Battery Storage for solar

[richlist]

I think we are just at the beginning of electricity tariff reviews and tampering. It's all a bit of an energy maelstrom.

It's certainly is. I'd like to know how someone in a flat on the 9th floor of a high rise is going to charge their electric car let alone find somewhere to locate a large storage battery etc

[BullDog]

I think we are just at the beginning of electricity tariff reviews and tampering. It's all a bit of an energy maelstrom.

It's certainly is. I'd like to know how someone in a flat on the 9th floor of a high rise is going to charge their electric car let alone find somewhere to locate a large storage battery etc

Great question. From where I am sitting, you literally cannot count all the apartments. There's so many

[funduffer]

Thanks everyone for their views

I Installed solar panels in the early days when they cost £13k , back in 2011 , In those 10 yrs ive covered the cost of the pannels with FIT payments ,in fact as of today im £1500 up on my original investment , plus theres whatever electric i got off the pannels so now the FIT is all profit. and it looks like im going to be getting over 60p per unit of electric from the FIT.
The thoughts on batterys was just how much more i would save by adding batterys - asked for a smart meter and EDF messed it up , got one for gas but not for electric , once i know how much im sending back guess i will have more idea about batterys

Wow! If you are getting 60p per unit (kWh) on your FIT, then I think you will find it very difficult to justify a battery.

Is this 60p really right? I ask because the replacement for the FIT scheme, the Smart Export Guarantee (SEG) only pays 5p to 6p per unit!

If you had a smart meter you would probably find that you export ~70% of what your panels produce per year, unless you use huge amounts of electricity during the daytime. By storing that electricity in a battery and using it when your panels are not producing you will be saving 15p to 20p per unit (kWh), which is way below what the FIT scheme is paying you.

Surely you are better off selling your surplus at 60p and buying it back at 20p?

FD

[Gan020]

Thanks everyone for their views

I Installed solar panels in the early days when they cost £13k , back in 2011 , In those 10 yrs ive covered the cost of the pannels with FIT payments ,in fact as of today im £1500 up on my original investment , plus theres whatever electric i got off the pannels so now the FIT is all profit. and it looks like im going to be getting over 60p per unit of electric from the FIT.
The thoughts on batterys was just how much more i would save by adding batterys - asked for a smart meter and EDF messed it up , got one for gas but not for electric , once i know how much im sending back guess i will have more idea about batterys

Wow! If you are getting 60p per unit (kWh) on your FIT, then I think you will find it very difficult to justify a battery.

Is this 60p really right? I ask because the replacement for the FIT scheme, the Smart Export Guarantee (SEG) only pays 5p to 6p per unit!

If you had a smart meter you would probably find that you export ~70% of what your panels produce per year, unless you use huge amounts of electricity during the daytime. By storing that electricity in a battery and using it when your panels are not producing you will be saving 15p to 20p per unit (kWh), which is way below what the FIT scheme is paying you.

Surely you are better off selling your surplus at 60p and buying it back at 20p?

FD

60p is about right. I'm getting 56p for the generation tariff and another 4p for the export tariff. I got mine in the early days too. Mine cost about £12k.

I think you may misunderstand the FIT tariff though. It's not possible to sell the surplus at 60p, only 4-5p as outlined above. In my case I get 4p for my export and it's assumed I export half. I don't actually know how much I export but I'm pretty sure it's significantly lower than 50%. I have only electricity and both myself and my wife work from home.

In principle I could also get battery storage and still get paid the export tariff but even with that the payback doesn't work by a very very long way. Battery storage costs isn't economic for homeowners. Hopefully one day it will be.

[BullDog]

Thanks everyone for their views

I Installed solar panels in the early days when they cost £13k , back in 2011 , In those 10 yrs ive covered the cost of the pannels with FIT payments ,in fact as of today im £1500 up on my original investment , plus theres whatever electric i got off the pannels so now the FIT is all profit. and it looks like im going to be getting over 60p per unit of electric from the FIT.
The thoughts on batterys was just how much more i would save by adding batterys - asked for a smart meter and EDF messed it up , got one for gas but not for electric , once i know how much im sending back guess i will have more idea about batterys

Wow! If you are getting 60p per unit (kWh) on your FIT, then I think you will find it very difficult to justify a battery.

Is this 60p really right? I ask because the replacement for the FIT scheme, the Smart Export Guarantee (SEG) only pays 5p to 6p per unit!

If you had a smart meter you would probably find that you export ~70% of what your panels produce per year, unless you use huge amounts of electricity during the daytime. By storing that electricity in a battery and using it when your panels are not producing you will be saving 15p to 20p per unit (kWh), which is way below what the FIT scheme is paying you.

Surely you are better off selling your surplus at 60p and buying it back at 20p?

FD

60p is about right. I'm getting 56p for the generation tariff and another 4p for the export tariff. I got mine in the early days too. Mine cost about £12k.

