TfL Older Persons’ Freedom Pass and 60+ Oyster changes

[NomoneyNohoney]

From an email:-
"From Wednesday 18 January 2023, the temporary suspension of free travel for Older Persons’ Freedom Pass and 60+ Oyster photocard holders between 04:30 and 09:00 on weekdays, which was put in place during the pandemic, will become permanent.

Why this decision
Low ridership during the pandemic has had a devastating impact on TfL’s finances. TfL has had to therefore obtain extraordinary funding from the government to keep running.

The government funding came with conditions to generate more income. This is why the Mayor had previously outlined a number of fares proposals which he was having to explore in order to generate income.

What this means for you
If you hold an Older Persons’ Freedom Pass you will need to pay for travel between 04:30 and 09:00 on weekdays.

You will still be able to travel free on TfL’s services from 09:00 on Mondays to Fridays and at all times during the weekends and bank holidays.

Disabled Persons Freedom Pass holders are not affected by this change.

Your options
If you need to travel before 09:00 can use pay as you go with your contactless method provided by your debit or credit card account, or an Oyster card. Oyster cards can be topped up at station ticket machines, local newsagents, online and via the TfL app.

Further Information: Please contact TfL or visit their website"

Just a fyi...

[pje16]

Why this decision
Just a fyi...

It was first brought in when return to work took place, to help prevent overcrowding in rush hour as Covid was still a threat
Now it is just to make money (what a surprise)

[bluedonkey]

Not sure why the threshold for free travel is 60 years old rather than the state pension age. Seems too young.

[pje16]

Not sure why the threshold for free travel is 60 years old rather than the state pension age. Seems too young.

don't knockit , it suits me

[bluedonkey]

Not sure why the threshold for free travel is 60 years old rather than the state pension age. Seems too young.

don't knockit , it suits me

Me too.

[UncleEbenezer]

Not sure why the threshold for free travel is 60 years old rather than the state pension age. Seems too young.

'Cos Londoners get more handouts than others?

Why anyone? That is to say, whatever terms you offer, why restrict them by age? All these ages are arbitrary.

[pje16]

'Cos Londoners get more handouts than others?

more examples please

[mc2fool]

Not sure why the threshold for free travel is 60 years old rather than the state pension age. Seems too young.

The age for the English National Concessionary Travel Scheme bus pass, which is centrally funded by government, was set, for both men and women, at the pensionable age for women, and as such rose from 60 at its inception to 66 along with that.

However, local authorities are free to offer additional locally funded concessions if they want, and the mayor of London at the time of the increase, a certain Mr Boris Johnson, decided that for Londoners it should stay at 60. This is, of course, paid for by Londoners out of their council taxes, as is the additional modes of transport in London (over buses) that the Freedom Pass and 60+ cards give free travel on.

Full history etc: https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01499/SN01499.pdf

[Arborbridge]

'Cos Londoners get more handouts than others?

more examples please

Well, the Freedom pass is a wonderful extra by itself and having moved out of Town, I miss it dreadfully.

Handout or not, it provides much wanted extra business in London and might regarded as sensible seed-corn expenditure by the government or councils or whoever pays. It must be well worth the investment - when I had a Freedom pass I would often buzz up to Town for some relatively trivial event (exhibition, lunchtime concert, rehearsal) and in doing so spend money in various haunts, which I would not otherwise do.
So easy to pop to some event then buy refreshment, lunch or whatever while you are there - not something you would do if shelling out for a travelcard each time.

This is a genuinely civilised investment both for the economy and the mental well being of older people. I suspect giving a handout to 60 year olds is also perfectly sensible as they are very active and may go up more frequently to more expensive events than a 70 year old - it might even encourage some to stay in employment which they wouldn't do paying a full fare price.

To abolish or restrict further the Freedom pass or discounted Oyster would put more economic pressure on London businesses and would be extremely foolish, in my view.

[JohnB]

If its that good for the economy, why not offer free public transport to all? All this talk of forcing up fares for those forced to travel for work so others can swan around for museums and nice lunchees!

[pje16]

If its that good for the economy, why not offer free public transport to all? All this talk of forcing up fares for those forced to travel for work so others can swan around for museums and nice lunchees!

Where will TFL makes up the drop in income then?

[mc2fool]

If its that good for the economy, why not offer free public transport to all? All this talk of forcing up fares for those forced to travel for work so others can swan around for museums and nice lunchees!

As explained above, it's not forcing up fares, it's paid for out of general taxation for the English National Concessionary Travel Scheme bus pass and council taxes for everything above that. I thank you for your contribution.

[Arborbridge]

If its that good for the economy, why not offer free public transport to all? All this talk of forcing up fares for those forced to travel for work so others can swan around for museums and nice lunchees!

I may be wrong, but I believe some major cities abroad have free fares? It's just a different way of organising finances - nothing is impossible. Maybe there is some sense in having free transport for all - it keeps down pollution and stimulates trade.

