The Lemon Fool

Our water authority have written to us suggesting that it would save us money by having a water meter.

Now, if it saves us money, then it will cost them money (I assume), so why do they suggest this?

We are not having a meter BTW - the ponds and cascade in our garden require a lot of water in a dry spell. Just curious.

I suspect the water authority have a Government set target to get everyone on a water meter eventually. Just like energy companies have to try to get a smart meter installed in every home by 2020.

It makes sense - so much water is wasted. I'm thinking here of automatic flushing urinals in pubs and other buildings, for example.

Watis

It is a saving for the company if its customers use less water and therefore they have to source less water. Most people with a water meter will make some attempt to keep their water use under control once they have a meter. For example people without a meter will tend to feel they must keep their lawn green by watering it in summer. People with a meter are much more likely to reflect on the fact that grass is a remarkably tough thing and even if the lawn goes completely brown during the height of summer it will soon perk up again once the hot weather is over.

There is, of course, also an environmental value to people using less water especially in certain dry parts of the country which are densely populated. Water companies are under pressure to at least make a show of caring for the environment so they will urgently tell you to save the last drop of water while failing themselves to deal with major leaks in their own pipes.

I was given a meter in September. Without it I would pay the fixed flat amount of £517 a year based on the rateable value of the property which must be incorrect but apparently there is not a single case where someone who challenged it won. So luckily got the meter. Since September they had my DD at £27 and based on their recent estimated bill wanted to up it to £40 based on 33 cubic meters used. I had actually used only 8 so my DD was amended to £17 (I use between £15-16 but in the summer it will most likely go up a bit due to more frequent showers, bit of car washing and possibly the garden).

I suspect the water authority have a Government set target to get everyone on a water meter eventually. Just like energy companies have to try to get a smart meter installed in every home by 2020.

I'm certainly not having a smart meter either

I'm certainly not having a smart meter either

Sooner or later it will be no smart meter then no power supply either. The advent of smart cars etc and changing sources of electricity will make some sort of differential pricing based on time of day inevitable.

I have a water meter but am declining a smart meter at present but only until I'm assured the meter will work regardless of your utility supplier.

If you don't have a water meter then basically you want the rest of us to subsidise you. There will come a point where that will not be acceptable. Especially not when people see the unmetered properties merrily using large amounts of water on ponds & lawns.

regards, dspp

dspp wrote:If you don't have a water meter then basically you want the rest of us to subsidise you. There will come a point where that will not be acceptable. Especially not when people see the unmetered properties merrily using large amounts of water on ponds & lawns.

regards, dspp

I agree in principle, but practically, how do you tell if the homeowner has a water meter, or is just happy to pay for large amounts of water?

The consumption doesn't need to be conspicuous either: water meter users probably (no statistics, no evidence, just supposition) have shallower baths, shorter showers, efficient cisterns and turn the tap off whilst brushing their teeth. It's perfectly possible to literally "pour the water down the drain" by not taking steps to minimise, or at least optimise, water consumption, but nobody else would ever know.

At some point I suspect water companies will just "do it" and put a meter at the boundary of the property, or increase unmetered fees to make the argument for a meter compelling.

As for electricity smart meters - I'm in the camp that's deferring installation until a) they work with solar panels and b) they work with any supplier (BG failed both tests the last time we had this discussion!).

vrdiver wrote:

dspp wrote:If you don't have a water meter then basically you want the rest of us to subsidise you. There will come a point where that will not be acceptable. Especially not when people see the unmetered properties merrily using large amounts of water on ponds & lawns.

regards, dspp

I agree in principle, but practically, how do you tell if the homeowner has a water meter, or is just happy to pay for large amounts of water?

The consumption doesn't need to be conspicuous either: water meter users probably (no statistics, no evidence, just supposition) have shallower baths, shorter showers, efficient cisterns and turn the tap off whilst brushing their teeth. It's perfectly possible to literally "pour the water down the drain" by not taking steps to minimise, or at least optimise, water consumption, but nobody else would ever know.

At some point I suspect water companies will just "do it" and put a meter at the boundary of the property, or increase unmetered fees to make the argument for a meter compelling.

As for electricity smart meters - I'm in the camp that's deferring installation until a) they work with solar panels and b) they work with any supplier (BG failed both tests the last time we had this discussion!).

I don't have a water meter but am probably paying more than I need to, based on the guideline that, if there are fewer residents living at an address than there are bedrooms, it will usually be cheaper to have metered water.

I have never been one to waste water even though it's not costing me any more. So I do take most of the steps suggested to minimise water use/wastage and have done for years. And I've no doubt that metering will become mandatory at some time in the future.

As for electricity smart meters, don't accept one that doesn't meet the SMETS2 standard, which I'm advised will become available later this year.

Watis

Re the mechanism I'm not sure, but I suspect a few droughts will push it along a bit (as well as outrage at profits being earned by water co utility shareholders during droughts ....).

