Energy Saving

[Dod101]

Completed List.

Turned Heating down.
Turned fridge up
Turned hotwater down
Fill up a flask of boiling water on E7 for tea/coffee.
Staying in kitchen/dining room longer harvesting post cooking oven heat
Rinse dishes in cold water (after washing in hot!)
All bulbs now LED.
Close window coverings as soon as it's dark.
Use Washing Machine only on E7 & using a shorter/cooler program
Use Shower only on E7
Thermal Baselayer (only the top at the moment, bottoms later)
Thermal fingerless gloves
Thermal socks
Electric footwarmer
USB electric fingerless gloves.
Put a bigger bag of insulation above loft door.

Next year. Consider HHR Storage heater / solar panels / battery / heat pump / improved cavity wall insulation.

I think that's it. So basically just a change in habits. Some of the changes may seems quite small, but when you add them up and spread them over, say 50% of 28 million households........

Quite seriously, not sure that turning the fridge up is necessarily a good idea for much the same reason that turning hot water down is but in any case you are well ahead of me, although my main bulbs for instance are all LED. Surprising how little I use some lights so have just left them at least until the bulbs blow.

I do not feel the cold much anyway, but I could not sit around the house in thermals and an electric footwarmer?

Dod

[DrFfybes]

Completed List.

Fill up a flask of boiling water on E7 for tea.

You don't use fresh boiling water for tea?

Wierdo.

Paul (sat on the settee on top of a heated car seat cover)

[pje16]

You don't use fresh boiling water for tea?
Wierdo.
Paul (sat on the settee on top of a heated car seat cover)

Why not... I do
Well, fresh from the tap

[DrFfybes]

Completed List.

Fill up a flask of boiling water on E7 for tea.

You don't use fresh boiling water for tea?

Wierdo.

Paul (sat on the settee on top of a heated car seat cover)

I was going to do some clever maths on this, but as I was boiling spuds for tea.......

I put 2 pints of cold water into the kettle. It took just under 3 minutes to boil, and is rated at 3kW, so that's about 1.5p in electric. A large flask is probably a litre, so at peak rate Snorvey will be paying just over a penny, compared to whatever the rate is on E7.

Even ignoring the point that this is really taking parsimony to the extreme, you're going to need to do it for a long long time to pay for the flask

Paul

[Itsallaguess]

My heated gillet is a lithium ion battery heated one bought years ago from an angling supplier I think.

I wear it if I go to watch the football for example and when I used to go into the office.

Monday mornings were Baltic in there. Even on the lowest setting, under a heavy coat it lasts about 6 hours.

Hi Snorvey,

Just to follow up on the above, I did some research on some of the new USB-operated heated-gillets, and a few weeks ago bought one of these -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adjustable-Temperature-Electric-Rechargeable-Included/dp/B08F5D7Y9C

There's a huge range of types and prices for these things, but I'm pleased to say that I'm over the moon with it, and have just enjoyed a desk-bound morning in my back office, with no need for any other heating at all, on one of the coldest days of the Autumn up to now.

It's got three easily-selected heat-settings, and I've been using the lowest setting and wearing it over a t-shirt and thin jumper, and it's been brilliant. I can't actually imagine needing to use the medium or high setting, but having given them a brief test, they're certainly going to be useful if I'm ever in much colder situations.

I've been using it with a thin and light 10,000mAh USB power-bank, which fits into the inside pocket of the gillet really well -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/INIU-High-Speed-Flashlight-Powerbank-Compatible/dp/B07PNL5STG

I think I could probably get around two full days on the lowest heat-setting from the above power-bank, and I've got larger power-banks available if required, but I think that 10,000mah size-format is looking to be a bit of a sweet-spot for long enough periods of comfort when set against weight and portability. I've also had it plugged into a normal 2A USB wall-plug when sat at my desk for long periods as well, which saves on the faff with having to eventually recharge the power-bank.

