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On not saving

Making your money go further
PinkDalek
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Re: On not saving

#68116

Postby PinkDalek » July 18th, 2017, 1:09 pm

didds wrote:
PinkDalek wrote:
What's this about a £3.00 coffee? [<<<< incomplete quote, I wrote more to answer my rhetorical question ;) ]


TBH, I never buy coffee out unless we are out for the day away from home etc etc etc. I know people who pop out of their home to a coffee place and buy coffee to take home. I don't honestly get that but each to their own.


So the £3 was a bit of a guess to be fair, based on a guess for the the bucket sizes I see people walking around with.

So I am probably wrong with how much coffee costs :)

didds


It wasn't your guess and, no, it doesn't appear to be too far out given the link I provided earlier (which you appear to have missed):

https://www.londontoolkit.com/briefing/ ... shops.html

Sunnypad
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Re: On not saving

#68154

Postby Sunnypad » July 18th, 2017, 3:22 pm

Didds, I was thinking the coffee shop crowd weren't interested in alcohol and that's why they're in a coffee shop.

but ...now I have looked at that link, coffee is actually cheaper than I thought it was!

Re food - they wouldn't consider a ham sarnie an acceptable lunch. Don't get me started on the posh food. Again - no objection at all to anyone spending their money on what they choose - it's just posh food is such a thing now. I think I said in my OP, at least my friends have stopped asking me to go to ££££ places - I used to get a lot of "oh just this once" but even if you save it for everyone's birthday, (which I do) that's a lot of posh food to pay for.

I have been updating my LinkedIn profile today and thinking....if my post is made redundant, I think this might be the last permanent full time job I take. I might go part time. That is a very cheery thought :D

Sunnypad
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Re: On not saving

#68156

Postby Sunnypad » July 18th, 2017, 3:26 pm

PS I will confess to being very relieved about a birthday clash where I had to go to Kent

the London person went to a restaurant where you could pay about £30 for a pigeon - free on my balcony ha ha - and I'm vegetarian and the option I would have had would be about the same price for what looked like a collection of vegetables hand reared by monks and braised in a butter "emulsion". I mean, seriously....?!

AleisterCrowley
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Re: On not saving

#68164

Postby AleisterCrowley » July 18th, 2017, 4:07 pm

I normally avoid eating out because;
(a) I'm a tightwad
(b) I don't really enjoy it - I find it a bit of a chore

Luckily the expensive Starbucks etc is not for me either, as I'm caffeine sensitive and I'm not paying £3 for a mug of decaff!

Lootman
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Re: On not saving

#68166

Postby Lootman » July 18th, 2017, 4:15 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:For what it's worth, I left London - not through choice - in the 1980s. Couldn't afford to live there as a young graduate in a supposedly-good job. That's when it became clear to me that income was largely irrelevant: the difference between rich and poor was property ownership vs rent.

That's exactly the thing. Historically it has made far more sense to borrow to get onto the property ladder than actually try and save. I remember buying my first London home in 1980 and, like you, thought I couldn't afford it. Indeed, I couldn't, but I was lucky enough to work in the City and could get a 3% mortgage through work, and my father gave me the deposit. Four years later I bought my second place without needing help from either of those sources. It's getting started that is the hard part.

A work colleague of mine bought about the same time, also in Muswell Hill, only he has kept that house. He and his wife make easily 200K a year but they never save a penny; never have and never will. Not even a pension.

I asked him once what he was going to do for retirement income. He pointed to his house and said "You're looking at it". And he is probably right - it's worth north of a million, mortgage-free (he was at least prudent about that part). There is no way he could have saved that amount. And any such savings would have been taxed more than one's primary residence.

So the only question is whether the rules are different now than then.

Sunnypad
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Re: On not saving

#68171

Postby Sunnypad » July 18th, 2017, 4:26 pm

Lootman "So the only question is whether the rules are different now than then."

The friends I'm thinking of range from 30-50. In the upper ages, they might have made money on property - but that is not guaranteed anyway. I think my property has nearly doubled but it might crash again when I need the money so I don't consider it real money unless it's been cashed in, so to speak.

In the lower ages, they will have bought prices were sky high and so is the mortgage. Which to me, would be even more reason to save for rainy day, job loss, illness etc.

