The Lemon Fool

A bit of a confusing start to the EDF takeover of Utility Point...

OFGEM and general advice was to cancel Utility Point direct debits. I had one due on the 20th Septembr and saw no point in sending them my money after they'd gone bust, so I cancelled it.

Reading EDF's FAQs for Utility Point customers, they say...

"If you cancel your Direct Debit before you migrate to EDF we'll need to set you up as a Cash Cheque customer which is more expensive."

Whereas the OFGEM FAQs for Utility Point customers being migrated to EDF states...

"You don't need to worry if you’ve already cancelled your direct debit. EDF will be in touch with you to set up a new customer account and direct debit."

The increase is bad enough, without the insult of being chucked onto a more expensive cash/cheque tariff, so I thought I'd better check.

EDF offer a phone number to contact them by WhatsApp. Great, I thought. I'll get a definitive answer, but after typing m query, all I get is a bot reply saying it didn't understand the question

Hope things get better; they can hardly get worse...

Fluke wrote:

swill453 wrote:And Igloo looking to "restructure", apparently.

Scott.

What does that mean? I'm with them

It means wait and see. Could be something like a new strategic investor (buying in on the cheap), or a rights issue. Or a takeover within the sector (provided it's not too much of a basketcase - I've no idea). Or it could be bust.

Bear in mind, I speak from complete ignorance here. Only my first sentence above carries any kind of certainty.

Stompa wrote:Avro and Green now gone.

Oh! We're with |Green.

Or rather... were!

I suyppose that emans the £400 in credit we are in (summer payments etc) is now lost

didds wrote:

Stompa wrote:Avro and Green now gone.

Oh! We're with |Green.

Or rather... were!

I suyppose that emans the £400 in credit we are in (summer payments etc) is now lost

You should get it back eventually. But don't hold your breath.

didds wrote:

Stompa wrote:Avro and Green now gone.

Oh! We're with |Green.

Or rather... were!

I suyppose that emans the £400 in credit we are in (summer payments etc) is now lost

OFGEM guarantee the security of domestic customers' credits. It's apparently dealt with by whichever company is appointed to take over the defunct supplier's accounts, so maybe a wait, but it should be safe.

staffordian wrote:

didds wrote:

Stompa wrote:Avro and Green now gone.

Oh! We're with |Green.

Or rather... were!

I suyppose that emans the £400 in credit we are in (summer payments etc) is now lost

OFGEM guarantee the security of domestic customers' credits. It's apparently dealt with by whichever company is appointed to take over the defunct supplier's accounts, so maybe a wait, but it should be safe.

I'm not entirely sure I'm quite so confident about my credit with Utility Point, given that I switched to another company a couple of months before they went under. Fortunately it's a pretty trivial sum.

Stompa wrote:

staffordian wrote:

didds wrote:

Oh! We're with |Green.

Or rather... were!

I suyppose that emans the £400 in credit we are in (summer payments etc) is now lost

OFGEM guarantee the security of domestic customers' credits. It's apparently dealt with by whichever company is appointed to take over the defunct supplier's accounts, so maybe a wait, but it should be safe.

I'm not entirely sure I'm quite so confident about my credit with Utility Point, given that I switched to another company a couple of months before they went under. Fortunately it's a pretty trivial sum.

I looked through several sets of FAQs this evening and I'm pretty confident this issue was addressed in either the OFGEM or the EDF set, with specific reference to Utility Point. From memory, I think it said EDF would resolve these as well as dealing with credits on accounts they take over.

Edit: The EDF FAQs say "If you switched to a different supplier before Utility Point went into Administration and have a valid credit balance, we will contact you to let you know how we will get this back to you – please bear with us as this may take some time. Please be assured we are working hard to return your credit balance to you as soon as possible."

https://www.edfenergy.com/content/welco ... -customers

staffordian wrote:Edit: The EDF FAQs say "If you switched to a different supplier before Utility Point went into Administration and have a valid credit balance, we will contact you to let you know how we will get this back to you – please bear with us as this may take some time. Please be assured we are working hard to return your credit balance to you as soon as possible."

https://www.edfenergy.com/content/welco ... -customers

Ah thanks, well spotted - it sounds like there is hope after all then, well eventually!

UncleEbenezer wrote:

Fluke wrote:

swill453 wrote:And Igloo looking to "restructure", apparently.

Scott.

What does that mean? I'm with them

It means wait and see. Could be something like a new strategic investor (buying in on the cheap), or a rights issue. Or a takeover within the sector (provided it's not too much of a basketcase - I've no idea). Or it could be bust.

Bear in mind, I speak from complete ignorance here. Only my first sentence above carries any kind of certainty.

My guess is 'bust'. Any other plan would require some value being in the residual business, but I think there is none. They have no assets, no profitable parts and no goodwill. Only a set of supply obligations which they (and in fact nobody else either) can meet at todays''s prices and still make a profit.