Overall I'm very pleased with the above, and I think I'll get a huge amount of use out of this heated gillet over the coming winter. The sizing chart is a bit off on the product page, and I had to send the first one back because it was much smaller than the chart indicated it should be, but swapping for the next size up has given me a warm gillet that's still fairly snug to the body, which helps to transfer the generated heat of course, but which also leaves enough wiggle-room for it to be functional when worn over long periods.

One bonus that swayed me towards the above gillet is the number of discrete heating areas, and especially the little one around the back of the collar, which is a great and welcome little touch on this particular design.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[pje16]

In case of emergency power cuts and for outdoor use as well I got one of these

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0B6J718YX/

[chas49]

The sizing chart is a bit off on the product page, and I had to send the first one back because it was much smaller than the chart indicated it should be, but swapping for the next size up has given me a warm gillet that's still fairly snug to the body, which helps to transfer the generated heat of course, but which also leaves enough wiggle-room for it to be functional when worn over long periods.

Interested to know how much 'out' you think the sizing chart is? I note the product page says:

According to the feedback from buyers last year, the size of vests has been optimized this year, which is a little smaller than that in 2021. So when you are going to buy, you can read the size chart carefully.

Is it just a question of going up one size?

[Itsallaguess]

The sizing chart is a bit off on the product page, and I had to send the first one back because it was much smaller than the chart indicated it should be, but swapping for the next size up has given me a warm gillet that's still fairly snug to the body, which helps to transfer the generated heat of course, but which also leaves enough wiggle-room for it to be functional when worn over long periods.

Interested to know how much 'out' you think the sizing chart is? I note the product page says:

According to the feedback from buyers last year, the size of vests has been optimized this year, which is a little smaller than that in 2021. So when you are going to buy, you can read the size chart carefully.

Is it just a question of going up one size?

It was frustrating really, because they're allowing a great product to receive continued and completely warranted criticism over something so stupid over sizing.

It's clear from pre-2022 reviews that there was an issue with their previous sizing guides, and yet they've obviously now updated their product page with a 'new' size-chart, and are trying to sound as though people can have confidence in this new sizing regime, which from my experience and other recent reviews that have similar sizing issues, is clearly still not working out for people.

As it happened, I made the mistake, if that's what we might call it, of following their new advice, and I 'read the size chart carefully', and I was surprised to find that their new size-chart suggested that a 'Small' would be completely adequate for my chest size. Now in any normal circumstance, I'd have ignored that 'Small' suggestion, as I would never normally fit in any upper-body clothing marked 'Small' in my adult life, and 'Medium' or 'Large' would always be the two options that I'd normally purchase tops in, but given their clear recent instructions and the admitted earlier issues with sizing, I trusted them on their chart and went for a 'Small'...

And yes, you've probably already deducted that when it was delivered, it was far too tight for me, and when I actually opened it up and measured it physically against their own new sizing-chart, it was nowhere near the sizing range they say it should be. So it went back, and I ordered a 'Medium', which going by the new sizing-chart should be too baggy on me, but in actual fact is absolutely perfect for wearing over a couple of upper layers and which is the way I'd want to wear it in normal circumstances.

So my advice would be for people to perhaps use the chart size to get 'the manufacturers' recommended size, and then to simply ignore that size and go one up. I wish I'd done that to start with, but I'm also glad that I persevered with the sizing swap-out, because I'm actually over the moon with the gillet, and I'm going to get tons of use out of it, both plugged into a 2A USB wall-plug at my desk when working, and also on portable USB power-bank power when that's not suitable. I should also add that whilst it was a frustration to have to swap it out, the whole Amazon process was free and very swift, so top marks on that side of things at least. Obviously, they've had lots of practice of course...

One other thing I forgot to mention in my previous post was that it's thin and neat enough that it'll go under my outdoor jackets once the really cold weather starts to land, so I suspect I'll also be getting some use out of it outdoors as well in a few months time...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[kiloran]

Just to follow up on the above, I did some research on some of the new USB-operated heated-gillets, and a few weeks ago bought one of these -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adjustable-Temperature-Electric-Rechargeable-Included/dp/B08F5D7Y9C

Itsallaguess

If it's waterproof, you could save even more on water heating by wearing it while having a cold shower

--kiloran

[DrFfybes]

Well, that's it, I've given up. It has been an interesting exercise to not use the gas, helped by the mild weather, but.....

