is rarely switched on) but I have had it years and am fond of it...

Getting the PAC code from Orange was a doddle, and the instructions on the Three website were also quick and easy. I am now waiting to hear when the switchover will happen. This will be the final frontier in getting me onto the new phone...

With this 3-2-1 thing I can apparently buy add ons, for various prices, which give me much more in the way of data etc. and last 30 days. Mr B is suggesting that this would be a good move for our upcoming holiday, in as much as I could leave the iPad at home, just carry the phone, and look at all the usual web sites without worry of running out of credit. It's a thought, but I am not used to web browsing on such a small screen...I like my iPad!

Thanks to you all again, you've really helped me!

Brava

xeny wrote:Google and I think others keep a map of wifi access point names or MAC addresses. A wifi only iPad can find its location remarkably quickly in an urban area, as can a smartphone too deeply buried in a building to have good GPS reception.

My phone (Android) has power saving options that affect its location accuracy. The most accurate location is achieved with a combination of GPS and wifi, whereas switching wifi off reduces the stated accuracy. I assume there is a bit of software that can combine the position fixing from the two sources to achieve a reduced uncertainty.

VRD

xeny wrote:Google and I think others keep a map of wifi access point names or MAC addresses.

Wasn't there that controversy with their mapping cars? They were going round sniffing out wifi signals, even domestic routers.

Alaric wrote:Wasn't there that controversy with their mapping cars? They were going round sniffing out wifi signals, even domestic routers.

Yes, but they don't need to do it themselves. We're all doing it for them (generally).

Scott.

swill453 wrote:

Alaric wrote:Wasn't there that controversy with their mapping cars? They were going round sniffing out wifi signals, even domestic routers.

Yes, but they don't need to do it themselves. We're all doing it for them (generally).

Absolutely. When you use something on the phone with location awareness, not only is the phone telling you where you are but it is also feeding back to Google that at that location your phone can see x, y, and z WiFi signals (as well as the mobile phone mast data). So next time someone uses location data at that place, even before the GPS has a lock the phone has a pretty good idea where it is from the WiFi data around it.

If you want to see how much Google knows about your location, take a look at https://www.google.co.uk/maps/timeline

AF62 wrote:Absolutely. When you use something on the phone with location awareness, not only is the phone telling you where you are but it is also feeding back to Google that at that location your phone can see x, y, and z WiFi signals (as well as the mobile phone mast data). So next time someone uses location data at that place, even before the GPS has a lock the phone has a pretty good idea where it is from the WiFi data around it.

It's far too useful to switch off. Let's say you are trying to find a recommended pub in a strange town. You can look up the "where is it" on maps, but you also need to know "how do I get there"

Alaric wrote:It's far too useful to switch off. Let's say you are trying to find a recommended pub in a strange town. You can look up the "where is it" on maps, but you also need to know "how do I get there"

Actually that's NOT a reason to not turn it off. It is in fact a reason to turn it on. Having got to the pub etc, you can turn it back off. Now if you want a reason why anyone might wish it to be perminently on, how about so that lost or stolen phones can be found. Even then, unless you are totally paranoid, there are apps that will turn GPS on when the phone recieves a text so that lost or stolen phones may be found.

Of course some of us believe that such data should only be used for our purposes (ie to find that pub) and hence turn the location off except when we need it. By the way, I wouldn't be to harsh on google over this. EVERYONE is doing it. Angry Birds was one of the worst offenders.
https://www.polygon.com/2014/1/27/53508 ... ngry-birds
It seems that you give away a LOT of private info to play that game.

Personally I keep location services turned off unless I need them. My weather app complains, but uses a fixed location. Same with my tide app. I turn location on when using "Cask finder" to find a good pub or when using SatNav or MyCarLocation.

I have recently downloaded the app AroundMe to use on holiday. I'm somewhat dubious having read it's privacy policy. It would be better named as AboutMe as while it finds all sorts of usefull places about where you are, it also reveals a HELL of a lot about you and the data can be used for whatever they want!
Here is a link to their privacy policy.
http://www.aroundmeapp.com/privacy/en/
Interestingly nothing is said about age limits or the extent of data collected when you download it.

On the subject of app's Brava might be interested in OurGroceries. A family can share and update a cloud based shopping list and it's always with you rather than pinned to the fridge as you drive past a shop.