The Lemon Fool

I live in the depths of rural Norfolk and and Broadband speed is low. This is despite a fibre cable running past the end of my drive (80 metres from the road to my house) and a cabinet within 100 metres of my drive entrance. In theory I am on "Superfast Fibre 2 Unlimited" from BT but get upload : 47 Mbps and download 12 Mbps. Cost £56 per month plus about £20 for calls to mobiles so £86 per month all in.

A new enterprise is - provided there is enough commitment - going to install a full fibre network right to the house and will make the following charges:

One off Charges
~~ Connection : Free (usual price £225) for early birds
~~ Installation : Free
~~ Keep existing Tel Number : £15 (this is the charge that BT / Openreach make to the new provider) i.e. monopoly pricing power
~~ New router : Free

Recurring Charges
~~ No cost for phone line
~~ Free calls to UK landlines and Mobiles : £13 per month
~~ Ultra Fast Fibre : £20 per month going up to £40 per month after 6 months for 300 Mbps
or : £27.50 per month going up to £55 per month after 6 months for 600 Mbps
or after 6 months revert to 50 Mbps and continue at £20 per month

So all calls and data for £33 per month on basic system - intrinsically the same as I have now for a whopping saving of £53 per month or a much enhanced product for £53 per month a saving of a mere £33 per month,

Seems almost too good to be true but the savings are immense. I am reluctant to leave BT having been a customer (in their various shapes and forms for nearly 50 years)~ but their customer service has declined so much that any loyalty I had has long gone.

Are there:

a) any pitfalls I should look for
b) any better deals I could get ?

Looks good but might be worth mentioning a couple of options to reduce the phone call cost:

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2856&start=20

Personally I'm thinking of trying a Google Home for free calls and Sipgate is another useful option mentioned in that thread.

RC

The business plan for most of these local rura lfibre telcos (which are normally a get rich quick scheme by the major local rich boys, aka pleasured gentry) is to flog em and scarper a few years down the line.

How will this deal look then ? Especially if newco raises the prices.

Just a thought.

- dspp

Thanks for the suggestion, ReformedCharacter, but I should have said that we are effectively in a "Not-Spot"

dspp wrote:The business plan for most of these local rural fibre telcos (which are normally a get rich quick scheme by the major local rich boys, aka pleasured gentry) is to flog em and scarper a few years down the line. ... How will this deal look then ? Especially if newco raises the prices... Just a thought. - dspp

Good thinking, dspp, but actually this company has been in business for 15 years and has provided other solutions over those years to local authorities and major cities in the east of England. It is highly thought of by local government and other agencies (with which I work in various capacities to increase mobile phone coverage and high speed broadband in Norfolk). They work in partnership with the Church of England and indeed have received some funding from them. They also recently "received £46 million from Aviva Investors that will be used to boost several underserved communities and businesses." They are, I think, as solid as a "start up" can be - with kind regards - BBB

Do you know if your newco has a track record?

What happens when something fails and you have no connection? Will you be able to contact their support line? If yes, will they fix things in a reasonable time?

I ask because my experience with Virgin tells me you can't take any of that for granted. If your newco is anything like them, you might find yourself looking back at the golden age of BT.

BusyBumbleBee wrote:Thanks for the suggestion, ReformedCharacter, but I should have said that we are effectively in a "Not-Spot"

I wasn't suggesting that you should go for broadband via 4G, but in that thread are some cost-cutting options for saving the £13 call charges you mention:

Free calls to UK landlines and Mobiles : £13 per month

RC

I would have thought that part of the attraction of the deal is to get the fibre installed and connected. Once that is in place (and subject to contract) then another provider can be chosen if needs be. It might be worth mentioning that you won't necessarily lose your current landline; I have FTTP and the blower is still connected to the copper.

RC

BusyBumbleBee wrote:

dspp wrote:The business plan for most of these local rural fibre telcos (which are normally a get rich quick scheme by the major local rich boys, aka pleasured gentry) is to flog em and scarper a few years down the line. ... How will this deal look then ? Especially if newco raises the prices... Just a thought. - dspp

Good thinking, dspp, but actually this company has been in business for 15 years and has provided other solutions over those years to local authorities and major cities in the east of England. It is highly thought of by local government and other agencies (with which I work in various capacities to increase mobile phone coverage and high speed broadband in Norfolk). They work in partnership with the Church of England and indeed have received some funding from them. They also recently "received £46 million from Aviva Investors that will be used to boost several underserved communities and businesses." They are, I think, as solid as a "start up" can be - with kind regards - BBB

My local equivalent has been around a similar length of time, and is similarly well regarded. The people behind it didn't become landed for no reason. Monetisation will take place to suit their timescale, not the users. Meantime they are very adroit marketeers.