I think you may misunderstand the FIT tariff though. It's not possible to sell the surplus at 60p, only 4-5p as outlined above. In my case I get 4p for my export and it's assumed I export half. I don't actually know how much I export but I'm pretty sure it's significantly lower than 50%. I have only electricity and both myself and my wife work from home.

In principle I could also get battery storage and still get paid the export tariff but even with that the payback doesn't work by a very very long way. Battery storage costs isn't economic for homeowners. Hopefully one day it will be.

I suspect that day might arrive when there's huge stockpiles of used batteries from EVs available. If I recall correctly, when no longer suitable for EV use, there's a second life possible as battery storage. I seem to remember Nissan are developing this for batteries removed from Nissan Leaf EVs. Soon there might be more batteries available than anyone knows what to do with!

[scrumpyjack]

I certainly use all the electricity that my panels produce because it is a big house, we are here the whole time and in summer the pool water pump, heat pump and dehumidifier are set to use the midday sun electricity. So, in spite of putting virtually no electricity into the grid I get paid about 60p per unit for 3,250kw pa. It was an insane scheme when introduced as the main consequence was to provide a huge subsidy to Chinese solar panel manufacturers so they could build up their manufacturing industry. Was it the LibDems? I can't recall.

[UncleEbenezer]

I think we are just at the beginning of electricity tariff reviews and tampering. It's all a bit of an energy maelstrom.

It's certainly is. I'd like to know how someone in a flat on the 9th floor of a high rise is going to charge their electric car let alone find somewhere to locate a large storage battery etc

I lived for a while in a flat on, as it happens, the ninth floor of a high rise. To be strictly accurate, a mid-size block: there were just two floors above mine, though other blocks in the 2000-home estate were much higher.

I didn't have a car. But in common with others in the estate, I did have a designated underground parking space, plus additional secure underground storage (where I kept the bike). Nowadays even if the management hasn't installed electric charge points for everyone, it would be available to individual flat owners or residents, as an alternative to charging their cars at work, or in the supermarket car park while shopping, or similar options.

[richlist]

Don't really understand how a flat dweller with an underground park space can charge his/her car unless the installers can cleverly link the car charger to their flat on the 9th floor.

Neither do I understand how someone living in a terraced house with on street parking can be expected to charge their car.......currently I'd say it's impossible.

Many people don't have the option of charging their car at work.......their employer doesn't have any chargers or there aren't enough to go round or they don't work anywhere that is likely to have a charger e.g. a building site, small local industry, on a farm, a school or college, local Government et c etc.

The infrastructure just doesn't exist. 2030 ?......in your dreams.

[UncleEbenezer]

Don't really understand how a flat dweller with an underground park space can charge his/her car unless the installers can cleverly link the car charger to their flat on the 9th floor.

Neither do I understand how someone living in a terraced house with on street parking can be expected to charge their car.......currently I'd say it's impossible.

Many people don't have the option of charging their car at work.......their employer doesn't have any chargers or there aren't enough to go round or they don't work anywhere that is likely to have a charger e.g. a building site, small local industry, on a farm, a school or college, local Government et c etc.

The infrastructure just doesn't exist. 2030 ?......in your dreams.

I'm not in a flat now, but a house which is part of a converted industrial building. Five houses in total. And we too have underground parking, albeit not so well-organised as in the flat I mentioned.

Next door has a Tesla. He has a charging point in the underground parking area. Of course he dealt with installing that himself.

For a big estate like the one I mentioned before, I expect the most efficient thing would be for the block's management to deal with installing chargers as a job lot, and linking them to individual flats. Failing that, an individual owner could liaise with the supplier to deal with linking the physically separate supply to the flat's account.

[richlist]

Leasehold flats will have their own unique issues. I've owned many flats over the past 25 years of letting property. It doesn't matter where the flat owners reserved park bay is located.....Neither the management company or the freeholders are likely to install a car charger without an incentive. Currently there aren't any incentives.

[DrFfybes]

I think we are just at the beginning of electricity tariff reviews and tampering. It's all a bit of an energy maelstrom.

It's certainly is. I'd like to know how someone in a flat on the 9th floor of a high rise is going to charge their electric car let alone find somewhere to locate a large storage battery etc

Great question. From where I am sitting, you literally cannot count all the apartments. There's so many

How many of those flat dwellers own a car?

The battery storage would have to be communal for a block/area. Comunal storage of 194MWh deliverable at 150MW has been done...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornsdale_Power_Reserve

At about 50p per single Watt it ain't cheap to install

Paul

[BullDog]

I think we are just at the beginning of electricity tariff reviews and tampering. It's all a bit of an energy maelstrom.

It's certainly is. I'd like to know how someone in a flat on the 9th floor of a high rise is going to charge their electric car let alone find somewhere to locate a large storage battery etc

Great question. From where I am sitting, you literally cannot count all the apartments. There's so many

How many of those flat dwellers own a car?

