Well that was a slap in the face with a wet fish - Electric & Gas Costs - Some Thoughts

[Mike4]

ps I'm ignoring the doomsters who claim the minute smoke particles will kill us

You can squabble with them by pointing out by burning wood not gas, you're not contributing to the global warming problem like they are, and they should be more socially responsible.

[tjh290633]

Does nobody else hang their washing on a line these days? I am amazed at the apparently widespread use of tumble driers. Our last washing machine incorporated a tumble driers, but we never had occasion to use it in about 20 years.

On the other hand, we are on our third rotary clothes line whirlygig in 44 years.

TJH

[BullDog]

Does nobody else hang their washing on a line these days? I am amazed at the apparently widespread use of tumble driers. Our last washing machine incorporated a tumble driers, but we never had occasion to use it in about 20 years.

On the other hand, we are on our third rotary clothes line whirlygig in 44 years.

TJH

Yes. When I can do that, I do.

[Lootman]

Does nobody else hang their washing on a line these days? I am amazed at the apparently widespread use of tumble driers. Our last washing machine incorporated a tumble driers, but we never had occasion to use it in about 20 years.

On the other hand, we are on our third rotary clothes line whirlygig in 44 years.

Anyone who lives in a flat rather than a house is almost obliged to use a dryer.

We still dry things on a line in the garden although in the winter that can be the triumph of hope over experience. We have a south-facing conservatory which is handy for drying as well, if the sun isn't too feeble. And a basement with a dehumidifier.

So we rarely use our dryer. But for towels and sheets in winter, then yes, we sin.

[UncleEbenezer]

ps I'm ignoring the doomsters who claim the minute smoke particles will kill us

You can squabble with them by pointing out by burning wood not gas, you're not contributing to the global warming problem like they are, and they should be more socially responsible.

Not true. Burning wood emits large amounts of CO2.

You could say it's an accelerated fossil fuel cycle. Put the carbon from biomass into the atmosphere, bypassing the millions of years it takes to transform from living biomass to fossil fuel. And dirty, in the sense that coal was dirty before the 1950s clean air acts.

[UncleEbenezer]

Does nobody else hang their washing on a line these days? I am amazed at the apparently widespread use of tumble driers. Our last washing machine incorporated a tumble driers, but we never had occasion to use it in about 20 years.

On the other hand, we are on our third rotary clothes line whirlygig in 44 years.

Anyone who lives in a flat rather than a house is almost obliged to use a dryer.

I've lived more of my life in flats than in houses. Mostly without a dryer.

[Nimrod103]

ps I'm ignoring the doomsters who claim the minute smoke particles will kill us

You can squabble with them by pointing out by burning wood not gas, you're not contributing to the global warming problem like they are, and they should be more socially responsible.

Not true. Burning wood emits large amounts of CO2.

You could say it's an accelerated fossil fuel cycle. Put the carbon from biomass into the atmosphere, bypassing the millions of years it takes to transform from living biomass to fossil fuel. And dirty, in the sense that coal was dirty before the 1950s clean air acts.

But wood is a very temporary store of carbon, which is returned to the atmosphere either by burning, or by rotting in the soil. It is only in rare anaerobic conditions that fallen trees do not decay, and generally those anaerobic places are ephemeral, especially in the UK. If you look at soil profiles from most parts of the UK, you won't find much carbon there which has not be devoured by insects, microbes, worms and fungi, and given off as CO2.

[AsleepInYorkshire]

Thanks for a great post Aiy.

You use a dryer a lot it seems, maybe try just hanging the clothes up indoors, they dry in 24/48 hours.

You're welcome. Thank you too for your compliment and sincere advice.

Yes. The dryer does come up for negotiation at times of economic stress. I agree "we" do use the dryer a lot. It's a heat exchanger (or heat pump if you prefer) style of dryer, which is the most efficient on the market. We've owned it for about 4 years now (but don't quote me as I can't recall what I had for breakfast or even if I had breakfast ).The cost you see is for 6 loads a week and it holds 9kg per load.

So here's what we were up against when we purchased it. We both worked. I was out of the house for 12hrs a day. We had enough money but no time. My better half has been suffering with disc problems in her lower back. Indeed she's just had a double discectomy and is off work until the end of January. Ironing exacerbated her pain. The tumble dryer we have vastly reduces the need for ironing, which helped her. I don't iron .