Re elec meters I am also holding off for similar reasons. During development of MCS I pushed hard that all installs should be accompanied by fitting o fproperly working bi-directional meters, but I was given a good ignoring. Hence the mockery of deeming and the dragging of heels over smart meters that we all see, plus the ongoing standards debacle. My GF's smart meter does not record her kWh export. It could do so, but the profile that is in it does not allow it. If you have ever engaged in the process of changing a smart meter profile you would despair.

regards, dspp

Watis wrote:I don't have a water meter but am probably paying more than I need to, based on the guideline that, if there are fewer residents living at an address than there are bedrooms, it will usually be cheaper to have metered water.

Watis

As this is the LBYM board, I have to ask "why not?"

VRD

Watis wrote:I don't have a water meter but am probably paying more than I need to, based on the guideline that, if there are fewer residents living at an address than there are bedrooms, it will usually be cheaper to have metered water.

I would suggest that the rule of thumb should be extended to "if the number of residents is less than the number of bedrooms and the council tax band is C or higher, then it will be usually be cheaper to have metered water".

This is on the basis that band A and possibly band B properties will have a lower rateable value, meaning that the cost savings will not be as big.

PochiSoldi
(Had a water meter installed in a 2bed Band C flat, 10 years back when the water rates hit £400 pa, and hasn't got a water meter in his current Band A house, with the 2018 annual bill coming in at £220pa)

I had a water meter installed approx 11 years ago when I discovered that my water rates were a great deal more than my previous address.

My bills were cut to a third and, 11 years later, they are still below what I would have paid then.

As for smart electric meters, mine has saved me quite a considerable amount on my previous usage, although a new combi-boiler has contributed significantly to that. It has made me painfully aware of how much I use and can, therefore save. Granted I probably could not change, but, to be honest, I would hate to be without either.

Nemo wrote:Our water authority have written to us suggesting that it would save us money by having a water meter.

Now, if it saves us money, then it will cost them money (I assume), so why do they suggest this?

We are not having a meter BTW - the ponds and cascade in our garden require a lot of water in a dry spell. Just curious.

Strictly speaking, no meter, no ponds and cascade during a hosepipe ban.

Last time there was one someone at one of my clients got a hefty fine slapped on them for wasting water. Just saying.

Slarti

Nemo wrote:I'm certainly not having a smart meter either

I'll let them "give" me smart meters when they are 2nd generation ones, that work with all suppliers, and not before.

The only real advantage for me will be not having to fill in their website once a month, as I will still take the readings and put them on my spreadsheet so that I can check what they are billing me.

Also, eventually, your current meter(s) will pass their sell by date and they will exercise their right of access to install new ones. Had that happen with the gas about 20 years ago.

Slarti

vrdiver wrote:

Watis wrote:I don't have a water meter but am probably paying more than I need to, based on the guideline that, if there are fewer residents living at an address than there are bedrooms, it will usually be cheaper to have metered water.

Watis

As this is the LBYM board, I have to ask "why not?"

VRD[/quote

simple.............its NOT beyond his LBYM

I've come to the conclusion some people are just plain scared of having a meter installed, even though they have nothing to lose by giving it a go, and then reverting back at the end of the 1 year trail period if its too expensive.

One of our neighbours defies logic when responding to the fact that we save over 50% of what she is paying, for a similar occupancy and rateable value, by saying it might make any future sale of her house difficult with prospective buyers likely put off by the presence a water meter! All the more puzzling to make sense of as she frequently switches energy suppliers and shops around for bargains to make ends meet. Meanwhile we must have saved over £3000 in the ten years its been in use and till recently gave up reminding her of those economies

I would imagine these companies are keen to see less waste water needing processing rather than limiting clean water supply side, as its is less of a problem than sewage processing, which is costly and needs serious upgrading with rising population

In my experience, the only people who would lose out by having a water meter are families of five or six or more, living in small, low rateable value properties who are carelessly extravagant in their water usage.

We paid around £250 per year last year and have been told the payments will remain the same next year.

When we moved in during 2013 the water bill was based on the rateable value and was almost £400 per year.

As water meters have been compulsory in new builds since the 1990s, I doubt very much if many folk would expect an RV based bill these days, or be put off by a meter. In fact I'd suggest most potential buyers wouldn't even ask the question.

For two of us in our house, metered water costs less than a third of the charge based on rateable value.

A family with lots of kids might find it differently, but I suspect not.

TJH

mutantpoodle wrote:

vrdiver wrote:

Watis wrote:I don't have a water meter but am probably paying more than I need to, based on the guideline that, if there are fewer residents living at an address than there are bedrooms, it will usually be cheaper to have metered water.

Watis

As this is the LBYM board, I have to ask "why not?"

VRD[/quote

simple.............its NOT beyond his LBYM

It's on the radar but one concern is what happens if I have a massive water leak. Do I have to pay for all that lost water?

Watis