Aleister - I see it as a chore too, I'm glad it's not just me. In my case it mostly happens because we meet after work and people work centrally but live further out. But when it's suggested as a weekend plan, I would always prefer to eat at home first and then meet for drinks in a place where you can just relax and not have a waiter hovering.

vrdiver
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Re: On not saving

#68176

Postby vrdiver » July 18th, 2017, 4:39 pm

Lootman wrote:I asked him once what he was going to do for retirement income. He pointed to his house and said "You're looking at it".

So the only question is whether the rules are different now than then.


I have a friend who went that route. problem was, when it came time for him to retire, the house was just as she wanted it, her friends lived close by and she wasn't impressed with the choices available after he'd worked out how much cash he wanted to spend on the replacement house. It was also difficult to sell (houses not selling quite so easily at the time of retirement) and they got less than he had anticipated.

When I asked what he was going to do with the equity from the house, he explained he'd been talking to a very nice chap at the bank...

Like a lamb to the slaughter, but previous financial conversations with friends have taught me to tread very warily when it comes to hints and tips, let alone suggesting any plan.

Satsuma
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Re: On not saving

#68268

Postby Satsuma » July 19th, 2017, 8:07 am

didds wrote:One of my locals sells L+S for 60p. Other pubs in town charge £2. So possibly why would anybody drink L+S for £2 when you can get a coffee for not much more, or even a pint (driving aside)?

didds


I am reading a book about a long distance walker at present. He is keeping a running tally of the cost of lime and soda at his refreshment stops. At one place in Oxfordshire they wanted to charge him £3.25! He grumbled and they knocked off the lime charge, which meant they were charging £2.60 for the soda. He walked out without his drink :D

UncleEbenezer
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Re: On not saving

#68273

Postby UncleEbenezer » July 19th, 2017, 8:38 am

Satsuma wrote:I am reading a book about a long distance walker at present. He is keeping a running tally of the cost of lime and soda at his refreshment stops. At one place in Oxfordshire they wanted to charge him £3.25! He grumbled and they knocked off the lime charge, which meant they were charging £2.60 for the soda. He walked out without his drink :D

Heh. Evidently time for the government to introduce "help to drink", and subsidise his £3.25. Then the vendor can add an extra 50p and still be more affordable. Likewise the vendor's suppliers, and everyone benefits.

Meanwhile, tap water always offers good value.

redsturgeon
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Re: On not saving

#68274

Postby redsturgeon » July 19th, 2017, 8:42 am

Satsuma wrote:
didds wrote:One of my locals sells L+S for 60p. Other pubs in town charge £2. So possibly why would anybody drink L+S for £2 when you can get a coffee for not much more, or even a pint (driving aside)?

didds


I am reading a book about a long distance walker at present. He is keeping a running tally of the cost of lime and soda at his refreshment stops. At one place in Oxfordshire they wanted to charge him £3.25! He grumbled and they knocked off the lime charge, which meant they were charging £2.60 for the soda. He walked out without his drink :D


The other side of the coin on this issue from my daughter's point of view, she works three evenings a week in our local. It is a brilliant pub serving a large range of craft beers from the cask as well as the normal range of other drinks. It is also on a popular route for runners. One group regularly come in, about six of them, after their run and sit down and have a round of a variety of soft drinks. They never use the pub otherwise, they never come in at other times either for a drink or a meal. Their drinks need to be poured for them, the glasses need to be washed before and after use. The table and chairs they use often need to be wiped down from either the sweat or the dirt from running in the local water meadows. The pub needs lighting and heating. The staff need paying. They are using all the facilities, not just having a cheap drink of soda water.

On the other hand this same pub, throughout the hot weather has had a small fridge in the garden filled with small bottles of still water, free for the use of customers, tap water with ice and lemon is always available FoC. Also when a runner who was running many back to back marathons used this a a stop over and was provided every service he required at no charge.

This cafe owner in York says it better than I could though.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... eview.html

John

didds
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Re: On not saving

#68276

Postby didds » July 19th, 2017, 8:54 am

Yup - get all of that John.


My point about the cost of L+S wasn;t to castigate those that charge what appears to be high prices for L+S, but to provide a reason why people choose a £2.60 coffee over a £2 L+S.

Meanwhile, moving the debate along, my local that sells L+S has all of these overheads too. Whilst having the cheapest beer in town except for Weatherspoons.

didds

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Re: On not saving

#68281

Postby redsturgeon » July 19th, 2017, 9:09 am

didds wrote:Yup - get all of that John.


My point about the cost of L+S wasn;t to castigate those that charge what appears to be high prices for L+S, but to provide a reason why people choose a £2.60 coffee over a £2 L+S.

