Thermal imaging technology and heat-retention around the home...

[Itsallaguess]

‎
I've been toying with the idea of buying a thermal-imaging camera for a few years now, with a view to using it around my home to help with heat-retention during the winter.

The location and construction of my house means that during the colder months, and especially on windier days, there's a definite sense that my gas-fired central heating seems to run fast just to stand still to some extent, with little sense that my home is ever really doing much to retain any warmth being generated.

The consumer thermal-imaging camera options have usually boiled down to standalone hand-held devices, or smaller thermal-imaging 'modules' that plug into mobile phones or laptops, with the plug-in modules generally being cheaper due to the fact that they can use the screen and processing capability built into the host-device.

Until recently, the mobile-enabled module segment of the market has been dominated by Flir, but the relatively low-resolution of their technology, along with the fact that they've insisted on using a module-embedded battery that is non-replaceable by design have been the two issues that have put me off any purchase up to now.

Recently though, Topdon have entered the module-market with a higher-resolution option which uses the host-device as the power-source -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TC001-Resolution-Sensitivity-20%E2%84%83-550%E2%84%83-Precision/dp/B0BFCVZC6R

The above seems to tick all the boxes necessary for me to now consider something like this to help with my energy-saving plans, and I'm seriously considering giving it a go over the coming winter.

Some Youtube videos demonstrating the above Topdon TC001 module, and it's versatility in assessing heat-loss and temperature-differentials around the home -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd4PrbsL6T8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFLtiDx65ek

Over on the separate 'Energy costs' thread, I've tended to document where I've been able to actually reduce my summer and winter energy-use, but as I've probably worked through most of the relatively low-hanging fruit on that side of things, and will hopefully benefit over the longer-term with those associated cost-savings, I'm now moving into a separate phase of looking to actively boost the heat-retention properties of my home, and making the best use of any warmth-generating energy being used, and with the primary issues for me likely to be related to cold air-gaps, draughts, and floor-and-wall insulation properties, then this type of modular thermal-imaging camera has the potential to play a large part in highlighting opportunities for improvements in all of those areas.

Has anyone used this type of technology themselves, for similar purposes?

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[UncleEbenezer]

Could you possibly be conflating two different things here?

A thermal image will highlight heat lost by radiation, that would be improved by better insulation. But when you refer to windy days, that would be heat lost by convection rather than radiation.

What am I missing?

[Itsallaguess]

Could you possibly be conflating two different things here?

A thermal image will highlight heat lost by radiation, that would be improved by better insulation. But when you refer to windy days, that would be heat lost by convection rather than radiation.

What am I missing?

That where unwanted colder convection is entering the home, those areas are likely to show as being relatively cooler on a thermal-imaging device, highlighting places where that cold-convection can be investigated and possibly prevented?

On the flip-side of that, and where underfloor-voids exist, then relatively warm-areas can be investigated where heat-loss from above is penetrating colder areas in that void space?

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[BullDog]

To answer the question, no I haven't done this, because of limited options and cost. Interesting to hear of progress on that. I have also exhausted the lowish hanging fruit options. The one thing I really should do next is top up the existing 150mm of loft insulation to 300mm. But the cost is about £1500 to do. And forecast energy saving is in the low to mid double figures annual saving. So it isn't happening anytime soon, which is a shame but is also reality.

[DrFfybes]

Our Parish Council has one of these available to borrow - I tried it last winter.

I got a 30 min course which covers very little, then got to play with it for a few days.

I'll be honest, it was a complete waste of time. Even once I'd gone online and read the proper instructions, set the background temp, etc, set the range or left it on 'auto', it showed nothing.

I used it in the cold snap, the outside temp was -4C or similar, but the entire house was pretty much the same colour, except for one orange patch where there was a rad under the window and I'd left the curtains open. Checking inside was similar - basically the wndows are colder than the walls unless you close the curtains.

Now to be fair, the inside of our house was barely 20C above the outside, but I would have expected something, some warm patches, particularly on the roof where there are poorly insulated patches. Mind you the snow doesn't melt on them either, so not much heat loss, perhaps as there isn't much heat inside.

So as a reference I used my infra red laser thermometer along the outside of the house. This showed a 2C rise in the external brickwork where the microbore was buried in the solid walls inside - not a lot but that its a lot of brickwork to heat up when it should have been going to the rads. Similarly it showed me that inside the house the external walls were colder than internal ones, but really nothing I didn't know or which wasn't obvious. Even armed with this info I couldnt really get the IR camera to make the warm patches obvious, despite setting it to quite a narrow temp range.

and with the primary issues for me likely to be related to cold air-gaps, draughts, and floor-and-wall insulation properties, then this type of modular thermal-imaging camera has the potential to play a large part in highlighting opportunities for improvements in all of those areas.

You're now at diminishing returns. Be aware there is a fine line between "draughts" and "ventilation", and the simplest ways to find a draught are a candle or a wet finger.

As for wall and floor insulation, ISTR 30mm of PIR insulation (celotex) is about the same U value as a leaf of bricks, and installing it is messy and intrusive and makes the room smaller. We were refurbing one room with the floor up and an arch removed, so too it back to bare brick and used insulated plasterboard which also allowed us to run 15mm pipe to feed the rad, but I suspect we'd never recoup the extra cost oer using normal plasterboard bonded to the old bricks. Cavity insulation is a different matter, but as we removed 5 x 40L trugs of debris from our cavities once we'd lifted the windowcills (bricks, rubble, front off a freezer drawer, fast food wrappers, etc) and were barely down to the damp course then the builder agreed shoxing something else in there was probably asking for trouble. As for the floor, thicker carpet and 3.5 Tog underlay (which we were replacing anyway) was a lot cheaper than removing 12 inches of base and replacing it with celotex and fresh concrete, and seems to make it a lot more comfy to sit on.

