The Lemon Fool

'Great' Britain in the 21st century, and we're going to be cooking on tin cans filled with corrugated cardboard and melted candle wax.

Snorvey wrote:After gaining permission Centrica is going to start pumping LNG into the huge undersea Rough storage facility in less than 2 weeks according to various sources. Which will help.

Anorak wearing comment - It's not liquefied natural gas that's going into Rough. It's gas which is shipped to the UK from overseas as liquefied and is regasified at one of the LNG import terminals before being transported through the natural gas network and then off shore to Rough. Sorry to be wearing my anorak this afternoon.

BullDog wrote:Anorak wearing comment - It's not liquefied natural gas that's going into Rough. It's gas which is shipped to the UK from overseas as liquefied and is regasified at one of the LNG import terminals before being transported through the natural gas network and then off shore to Rough. Sorry to be wearing my anorak this afternoon.

This seems a pretty good post about why Rough was shut in the first place https://watt-logic.com/2022/08/08/re-op ... s-storage/ . I'm left wondering how much has been fixed/improved, and how much this is an act of desperation.

xeny wrote:

BullDog wrote:It's not liquefied natural gas that's going into Rough. It's gas which is shipped to the UK from overseas as liquefied and is regasified at one of the LNG import terminals before being transported through the natural gas network and then off shore to Rough.

This seems a pretty good post about why Rough was shut in the first place https://watt-logic.com/2022/08/08/re-op ... s-storage/ . I'm left wondering how much has been fixed/improved, and how much this is an act of desperation.

It was reported that the govt was asked to chip in to the cost of rehabilitating the storage, and refused on the basis that gas would be available in the market.

The only technically viable option for reducing the risk associated with injection operations using the existing Rough wells and infrastructure to an acceptable level was considered to be abandoning the existing Rough wells, drilling new wells, and substantially rebuilding the both offshore and onshore infrastructure. The required investment was deemed to be uneconomic.

With hindsight, a bad decision that will now come back to bite us in the posterior. And the govt cannot even claim that 'it was the other lot', because it wasn't.

Let's hope for a mild winter.

V8

88V8 wrote:

xeny wrote:

BullDog wrote:It's not liquefied natural gas that's going into Rough. It's gas which is shipped to the UK from overseas as liquefied and is regasified at one of the LNG import terminals before being transported through the natural gas network and then off shore to Rough.

This seems a pretty good post about why Rough was shut in the first place https://watt-logic.com/2022/08/08/re-op ... s-storage/ . I'm left wondering how much has been fixed/improved, and how much this is an act of desperation.

It was reported that the govt was asked to chip in to the cost of rehabilitating the storage, and refused on the basis that gas would be available in the market.

The only technically viable option for reducing the risk associated with injection operations using the existing Rough wells and infrastructure to an acceptable level was considered to be abandoning the existing Rough wells, drilling new wells, and substantially rebuilding the both offshore and onshore infrastructure. The required investment was deemed to be uneconomic.

With hindsight, a bad decision that will now come back to bite us in the posterior. And the govt cannot even claim that 'it was the other lot', because it wasn't.

Let's hope for a mild winter.

V8

A mild and windy winter hopefully.

Today, I drove a fair way along the North Wales coast where there's now hundreds of wind turbines within sight of the shore. Not even one appeared to be generating. If that happens in Winter then we'll be relying on extremely costly gas for CCGT generation and a couple of rescued ~60 year old coal fired power stations to keep the lights on.

There's little to no hope of importing power on the international interconnectors this winter since Norway is criticaly low on water for hydro generation. Over half of the nuclear power stations in France are shutdown. Germany is shutting down perfectly serviceable, reliable nuclear generation.

That's before Putin decides to completely cut off gas supplies to Europe......

How on earth did we allow the government in this country to sleep walk into a crisis like that? It could be a very tough and cold winter ahead.

Private Eye have been running a column called 'Keeping The Lights On' for two or three years now. As the title suggests, all is not well and power supplies have been literally on the edge in recent winters. And that's before recent events. I have no doubt that Putin will pull the plug on gas at the first sign of a cold snap in Eurpore. I've been busy building another log store this weekend.