Generally speaking we live below our means. But we do enjoy the benefit that we get from this tumble dryer. I agree it's more expensive than drying clothes outside in the summer and inside in winter. However, and to put some perspective on this cost it amounts to less than 0.20% of our monthly income. So yes I agree perhaps an extravagant expense but one which doesn't break our bank, thankfully

AiY(D)

[Lootman]

We turned the radiators off in two bedrooms we dont use and the thermostat in the hall is now down to 13.5 degrees. The heating is on for 5.5hrs per day. We've managed to reduce our gas usage by 26%.

Wait, your house is heated to only 13.5 C? That is 56 F in old money. Borderline freezing.

I'm living warmer than I have done in the past, as age catches up with me while money is no longer so tight.

But I can't imagine setting it that warm, unless I'm ill and lose my body's capacity to regulate temperature. As happened in Feb.2005, when I found out that the heating didn't work.

Evidently your wife is more understanding and flexible than mine. It took me forever to persuade her to turn down the thermostat from 20 to 18.

Does nobody else hang their washing on a line these days? I am amazed at the apparently widespread use of tumble driers. Our last washing machine incorporated a tumble driers, but we never had occasion to use it in about 20 years.

On the other hand, we are on our third rotary clothes line whirlygig in 44 years.

Anyone who lives in a flat rather than a house is almost obliged to use a dryer.

I've lived more of my life in flats than in houses. Mostly without a dryer.

Fair enough, and back in the day when I lived in flats there were no dryers and, for that matter, no central heating either.

But prospective tenants these days expect those things in a flat. They don't want to have to hang wet clothes in their living rooms or bedroom.

[DrFfybes]

Based on annual uage, your fish use more electric than our heating and immersion tank.... are they subletting?

The dryer does come up for negotiation at times of economic stress. [...].The cost you see is for 6 loads a week and it holds 9kg per load.

Not only are the fish subletting, but the rent incudes laundry.

[Lootman]

Not only are the fish subletting, but the rent incudes laundry.

I was a landlord from 1978 to 2010. By about 1980 I learned NEVER to include heating, hot water or laundry in with the rent because, when something is "free", then demand and use tends to infinity.

If I was not legally required to provide it, I didn't.

[AsleepInYorkshire]

Does nobody else hang their washing on a line these days? I am amazed at the apparently widespread use of tumble driers. Our last washing machine incorporated a tumble driers, but we never had occasion to use it in about 20 years.

On the other hand, we are on our third rotary clothes line whirlygig in 44 years.

TJH

Hi Mr. T,

I hope you are well and perhaps feeling a little Christmassy . If you have the room for a separate tumble dryer and washing machine and you feel it's an expense you want to go to I'd certainly recommend a tumble dryer. However, I'd only suggest the use of the heat exchanger style.

I'm assuming there are only two of you and in order to underwrite my advice above I'd say you would be looking at 57p per 9kg load and would only need to use the dryer max twice a week. But you wouldn't need to buy a 9kg/load dryer.

All that aside and going completely off topic I hope you have got your Christmas tree up too

Take care

AiY(D)

[AsleepInYorkshire]

Based on annual usage, your fish use more electric than our heating and immersion tank.... are they subletting?

The dryer does come up for negotiation at times of economic stress. [...].The cost you see is for 6 loads a week and it holds 9kg per load.

Not only are the fish subletting, but the rent incudes laundry.

Oh very droll

There's a reason Yorkshiremen are so tight. It's called Yorkshire women. I know one of you will tell on me

AiY(D)

[Kantwebefriends]

Our hall is at 16.5C and I'm sitting at my computer well wrapped up and perfectly comfortable. If the hall gets any cooler I might don my hat. If things get really cool I'm going to layer: old silk shirt to act as a vest, a thick cotton shirt, a hoody, a light fleece, a heavier fleece. I could cut holes in some old socks and wear them as gloves at the keyboard, like the gloves in some ancient telly version of Dickens.

(A friend of mine used to wear such gloves when he was an undergraduate at Cambridge in the late sixties. You can't do maths, he said, if your fingers get too cold. I said I didn't know that Cambridge maths involved counting on your fingers.)

I'm not too sure about washing socks and pants in cold water. That could invite fungal infections.

We are methodically replacing incandescent bulbs with energy-efficient ones though we still prefer the quality of light from the old ones. I'm good at turning off lights, my womenfolk less so.

We've been discussing buying an air fryer. Advice gratefully received.

P.S. A bloke in this morning's paper talked about heating his house by "collecting" fuel from a nearby wood. Unless he'd asked the owner's permission he meant "stealing".