Swan around museums is a bit unecessarily emotive: most of those older people spent years travelling to work themselves, and this is just one generation's appreciation of another - and it is an economic stimulus which is also helping to keep those working in Cities in a job: what's called enlightened self-interest. We've seen how dead the city centre economies were when Covid struck, and older people coming back to Town in larger numbers if transport is free, is part of the fabric.

I'd say there's an expression that fits your complaint: you are in danger of "cutting off your nose to spite your face".

Arb.

[Spet0789]

If its that good for the economy, why not offer free public transport to all? All this talk of forcing up fares for those forced to travel for work so others can swan around for museums and nice lunchees!

I may be wrong, but I believe some major cities abroad have free fares? It's just a different way of organising finances - nothing is impossible. Maybe there is some sense in having free transport for all - it keeps down pollution and stimulates trade.

Swan around museums is a bit unecessarily emotive: most of those older people spent years travelling to work themselves, and this is just one generation's appreciation of another - and it is an economic stimulus which is also helping to keep those working in Cities in a job: what's called enlightened self-interest. We've seen how dead the city centre economies were when Covid struck, and older people coming back to Town in larger numbers if transport is free, is part of the fabric.

I'd say there's an expression that fits your complaint: you are in danger of "cutting off your nose to spite your face".

Arb.

The younger generation demonstrates its appreciation by paying for the pensions and healthcare of the older generation. They don’t need a free £3k handout on top.

[JohnB]

Ive spent the day swanning round museums in London, the difference is I had to spend £9 to do so. I paid for my leisure at 54, so should those under 67.

[AF62]

If its that good for the economy, why not offer free public transport to all? All this talk of forcing up fares for those forced to travel for work so others can swan around for museums and nice lunchees!

As explained above, it's not forcing up fares, it's paid for out of general taxation for the English National Concessionary Travel Scheme bus pass and council taxes for everything above that. I thank you for your contribution.

Actually a lot of the free journeys under the national scheme are not paid for at all, and realistically the TFL would have been following the same basis now they are charging.

Bus operators are compensated for journeys taken when the passenger would have paid to travel if there wasn’t a concessionary scheme but aren’t paid if they wouldn’t have done if the scheme didn’t exist - i.e. without the bus pass the OAP would have stayed at home or found another way to get to the shops.

Obviously since passengers are not asked when they get on the bus ‘would you have paid’ then there is a complicated mechanism to work out the reimbursement.

But for TFL, if they think revenue will go up then they will probably be surprised to find that the over 60s simply change their travel plans so they still don’t pay.

[UncleEbenezer]

On a somewhat-tangential note ...
Having reached the 60 milestone, I was very pleased to get my Old Fart's Railcard. But I've not considered travel in and around London.

This pass requires you to be resident in London, which excludes those of us who could never afford any such thing. If I wanted to travel around London (having used a regular train to get to one of its mainline stations), are there any free options for that?

[Spet0789]

On a somewhat-tangential note ...
Having reached the 60 milestone, I was very pleased to get my Old Fart's Railcard. But I've not considered travel in and around London.

This pass requires you to be resident in London, which excludes those of us who could never afford any such thing. If I wanted to travel around London (having used a regular train to get to one of its mainline stations), are there any free options for that?

Walk or cycle.

[chas49]

On a somewhat-tangential note ...
Having reached the 60 milestone, I was very pleased to get my Old Fart's Railcard. But I've not considered travel in and around London.

This pass requires you to be resident in London, which excludes those of us who could never afford any such thing. If I wanted to travel around London (having used a regular train to get to one of its mainline stations), are there any free options for that?

Not free,, but if you have/get a physical Oyster card, you can (by going to a TfL Underground station and asking a member of ticket staff to do it) get your Railcard linked to the Oyster card and then get the 30% discount on your Tube fares. You have to repeat the linking process every time you renew the Railcard, and you can't link it to a contactless payment card. But every little helps I suppose.....

[Bminusrob]

On a somewhat-tangential note ...
Having reached the 60 milestone, I was very pleased to get my Old Fart's Railcard. But I've not considered travel in and around London.

This pass requires you to be resident in London, which excludes those of us who could never afford any such thing. If I wanted to travel around London (having used a regular train to get to one of its mainline stations), are there any free options for that?

I have a railcard, so on the rare occasions that the trains are running, and I want to go to London, my railcard reduces the price by 33%. I nearly always buy a travelcard (ie train journey to London plus unlimited underground) because my railcard saves me 33% on the extra, which a travelcard costs, and that means I save money even if I only take two tube journeys.

Just as an aside, where I live, there is virtually no public transport. My nearest bus stop (three buses a day) is a mile away, and my nearest railway station is 20 miles away. Since I am helping subsidise the London Underground through my taxes - yes, even pensions are taxed - is there a good reason why I should not be entitled to free travel on the London Underground?