BullDog wrote:
There's little to no hope of importing power on the international interconnectors this winter since Norway is criticaly low on water for hydro generation. Over half of the nuclear power stations in France are shutdown. Germany is shutting down perfectly serviceable, reliable nuclear generation.

I've seen a seemingly sensible suggestion that we overgenerate (presumably CCGT) and subsidise selling it to Norway, reducing their water consumption now with a view to it being returned in the winter.

Much of the rest of the news about electricity generation makes me think of Feynman's closing line in the Challenger report appendix - "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled."

Dod101 wrote:.....
Personally I am not on the gas grid so my concern is electricity, without which I have no lighting....
Dod

Lighting....

Over the years, for various reasons, I have acquired 3 cordless lithium battery lamps. A camping lantern, a table lamp, and a standard lamp.

These will see me through a few hours of any electricity cuts - for reading - as long as I remember to charge them!

I use the standard lamp most days anyway.

I am starting to think of the 1974 three day week period. I was in London at the time, and the schedule/location for power cuts was well advertised - so I always knew where I could find a well lit pub!

Whether or not the current shambles is capable of managing anything quite so helpful is another matter.

Snorvey wrote:These will see me through a few hours of any electricity cuts - for reading - as long as I remember to charge them!

I guess the only option for charging lights/batteries etc during a prolonged power cut would be the car.

Or a portable generator, e.g. this from Screwfix:



https://www.screwfix.com/p/impax-im800i ... 230v/15760

Hi all,

My flat is nearly all electric (apart from cooking). I have economy 7 for night time which runs rather expensively for storage heater(s) and hot water.

I was considering buying a portable oil filled electric radiator instead of using storage heater. Does anyone have any idea if this would be sensible and more economical way of doing things? I'll only be heating one room ....

Help, please

Many thanks
gnomes

gnomes26 wrote:Hi all,

My flat is nearly all electric (apart from cooking). I have economy 7 for night time which runs rather expensively for storage heater(s) and hot water.

I was considering buying a portable oil filled electric radiator instead of using storage heater. Does anyone have any idea if this would be sensible and more economical way of doing things? I'll only be heating one room ....

Help, please

Many thanks
gnomes

Presumably you will run the oil filled radiator during the day outside your economy 7 tariff. That's going to be a lot more expensive per unit of heat than your economy 7 storage heaters.

gnomes26 wrote:Hi all,

My flat is nearly all electric (apart from cooking). I have economy 7 for night time which runs rather expensively for storage heater(s) and hot water.

I was considering buying a portable oil filled electric radiator instead of using storage heater. Does anyone have any idea if this would be sensible and more economical way of doing things? I'll only be heating one room ....

Help, please

Many thanks
gnomes

Can you switch off (electrically isolate) individual storage heaters?

If so, I suspect it will be cheaper to heat that one room using the storage heater on E7 rather than using far dearer daytime units. Maybe turn down the input level of the storage heater too?

77ss wrote:I am starting to think of the 1974 three day week period. I was in London at the time, and the schedule/location for power cuts was well advertised - so I always knew where I could find a well lit pub! .

That may have been the earlier miner's dispute in 1972. In that one, there was a planned rota of three hour power cuts. In the 1973-74 sequel, the power remained on, but you weren't allowed to use it during the "other" 3 days. There were some odd exceptions. Office lighting was not allowed, but office machinery was. So a calculator (new fangled LED) could be used to illuminate your work. Other energy saving measures were earlier closing for pubs and a TV shutdown well before midnight.

Alaric wrote:

77ss wrote:I am starting to think of the 1974 three day week period. I was in London at the time, and the schedule/location for power cuts was well advertised - so I always knew where I could find a well lit pub! .

Office lighting was not allowed, but office machinery was.

I was working in the then-new CU tower in Leadenhall Street, 23 storeys of glass office. We had year-end figures to compile so had to crack on, which we did with the aid of candles.
Yes, on our paper-strewn desks, we were issued with candles.
Wish I'd taken a picture, but they wouldn't allow me to use flash powder in the office, which on reflection was just as well as I only had outdoor powder and it makes a lot of smoke.
Those were the days.

V8