Meanwhile, moving the debate along, my local that sells L+S has all of these overheads too. Whilst having the cheapest beer in town except for Weatherspoons.

didds


Hi Didds,

I was not particularly responding to your point but it was more a response to that walker, walking out with having a drink in Oxfordshire.

Beer in most of the pubs that I want to drink in is horribly expensive in my locality! It is a cross I have to bear!

John

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Re: On not saving

#68372

Postby Sunnypad » July 19th, 2017, 2:18 pm

I genuinely think some pubs under charge me for my lime and soda when they recognise my heavy drinking friends :lol:

Some now just let me have it for free with one particular friend.

Yes, I know it says something about me that I have heavy drinking friends....! But I can confirm they drink a lot when I'm not there too!!!

Satsuma
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Re: On not saving

#68374

Postby Satsuma » July 19th, 2017, 2:19 pm

I didn't realise I needed to provide full disclosure and plot details to pass on a mildly interesting anecdote....

Walker is walking, with water and food on his walks. Fear not.

He occasionally stops off to let his feet cool down and admire the view and might fancy a drink that isn't water. Sometimes he has booked a room overnight and more often than not he will have a snack or meal there too. Sometimes he even arranges to meet people at various locations! I know, crazy, huh?!

He has been in pubs which charged him 60p for L+S, and this one which charged him £3.25. He mentions those as a sort of informal ongoing "plot point" in his walking story. It's not an in depth philosophical review of the state of the nation.

Lets not forget that pubs are in the business of selling people drinks and the margins on soft drinks are huge too.

swill453
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Re: On not saving

#68670

Postby swill453 » July 20th, 2017, 6:46 pm

I'm in France at the moment, and due to the lack of duty on alcohol the "raw material" for bar drinks is so cheap that I'd imagine it makes little difference whether you buy a soft drink or alcohol. Yet for a (say) 25cl beer that costs less than 50c in a supermarket, people are happy to pay a minimum of €2.30, and up to €4.40 in a touristy area.

Not really sure what that proves, other than that other cultures wouldn't care about the markup on a drink if they wanted to have it in the ambiance of a bar.

Scott.

UncleEbenezer
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Re: On not saving

#68831

Postby UncleEbenezer » July 21st, 2017, 2:18 pm

Sunnypad wrote:Ebenezer - was this before you could get contributions based JSA?

Whoops! Only just saw that question.

No. Several reasons why that wouldn't work.

First, those savings ran out in 2002, but I had last made enough money to pay contributions some years earlier.

Second, since I had my business and its income for the previous year was just over the level of JSA (though far short of either rent or housing benefit), I wasn't eligible. Hence the 270% "effective" tax rate: the benefits I lost were 270% of my total income.

Third, and probably most important, they deemed that anyone trying to run a business was not available for work. My assurance that I could start a proper paying job the day after being offered it wasn't good enough: I couldn't be doing anything productive. Pursuing this line a little further, I found the same would apply if I admitted to voluntary work for any kind of charity.

Having said that, it eventually paid off. ADSL arrived in 2004, which was my transitional year: still in poverty by SJW standards, but felt rich. I could then spend real time online, and the well-paid work started to appear, so since 2005 I've been much better-off. Though I should add: I've met others in similar straits since then.

Sunnypad wrote:Didds, I was thinking the coffee shop crowd weren't interested in alcohol and that's why they're in a coffee shop.

There's a time for coffee and a time for booze. They are, to a first order approximation, morning and evening respectively.

Lootman wrote:That's exactly the thing. Historically it has made far more sense to borrow to get onto the property ladder than actually try and save. I remember buying my first London home in 1980 and, like you, thought I couldn't afford it

Agreed. Back then much more so than now - when we do at least have a somewhat-functioning rental market.

My first immediate boss was just a couple of years older than me, and had bought his run-down one-bed flat in 1981. He was pretty clear he couldn't have afforded it a couple of years later. Neither could I, and with prices rising at 20%/year I could see no prospect. Nothing to do with the mortgage repayments (which would certainly have been cheaper than rent in those days), but I couldn't get the mortgage in the first place. Once I fled London I could have been eligible for a mortgage, but was instead held back by the instability of short-term jobs and the need to move around where I could get work.

Stonge
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Re: On not saving

#82836

Postby Stonge » September 22nd, 2017, 8:51 pm

I have a limit of ten pence per person on Christmas presents. Might have to reduce it because of Brexit.
More people should buy duct tape - it can save a lot of money. I repaired my car with it. Good as new, nearly.


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