The only caveat is a suspended ground floor, this will have vent bricks under and will be a constant source of cold air blowing under the house. And that is what we have found, on cold days this house is OK, as was the last one, but on cold windy days the house gets very cold. We assume this is because the Wind Chill takes the heat from the building fabric quicker than still air.

So perhaps we just need to plant a hedge

Paul

[88V8]

Be aware there is a fine line between "draughts" and "ventilation", and the simplest ways to find a draught are a candle or a wet finger.......

... So perhaps we just need to plant a hedge

An unventilated house is an unhealthy house, and imho being shut up in a modern environment of artificial fibres and household chemicals is one of the factors that contributes to the current epidemic of allergies.

Funny you should mention hedges because one of the (unintended) improvements we made to our previous house was to clothe the back in ivy. Cooler in summer warmer in winter not least because it helps to keep the wall dry and nothing wicks away heat like being damp. and that's before one starts on the environmental benefits.

No need to take my word for it

Here it was before it spread right across



I say 'unintended' as the ivy was only supposed to grow 8 ft high, but it had other ideas.

The front and east side benefited from a coating of hydrangea petiolaris

[DrFfybes]

If you could submit your Ivy to the UKTC and get a U-value for it, would that improve your EPC rating?

Paul

[funduffer]

You're now at diminishing returns. Be aware there is a fine line between "draughts" and "ventilation", and the simplest ways to find a draught are a candle or a wet finger.

As for wall and floor insulation, ISTR 30mm of PIR insulation (celotex) is about the same U value as a leaf of bricks, and installing it is messy and intrusive and makes the room smaller. We were refurbing one room with the floor up and an arch removed, so too it back to bare brick and used insulated plasterboard which also allowed us to run 15mm pipe to feed the rad, but I suspect we'd never recoup the extra cost oer using normal plasterboard bonded to the old bricks. Cavity insulation is a different matter, but as we removed 5 x 40L trugs of debris from our cavities once we'd lifted the windowcills (bricks, rubble, front off a freezer drawer, fast food wrappers, etc) and were barely down to the damp course then the builder agreed shoxing something else in there was probably asking for trouble. As for the floor, thicker carpet and 3.5 Tog underlay (which we were replacing anyway) was a lot cheaper than removing 12 inches of base and replacing it with celotex and fresh concrete, and seems to make it a lot more comfy to sit on.

The only caveat is a suspended ground floor, this will have vent bricks under and will be a constant source of cold air blowing under the house. And that is what we have found, on cold days this house is OK, as was the last one, but on cold windy days the house gets very cold. We assume this is because the Wind Chill takes the heat from the building fabric quicker than still air.

So perhaps we just need to plant a hedge

Paul

My bungalow has suspended floors, and it was obvious that the floors were cold in winter. I could measure a temperature difference between floor level and head height in a well insulated, heated room. I could feel it in my feet as well!

We had under-floor insulation installed. I expected it to be very disruptive, but we went for 200mm of mineral wool suspended in nets attached to the floor joists. Mind you, you need at least 0.5m of head room, otherwise it is impossible to install. Horrible, mucky job even then, so I was very impressed with the guys who did it. It involved making two 0.5m square holes in the floor boards to gain access, but these were neatly cut and secured afterwards. They provided photos to show they had covered the whole floor area. Surprisingly cheap as well - about £20 per sqm. Has made a big difference, which I can tell when I pad about the house in bare feet!

FD

[DrFfybes]

My bungalow has suspended floors, and it was obvious that the floors were cold in winter. I could measure a temperature difference between floor level and head height in a well insulated, heated room. I could feel it in my feet as well!

I think you'll find the hot air rises in all rooms

We had under-floor insulation installed. I expected it to be very disruptive, but we went for 200mm of mineral wool suspended in nets attached to the floor joists. Mind you, you need at least 0.5m of head room, otherwise it is impossible to install. Horrible, mucky job even then, so I was very impressed with the guys who did it. It involved making two 0.5m square holes in the floor boards to gain access, but these were neatly cut and secured afterwards. They provided photos to show they had covered the whole floor area. Surprisingly cheap as well - about £20 per sqm. Has made a big difference, which I can tell when I pad about the house in bare feet!

FD

A good price and sounds a neat job.

We had a floor levelled as there was a step. The infilled half got 100mm celotex in it, the other half just screeded up. This was a 1950s extension, so there would be no insulation.
Nice thick underlay (3.5 tog) and mid price carpet and I can't tell the difference between one side or the other. Neither can my digital thermometer..

Paul

[Tedx]

I see Lidl are doing an infrared thermometer for seventeen quid

https://www.lidl.co.uk/p/parkside-infra ... Sales_Week

[GrahamPlatt]

I see Lidl are doing an infrared thermometer for seventeen quid

https://www.lidl.co.uk/p/parkside-infra ... Sales_Week

I was about to say the same. Got one.

[Tedx]

Lettuce know how you get on with it.