Nimrod103 wrote:My guess is 'bust'. Any other plan would require some value being in the residual business, but I think there is none. They have no assets, no profitable parts and no goodwill. Only a set of supply obligations which they (and in fact nobody else either) can meet at todays''s prices and still make a profit.

If it's a bust then the obligations are dead: AN Other supplier won't honour their tariffs.

As happened to me a few weeks back when out of the blue I found I'd been transferred to EON. Just a few months after leaving them.

UncleEbenezer wrote:

Nimrod103 wrote:My guess is 'bust'. Any other plan would require some value being in the residual business, but I think there is none. They have no assets, no profitable parts and no goodwill. Only a set of supply obligations which they (and in fact nobody else either) can meet at todays''s prices and still make a profit.

If it's a bust then the obligations are dead: AN Other supplier won't honour their tariffs.

As happened to me a few weeks back when out of the blue I found I'd been transferred to EON. Just a few months after leaving them.

The problem is that no supplier can make a profit on gas at the moment. Electricity is a different matter as the wholesale electricity price will vary hour to hour depending on the generating mix. It will go down as more renewables become available - so lets hope for a windy winter. The companies are limited to the cap price on standard variable tariffs* which is well below the cost of gas at the moment. Many of the bigger companies will have bought forward for their existing customers, so should be making a profit from them if they did their sums correctly, but if forced by ofgem to take on new customers they will be making a loss on everyone at the moment.

* many of the new fixed price tariffs available are actually more than the cap (they may be worth taking if you think the cap will be raised markedly in April 22 - or earlier if the government decides that is needed to save at least a few companies). I'm with SSE (now OVO) and when my last fixed tariff finished I was moved to the SVR. I had to have a smart meter fitted as my old meter failed and after the meter was fitted I haven't been able to change tariff on-line it said phone and I didn't get round to phoning so i'm stuck on the SVR which seems to be the cheapest tariff they do at the moment.

It will be interesting to see if they try and put my DD up as I am well in credit at the moment. When they were SSE they were very good at listening and accepting arguments about not raising DDs, not so sure now though.

I am in the same position with OVO but I pay by DD on an old fashioned quarterly in arrears basis. I have never seen the benefit in giving an energy supplier any money in advance. I have never done anything about seeking out the cheapest supplier because I reckon it is just not worth the hassle and that seems to be being borne out at the moment. I hope that OVO survives. At least it is not being run by a 27 year old with apparently little capital behind him.

I only have electricity on the grid and rely on my trusty oil tank to supply hot water plus a woodburner for heating.

Dod

Dod101 wrote:I am in the same position with OVO but I pay by DD on an old fashioned quarterly in arrears basis. I have never seen the benefit in giving an energy supplier any money in advance. I have never done anything about seeking out the cheapest supplier because I reckon it is just not worth the hassle and that seems to be being borne out at the moment...

Dod

Where's the hassle? I can't remember how long I've been switching on an annual basis (at least 10 years) but I know for a fact I have saved thousands of pounds by doing so, just for 20 minutes of my time each year in providing some meter readings and setting up a direct debit. The process is so simple it's idiotic not to do it. In fact, when the oil price dropped to zero in May last year I switched cost free to make the most of the great deals on offer and saved about £400 in the year to June. Just because there is a once in a lifetime problem with a spike in gas prices currently doesn't mean it isn't worth switching, both now and in the future. I will continue to switch insurances and utilities in the future despite the current problems to get the best deals because the return on investment (less than half hour of my time) is so high.

All the best, Si

quite right Si
but some peole can't be bothered to make a sligh effort
There's a roundbaout on the A1 with two garages just off it
The one on the Souhbound side is ALWAYS cheaper than the one on the Northbound and yet lots can't be ar*ed to drive ALL the way to the other side of the roundabout to get the cheaper fuel

pje16 wrote:quite right Si
but some peole can't be bothered to make a sligh effort
There's a roundbaout on the A1 with two garages just off it
The one on the Souhbound side is ALWAYS cheaper than the one on the Northbound and yet lots can't be ar*ed to drive ALL the way to the other side of the roundabout to get the cheaper fuel

Yes, not switching utilities or not driving a short distance to get cheaper petrol both fall into the "more money than sense" category!

All the best, Si

simoan wrote:

pje16 wrote:quite right Si
but some peole can't be bothered to make a sligh effort
There's a roundbaout on the A1 with two garages just off it
The one on the Souhbound side is ALWAYS cheaper than the one on the Northbound and yet lots can't be ar*ed to drive ALL the way to the other side of the roundabout to get the cheaper fuel

Yes, not switching utilities or not driving a short distance to get cheaper petrol both fall into the "more money than sense" category!