Anyway, good luck with your decision. I'm hoping that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_ ... stellation) will make it irrelevant, but I've yet to figure out a reasonable way of investing in them.

regards, dspp

Irrespective of the long term viability of the potential supplier, if you are 180m from the CAB and street DSLAM (the two boxes should be alongside each other), you should be synching at 80Mb/s (down) / 20Mb/s (up), have a line attenuation each way of around 10dB and a SNR of 15dB upwards. If your figures are very different from these it is worth finding out why. And with such figures, you should be hitting a data rate of 70Mb/s => 76Mb/s down.
For £56 pm (inc line rental) – which sounds like the Fibre Plus package – you are being ripped off (unless BT also give you free calls that you use)! For £1 less you could be on Andrews and Arnold FTTC (capped at 2000GB!) and get the best technical support around, or a similar package from almost-as-good Zen for £40.

UncleEbenezer wrote:Do you know if your newco has a track record? {-- Yes - 15 years --}

What happens when something fails and you have no connection? Will you be able to contact their support line? If yes, will they fix things in a reasonable time? {-- Yes to the first part (and as they are supplying everything it is one port of call) - can''t say whether they can fix it in a reasonable time but they are allowed to repair fixtures and fittings belonging to say BT and then recharge them!

I ask because my experience with Virgin tells me you can't take any of that for granted. If your newco is anything like them, you might find yourself looking back at the golden age of BT.{-- I do look back to the golden age of BT - when they were responsive and cheap (installed an extension for me 300 metres form the home phone and charged me £12 (standard charge) for doing it which required the installation of 5 poles! and also when fantastic stuff came from Martlesham --}

Sorry not to respond sooner UncleE and thanks for this - big day tomorrow

dspp wrote:My local equivalent has been around a similar length of time, and is similarly well regarded. The people behind it didn't become landed for no reason. Monetisation will take place to suit their timescale, not the users. Meantime they are very adroit marketeers. ... regards, dspp

Funny old thing this, dspp, Over on the VCT board we are looking for VCTs to invest in this sort of thing and delighted when they can monetise the business and sell out for huge profits. We also don't seem to mind when (Footsie 100 and other) bosses get paid so much each year that they can buy a huge estate from cash flow. But when we want to buy something our attitudes seem to change. Personally I like to see other people make loads of dosh and if I can ride on their coat tails a bit I am very happy,

BusyBumbleBee wrote:

dspp wrote:My local equivalent has been around a similar length of time, and is similarly well regarded. The people behind it didn't become landed for no reason. Monetisation will take place to suit their timescale, not the users. Meantime they are very adroit marketeers. ... regards, dspp

Funny old thing this, dspp, Over on the VCT board we are looking for VCTs to invest in this sort of thing and delighted when they can monetise the business and sell out for huge profits. We also don't seem to mind when (Footsie 100 and other) bosses get paid so much each year that they can buy a huge estate from cash flow. But when we want to buy something our attitudes seem to change. Personally I like to see other people make loads of dosh and if I can ride on their coat tails a bit I am very happy,

I haven't said it is bad. All I have pointed out is that you might want to consider how the situation might develop since you are considering making the switch. Which can involve thinking it through at a number of different levels, so I have given you some pointers. Which was in response to your enquiry about "am I missing anything".

(There are some things not to be liked in general about these situations, but I haven't raised them in this instance. Nor have I raised the many other issues to dislike regarding the status quo as an alternative.)

Good luck with your decision, whichever way you go.

regards, dspp

ReformedCharacter wrote:I would have thought that part of the attraction of the deal is to get the fibre installed and connected. Once that is in place (and subject to contract) then another provider can be chosen if needs be. It might be worth mentioning that you won't necessarily lose your current landline; I have FTTP and the blower is still connected to the copper.RC

How right you are : They have to open up the network after 2/3 years and sell wholesale to other providers - much as BT do today. I can certainly keep my old landline as it is a totally new connection and even if it doesn't work out can always revert because the old stuff will not be removed. The call package is separate from the broadband but keeping the old system functional will cost me the recurring price of a line from BT.