Sat on a heated pad on the settee last night, throw over my legs, dog over the throw, 2 jumpers, and the room at 12C, and I thought "sod it". The boiler costs about a quid an hour in gas, our portfolio regularly goes up and down by 5 figures in a day, so why the **** are sat here shivering to save a bit of gas use whenjudging by the condensing flumes throughout the village nobody else is.

The room stat is set to 12.5, most of the rads are on 'frost' setting apart from the lounge, bathroom, and bedroom, so I've set the heating for an hour in the morning and 30 min before bed. The heating went off about 40 min ago, and the lounge is already back down to 12C, so it isnt warming the house up, simpy taking the chill off the air.

I'll take a readings every week or so as I always have, just to see if the boiler is more efficient and monitor the usage as winter draws on, but all this parsimony has a limit.

And I splashed out on a takeaway last night as MrsF is away for the weekend - best burn the containers before she returns

Paul

[Gersemi]

I've been having the heating on for an hour in the morning and an hour early evening for the past week, but I capitulated yesterday and put it on again for a couple of hours in the afternoon. I find that anything below 16C is uncomfortable, and like you I can afford to have it on - though I have a smart meter (the electricity bit doesn't work any more, but the gas does) and it is quite alarming to see how much it costs. It's warmer today, so I've left the timer at just the two hours, but I'm contemplating putting it up to two hours morning and evening.

[Itsallaguess]

Well, that's it, I've given up. It has been an interesting exercise to not use the gas, helped by the mild weather, but.....

Sat on a heated pad on the settee last night, throw over my legs, dog over the throw, 2 jumpers, and the room at 12C, and I thought "sod it".

The boiler costs about a quid an hour in gas, our portfolio regularly goes up and down by 5 figures in a day, so why the **** are sat here shivering to save a bit of gas use when judging by the condensing flumes throughout the village nobody else is.

After the recent abnormal UK warm spell, I think we're definitely well into that type of territory now, with more normal colder temperatures probably here to stay for quite a while, so I think for those of us who have also been looking to economise in recent months and heading into the winter, your thoughts are likely to be resonating with many others this weekend as well, I think...

We've had our living room gas fire on for a few hours over a couple of nights this week, when everyone is back in from work and school, and like you, I will not allow the house to be too cold for comfort where there's other people home for longer periods.

I'm still happy to take a different approach during the working day when I'm the only one at home though, and as someone in their third year of working from home now, my primary aim during the colder months has always been to keep the additional impact on my energy bills from not being on-site to a minimum where possibly, whilst still trying to maintain as much economic personal comfort as possible, and armed with some improved personal-warming gear this winter compared to the last two, I think I will manage an additional reduction in electricity usage where over the last two winters I've had good use out of a 1.5kW oil-filled radiator set to it's lowest output of 600W, which I've used to keep my back office warm for much of the last two winters, but I think with the addition of my new heated gillet, I expect not to need that 600W room-warming facility anywhere near as much as I have during the last two winter periods.

We'll see how long we can get away with just using the living room gas fire in the evenings for a while, but I do think it'll now only be a short period before I open up the house radiators and allow the boiler to deliver some broader home-warmth, instead of it's summer configuration of only heating the bathroom towel-radiator.

As you quite rightly say - there's a point where economising crosses the line into self-flagellation, and whilst it's only right and proper for us here on the 'Living Below Your Means' board to be looking to economise where it's possible and appropriate to do so, there comes a point where comfort definitely trumps cost, and I think if we've not crossed that line during the colder period this week, then the ribbon must definitely be just around the next corner...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[88V8]

Another capitulator here.... for the first time this winter lit the woodburner in the dining room last night and sat in there for dinner instead of in the kitchen.
So it was out with the candles, the napery, put on some music, it was rather pleasant.

Then lit the woodburner in the sitting room as it was 60F in there and my lighting threshold is 62F and that was nice as well.

Then went mad and turned on some of the storage heaters on low settings.