The battery storage would have to be communal for a block/area. Comunal storage of 194MWh deliverable at 150MW has been done...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornsdale_Power_Reserve

At about 50p per single Watt it ain't cheap to install

Paul

Given there's too many apartments to count, I can't tell you. What I can tell you is the apartment block I was sitting in when I posted that is part of a development of 7, each 15 stories high. The underground parking must have at least 500 spaces, probably many more. Too many to count. All the spaces are taken and there's always requests on social media for a vacant space. 500 x chargers? How will the block's electrical infrastructure support that when all those spaces are occupied overnight?

[DrFfybes]

How many of those flat dwellers own a car?



Paul

Given there's too many apartments to count, I can't tell you. What I can tell you is the apartment block I was sitting in when I posted that is part of a development of 7, each 15 stories high. The underground parking must have at least 500 spaces, probably many more. Too many to count. All the spaces are taken and there's always requests on social media for a vacant space. 500 x chargers? How will the block's electrical infrastructure support that when all those spaces are occupied overnight?

How many of those spaces are full during the day? Do all 500 vehicles funnel out of the exit each morning, drive 100 miles or so to somewhere where there will be no charging facilities, and return the following night in a state where they would NEED to charge up were they electric?

I'm not saying it won't be a problem, but with the luxury of underground parking it is likely a system can be installed where chargers are available to be booked or shared. It won't be easy, or simple, but people are going to have to adapt.

You don't say where this is, but housing that dense suggests a commuter belt, where improved public transport would have to be part of the solution.

[scrumpyjack]

I guess cars would only need to charge once or twice a week so it would be absurd to have a charger for every car. Without an excessively long lead it should be fine having one charge point for, say, every 4 cars.

[richlist]

I live in the real world of NOW, not some utopian future world post 2030. In my world most electric cars are hybrids. Some are plug in with a ridiculously inaccurately marketed range of 35 miles. The majority of these vehicles need charging on a daily basis not twice a week.

[Howard]

I live in the real world of NOW, not some utopian future world post 2030. In my world most electric cars are hybrids. Some are plug in with a ridiculously inaccurately marketed range of 35 miles. The majority of these vehicles need charging on a daily basis not twice a week.

Yes, you are right. But in your (and my) real world they just plug into a 13 amp socket. We had a plug in hybrid which was plugged in virtually every night for two years. Only took a few hours to fully charge from empty.

regards

Howard

[richlist]

I agree with you entirely Howard but I think your missing the point. The person living in the high rise flat or using on street parking doesnt have safe access to even a 13 amp socket let alone a dedicated charge point.

Half the country live in properties totally unsuited to car charging. I own flats where everyone has a reserved park bay but they are on the other side of the road to the building. The cost of laying in a power supply to those park bays would be very large and additional to the cost of a charge point. That's just one example, it's not impossible to achieve a solution but it's very unlikely that anyone will be prepared to pay.

Not everyone is fortunate enough to be a home owner with a drive and the funds necessary for a charger.

[BobbyD]

I live in the real world of NOW, not some utopian future world post 2030. In my world most electric cars are hybrids. Some are plug in with a ridiculously inaccurately marketed range of 35 miles. The majority of these vehicles need charging on a daily basis not twice a week.

At the moment there aren't enough EV's being produced to satisfy demand from those who do have a driveway or garage in which to charge. With time BEV's will become dominant over hybrids, and charging capability and infrastructure will improve. We don't need an infrastructure which can support 100% electric fleet when electric cars represent a tiny percentage of the UK motor fleet, and when we do need it it won't be nearly as daunting as the infrastructure which would be required to support 100% BEV fleet today.

[richlist]

I live in the real world of NOW, not some utopian future world post 2030. In my world most electric cars are hybrids. Some are plug in with a ridiculously inaccurately marketed range of 35 miles. The majority of these vehicles need charging on a daily basis not twice a week.

At the moment there aren't enough EV's being produced to satisfy demand from those who do have a driveway or garage in which to charge. With time BEV's will become dominant over hybrids, and charging capability and infrastructure will improve. We don't need an infrastructure which can support 100% electric fleet when electric cars represent a tiny percentage of the UK motor fleet, and when we do need it it won't be nearly as daunting as the infrastructure which would be required to support 100% BEV fleet today.

Well that doesn't answer the problem we have now.

How do the 50%+ of the UK population......the ones who park their car in the street or on some remote park bay.......how will they charge their cars ?

[UncleEbenezer]

How do the 50%+ of the UK population......the ones who park their car in the street or on some remote park bay.......how will they charge their cars ?

What about those with petrol cars but no pump at home?

Electric chargers are better-placed than petrol stations, at places where one might want to park a car while doing something like shopping or a leisure activity. A win-win if you don't have to wait around while you recharge but can go off and do something productive or pleasurable.