All the best, Si

Well I always look for the cheapest petrol, but quite a number of those who have been switching around in buying their utilities now seem to be in a spot of bother. In any case, I buy only electricity from the grid so I guess my 'lost' savings will be a bit less than the numbers quoted.

Dod

simoan wrote:

Dod101 wrote:I am in the same position with OVO but I pay by DD on an old fashioned quarterly in arrears basis. I have never seen the benefit in giving an energy supplier any money in advance. I have never done anything about seeking out the cheapest supplier because I reckon it is just not worth the hassle and that seems to be being borne out at the moment...

Dod

Where's the hassle? I can't remember how long I've been switching on an annual basis (at least 10 years) but I know for a fact I have saved thousands of pounds by doing so, just for 20 minutes of my time each year in providing some meter readings and setting up a direct debit. The process is so simple it's idiotic not to do it. In fact, when the oil price dropped to zero in May last year I switched cost free to make the most of the great deals on offer and saved about £400 in the year to June. Just because there is a once in a lifetime problem with a spike in gas prices currently doesn't mean it isn't worth switching, both now and in the future. I will continue to switch insurances and utilities in the future despite the current problems to get the best deals because the return on investment (less than half hour of my time) is so high.

All the best, Si

I'm the same as Dod - never changed. Why:
1) I actually got very good service from SSE (when they were SSE) you could get through on the phone on a couple of rings, talk to someone in the UK and they would listen to what you were saying and not put up your DD if you provided them with a reasonable argued reason why not.
2) I wouldn't have saved much - whenever I'd looked the savings were going to be only a few pounds. But I have no gas, run the central heating and water off a woodburner and only use between 1300 and 2500kwh (units) per year. Its been creeping up as I get older.

Dod101 wrote:

simoan wrote:

pje16 wrote:quite right Si
but some peole can't be bothered to make a sligh effort
There's a roundbaout on the A1 with two garages just off it
The one on the Souhbound side is ALWAYS cheaper than the one on the Northbound and yet lots can't be ar*ed to drive ALL the way to the other side of the roundabout to get the cheaper fuel

Yes, not switching utilities or not driving a short distance to get cheaper petrol both fall into the "more money than sense" category!

All the best, Si

Well I always look for the cheapest petrol, but quite a number of those who have been switching around in buying their utilities now seem to be in a spot of bother.

Dod

Well, it's not really bother, is it? If you ignore the hyperbole in the media, no-one is going to be cut-off and their supply will be moved to a new supplier at which point they can look to switch if they wish. No-one likes it when the price of something goes up a lot but you may find yourself in the same position next time you need to order oil for your boiler. Just because you're own circumstances are different from 95% of the population doesn't mean you should somehow be allowed to admonish people with a kind of "serves you right" attitude for doing something that is perfectly legitimate and for many years has saved people a significant amount of money.

All the best, Si

simoan wrote:

Dod101 wrote:

simoan wrote:Yes, not switching utilities or not driving a short distance to get cheaper petrol both fall into the "more money than sense" category!

All the best, Si

Well I always look for the cheapest petrol, but quite a number of those who have been switching around in buying their utilities now seem to be in a spot of bother.

Dod

Well, it's not really bother, is it? If you ignore the hyperbole in the media, no-one is going to be cut-off and their supply will be moved to a new supplier at which point they can look to switch if they wish. No-one likes it when the price of something goes up a lot but you may find yourself in the same position next time you need to order oil for your boiler. Just because you're own circumstances are different from 95% of the population doesn't mean you should somehow be allowed to admonish people with a kind of "serves you right" attitude for doing something that is perfectly legitimate and for many years has saved people a significant amount of money.

All the best, Si

I'm sorry. I do not mean to suggest 'serves you right' and if I gave that impression I apologise. All I was saying is that for the supply of electricity I never found it worth the bother and you were the one to imply that I had more money than sense which is not very generous either.

My oil price varies hugely and I expect that when I come to refill my oil tank in another month or so it will be expensive but that is life. It has been very cheap for the last year or two.

Dod

daveh wrote:I'm the same as Dod - never changed.

I was like that until my 2019 house move. SSE at the house from 2013-19; EDF at the previous flat from 2005-2013. Each inherited from a landlord or previous occupant of the address. No problems.

I started switching at the present place, when I inherited EDF and found communication with them no longer worked: customer service modelled on Kafka. Two switches later and I had a competitive price and a nice web interface that worked for everything. Until a few weeks ago, when I was informed otherwise

staffordian wrote:EDF offer a phone number to contact them by WhatsApp. Great, I thought. I'll get a definitive answer, but after typing m query, all I get is a bot reply saying it didn't understand the question

You may be on the pathway that caused me to leave EDF. In your position I'd leave the DD open until you have resolution, or at least meaningful communication.