Now I see from the forecast it's going to get warmer....

V8

[DrFfybes]

Then went mad and turned on some of the storage heaters on low settings.

Now I see from the forecast it's going to get warmer....

V8

Those storage heaters should just about be working by then .

Glad to see the nights are getting warmer, we are quite exposed and the house temp plummets after sundown on a cold evening. Temporary relief I assume.

Paul

[DrFfybes]

Well, that's it, I've given up. It has been an interesting exercise to not use the gas, helped by the mild weather, but.....

Sat on a heated pad on the settee last night, throw over my legs, dog over the throw, 2 jumpers, and the room at 12C, and I thought "sod it". The boiler costs about a quid an hour in gas, our portfolio regularly goes up and down by 5 figures in a day, so why the **** are sat here shivering to save a bit of gas use whenjudging by the condensing flumes throughout the village nobody else is.

Paul

Pussy.

That's me...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szDIgws ... rt_radio=1

[funduffer]

I find this map interesting:

https://www.tado.com/gb-en/press/uk-hom ... neighbours

It shows the UK has the worst levels of insulation in Europe. It measures how much temperature drop there is from 20C in the house when the outside temperature is zero, over 5 hours. A 3C drop is bad (UK), 1C is the best (Norway)

I have been looking at the performance in my living room. I have looked at days when the temperature is 20C indoors at bedtime and a cold night around freezing. The temperature drops about 2.5C in the first 5 hours after the heating goes off, which is pretty bad but better than the UK average. This is despite having cavity wall insulation, double glazing, 20 inches of loft insulation (it is a bungalow) and under-floor insulation. I concluded recently that heat is escaping through the large bay window, so I have installed a thermal blind behind the curtains. I need to gather a bit more data as there have not been many cold nights so far, but first impression is that it has made a noticeable difference. If I raise the blind first thing in the morning, the room temperature drops quite suddenly, which suggests it is effective. I have also put a thermometer behind the blind in the bay, and the temperature there is about 4C lower than in the room first thing in the morning.

My next step is to hire a thermal imaging camera and go out one cold night and take a few pictures to see where heat is escaping.

Has anyone tried this? Did you learn anything?

FD

[DrFfybes]

My next step is to hire a thermal imaging camera and go out one cold night and take a few pictures to see where heat is escaping.

Has anyone tried this? Did you learn anything?

FD

Our parish council has one for loan, some sort of community initiative. Check your area to see if anyone is doing the same.

Paul

[88V8]

My next step is to hire a thermal imaging camera and go out one cold night and take a few pictures to see where heat is escaping.
Has anyone tried this? Did you learn anything?

No, but I'm sure one would.
Digital Camera World write-up here.
If you buy one you can use it to check incremental improvements, many available on eBay where you could resell your choice after it's done its job.

V8

[Dod101]

As if we didn't know, the biggest obstacle to the UKs energy problems is, and always has been, our government.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63477214

Everything that is broken in this country is down to the government (of whatever brand)

That is true, but who else is going to take charge of the public services? But fundamentally, things work; it is just that we have much higher expectations now than we used to have. As Nicola Sturgeon would not quite say, 'You think things are bad here?'

In any case, reliance on gas is nothing new. Long before the days of natural gas from the North Sea, we had coal gas, in my time mostly for cooking and gas fires for heating, long before central heating was commonplace. Every town at its gasometers, so when natural gas became available, it was obvious that it would simply take the place of coal gas, and the popularity of central heating when living standards allowed for it increased the demand no end so that we have ended up with having to import the stuff.

Governments are not very good at thinking strategically as they have a short time frame so nothing will happen until matters are forced upon them. like now.

Dod

[scotview]

Governments are not very good at thinking strategically as they have a short time frame so nothing will happen until matters are forced upon them. like now.
Dod

Agreed, but there are two additional factors as far as UK energy is concerned:

1 We don't know if Putin has a strategy for the Norwegian Gas pipelines to the UK.

2 To get us back to stable, secure and self sufficient UK energy will need a lead time of probably five years (10 at least for nuclear)