Just as an aside: no-one has attempted to answer my question as to whether there are better deals around.

stewamax wrote:Irrespective of the long term viability of the potential supplier, if you are 180m from the CAB and street DSLAM (the two boxes should be alongside each other), you should be synching at 80Mb/s (down) / 20Mb/s (up), have a line attenuation each way of around 10dB and a SNR of 15dB upwards. If your figures are very different from these it is worth finding out why. And with such figures, you should be hitting a data rate of 70Mb/s => 76Mb/s down.
For £56 pm (inc line rental) – which sounds like the Fibre Plus package – you are being ripped off (unless BT also give you free calls that you use)! For £1 less you could be on Andrews and Arnold FTTC (capped at 2000GB!) and get the best technical support around, or a similar package from almost-as-good Zen for £40.

I can confirm Zen are great. Worth paying for.

regards, dspp

stewamax wrote:Irrespective of the long term viability of the potential supplier, if you are 180m from the CAB and street DSLAM (the two boxes should be alongside each other), you should be synching at 80Mb/s (down) / 20Mb/s (up), have a line attenuation each way of around 10dB and a SNR of 15dB upwards. If your figures are very different from these it is worth finding out why. And with such figures, you should be hitting a data rate of 70Mb/s => 76Mb/s down.
For £56 pm (inc line rental) – which sounds like the Fibre Plus package – you are being ripped off (unless BT also give you free calls that you use)! For £1 less you could be on Andrews and Arnold FTTC (capped at 2000GB!) and get the best technical support around, or a similar package from almost-as-good Zen for £40.

Thanks for this very helpful reply, stewamax.

There is a lot of history behind my telephone/broadband system as it was one of the first telephone lines to be installed in the village directly from the village exchange. I suspect that I am in fact on copper the whole way and don't even go thru the cabinet. There also been a lot of pressure from the residents to get better broadband and a lot of money thrown at the problem by central and local government which has been (gratefully ) swallowed up by BT. I am one of the lucky ones here - many do not even get the speeds I get. BT are just so hard to contact that I can't be bothered with them any more. - with kind regards - BBB

BusyBumbleBee wrote: I suspect that I am in fact on copper the whole way and don't even go thru the cabinet.

This was - and maybe still is - a major gotcha for anyone unfortunate to be in this position. But I suspect that since you have FTTC (albeit inadequate) you may have been cabled to the CAB.

If you visit BTOR's availability checker at https://my.btwholesale.com/includes/ads ... dslchecker
It would be interesting to see what VDSL synch speeds they think you should have. If your router (when plugged directly into the BT master socket - the NTE5) gives synch speeds markedly and consistently lower than the "VDSL Range B (Impacted) / Downstream Handback Threshold(Mbps)" figure, the customer can terminate the BT contract with no penalty, although customer needs to give BTOR the chance to fix it first.

Synch speeds are not data rates though, and it is possible that the local multiplexer (DSLAM) or the one at any nearby larger town to which the local one is connected, is overloaded.

Are your 47 Mbps and download 12 Mbps synch speeds or are they data rates measured using e.g. OOKLA?

A most helpful reply, stewamax, thank-you.

The BT test (just run and taking God knows how long) shows 47.5Mb/s - the site you pointed me to does show that I am connected to a cabinet - and I have to believe them.

BusyBumbleBee wrote:A most helpful reply, stewamax, thank-you.

The BT test (just run and taking God knows how long) shows 47.5Mb/s - the site you pointed me to does show that I am connected to a cabinet - and I have to believe them.

When we first got FTTC our speeds were in the order of 25 Mbps, which was wonderful compared to ADSL2, then they suddenly dropped to less than 10 Mbps and we got a crackle on the line.

The BT Openreach guy came a couple of days later and looked at my cabling from the master socket to where it popped out of the ground by the end of our garage and as he was holding it the covering collapsed in his hand revealing the copper. He replaced that wire and the speed jumped to 35 Mbps and it has since moved up to 40 Mbps as they have added new boxes round here.

First step has to be to put in a fault report with BT, otherwise any other FTTC supplier will probably have the same problems.

Slarti

BusyBumbleBee wrote:Just as an aside: no-one has attempted to answer my question as to whether there are better deals around.

I am with NOW Fab Fibre Broadband with calls included.
They are owned by Sky and use the Sky/Openreach network.
The hub is the latest SKY Q model with a NOW branding.
Been no problem at all with consistent 35Mbps down and 8Mbps up - rural area also.

You need to go via topcashback to get this offer and £90 off:-
https://www.topcashback.co.uk/now-broadband/

£25/month 1 year contract
Totally unlimited fibre broadband. FTTC
Includes Anytime Calls (and to mobiles) and line rental.
£0 set up & £0 P&P

Note that this offer expires tomorrow (8th August).

If your line is good enough, there is a similar deal for super fibre ~ 63Mbps