[Lootman]

I'm not too sure about washing socks and pants in cold water. That could invite fungal infections.

Could it? We have been doing that for a while and, so far, our feet and extremities haven't turned green and fallen off.

Of course the water isn't "cold" - merely room temperature,

[Kantwebefriends]

For power cuts we've bought ourselves a couple of camping lanterns: you recharge the batteries with a hand crank or by using solar.

There's not much sunlight at the moment so they are recharging on the kitchen table, the best lit spot in our house. We claim this is "recycling light" and accordingly expect to be hailed as national heroes. Get your pans ready for banging at the roadside!

[Kantwebefriends]

I'm not too sure about washing socks and pants in cold water. That could invite fungal infections.

Could it? We have been doing that for a while and, so far, our feet and extremities haven't turned green and fallen off.

Of course the water isn't "cold" - merely room temperature,

The advice for anyone who gets Athlete's foot (and whatever Athlete's crotch is called) is to wash socks and pants in hot water so that the fungal spores are killed. Otherwise you will have great trouble getting rid of the infection.

[airbus330]

We have electric underfloor heating under ceramic tiles is our fairly large kitchen. It has always been a Kwh guzzler, but it is a nice luxury to have. I have never calculated its individual electricity use as it was too scary. In an attempt to economise I had a large radiator fitted and connected to the existing CH during the summer. For our November utility bill, with the weather being fairly similar to last year, our electric consumption is down by 35% and our gas up by 10%. A good saving which will repay the expense of the rad by winters end.

On another note, many have commented on their use of Log Burners, which we also have. People don't seem to be worried about the cost of logs which have gone up substantially, particularly the kiln dried one. We estimate that our log bill will be £300 this winter. I'm outside sawing up old pallets to ease the pain!

[Mike4]

ps I'm ignoring the doomsters who claim the minute smoke particles will kill us

You can squabble with them by pointing out by burning wood not gas, you're not contributing to the global warming problem like they are, and they should be more socially responsible.

Not true. Burning wood emits large amounts of CO2.

You could say it's an accelerated fossil fuel cycle. Put the carbon from biomass into the atmosphere, bypassing the millions of years it takes to transform from living biomass to fossil fuel. And dirty, in the sense that coal was dirty before the 1950s clean air acts.

Aha, I was hoping to lead someone into saying that.

A friend of mine is a it of an eco warrior and he says yeabutnobutyeahbut wood stoves are fine. The CO2 I'm releasing is 'young CO2' captured by the tree just 30 or 40 years ago, which then ALL gets recaptured when another tree grows to replace it so the process is 'carbon neutral'. You gas burners out there are releasing CO2 captured over millions of years and it won't get re-captured any time soon by the process that created it so it just accumulates in the atmosphere.

Intuitively there feels like something wrong or flawed with this argument, but I can't put my finger on what. Do enlighten me so I can feed it back to him!

[servodude]

ps I'm ignoring the doomsters who claim the minute smoke particles will kill us

You can squabble with them by pointing out by burning wood not gas, you're not contributing to the global warming problem like they are, and they should be more socially responsible.

Not true. Burning wood emits large amounts of CO2.

You could say it's an accelerated fossil fuel cycle. Put the carbon from biomass into the atmosphere, bypassing the millions of years it takes to transform from living biomass to fossil fuel. And dirty, in the sense that coal was dirty before the 1950s clean air acts.

Aha, I was hoping to lead someone into saying that.

A friend of mine is a it of an eco warrior and he says yeabutnobutyeahbut wood stoves are fine. The CO2 I'm releasing is 'young CO2' captured by the tree just 30 or 40 years ago, which then ALL gets recaptured when another tree grows to replace it so the process is 'carbon neutral'. You gas burners out there are releasing CO2 captured over millions of years and it won't get re-captured any time soon by the process that created it so it just accumulates in the atmosphere.

Intuitively there feels like something wrong or flawed with this argument, but I can't put my finger on what. Do enlighten me so I can feed it back to him!

At one level it doesn't matter where the CO2 in the atmosphere comes from - it all causes the same problem. From that perspective to claim log generated emissions are better is Horlicks. Any "capture" after the event would equally apply to CO2 from anywhere and you might also apply the "it's ok a tree will catch it" logic to all of it (and with enough trees being planted that would work)

Logs however are a sustainable source of fuel - you can replace them in a relatively short time scale. Which you can't do with other sources given our current shortage of dinosaurs and the geological timescales involved in rendering them in to easily moved material.


-sd