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Tracking Expenses

Making your money go further
JMN2
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Re: Tracking Expenses

#104705

Postby JMN2 » December 17th, 2017, 12:54 pm

Itsallaguess wrote:
JMN2 wrote:
I am not recording extraordinary, one-off, items but want to see the regular outgoings by month by category, which are

council tax
electricity
gas
water
internet
tv licence
contents insurance
building insurance
boiler service
car insurance
car tax
car MOT and service

so no transport, food, beer, petrol


Is there a reason you choose not to track the cost of these last four categories?

I'd perhaps argue that most of them are more expensive over the course of 12 months, and more important also, than something like a boiler-service, which you do track but which I'd class as much less discretionary than the four you don't track, so I'm interested in why you'd choose not to, given that you then lose visibility of the cost of these important ongoing costs.

For the record, of those four, I regularly record and track food (in the form of the receipts from the big weekly shops) and petrol, but lump 'other transport' (of which there is really very little for me) and 'beer' (which I don't spend too much on anyway, to be honest) into my 'general cash withdrawal' category, but I think keeping track of my food (main shopping) and petrol is an important part of my tracking process.

Not a criticism really, and more a question to understand why you choose to not track these items, that's all.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess


I guess mainly because the ones I follow are new to me after a break from house ownership as opposed to food and beer which I've been buying for decades. Petrol I buy every 2 months and now realise I should add that to the list. I also feel recording a bus ticket cost or 2 beers in a pub is a bit too tedious and I want to focus mainly on what my house costs to me.

Itsallaguess
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Re: Tracking Expenses

#104709

Postby Itsallaguess » December 17th, 2017, 1:17 pm

JMN2 wrote:
I guess mainly because the ones I follow are new to me after a break from house ownership as opposed to food and beer which I've been buying for decades.

Petrol I buy every 2 months and now realise I should add that to the list.

I also feel recording a bus ticket cost or 2 beers in a pub is a bit too tedious and I want to focus mainly on what my house costs to me.


I completely agree regarding the bus ticket and 2 beers, which is why I also lump that category of low-level spending in with my 'general cash withdrawal' category.

There's definitely a macro-level of spending which I'm not at all interested in tracking, so long as those low-level bits are still caught in a more general category, and bus-tickets and the odd beer are getting to the level where it's pocket-money stuff, but certainly for food and petrol, they are a large enough capital cost over a year that I want to be able to see them in my overall spending plans, to help with any future planning I want to do off the back of it.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

AF62
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Re: Tracking Expenses

#104963

Postby AF62 » December 18th, 2017, 4:50 pm

I have used Microsoft Money since 1995, when they gave it away free for a short period to celebrate the launch of Windows 95. I went on from the free version to buy the various paid versions until they killed it off, but still carry on with the 'end of life' version.

Initially it was a bit of pain as you had to key in transactions, but fortunately I banked with First Direct who were one of the first to launch an internet service where you could download transactions (around 1997 IIIRC). Some companies were slower with the update than others and I recall writing some macros for Excel to convert data from screen grabs of data from my Amex account to QIF.

Unfortunately with the demise of Money and Quicken some banks now seem to be removing the ability to download data or only offering CSV files, so I may have to dust off those macros again.

Once I could see where the money was going it dramatically changed my viewpoint on spending and money in general. Not necessarily spending less, just making sure I was spending it in the right way (for me).

Do I track everything; no. I have a 'cash' account which just has the occasional ATM transfer in and a monthly deduction to give me what I feel I have left in my wallet, but with contactless payments these days I tend to only spend cash once every few weeks.

To be honest I struggle to understand how anyone can survive without keeping some check on their financial situation, but accept most people don't. Something like Money makes it so easy. Log in once a week to the various banks and companies I have accounts with, hit the download button, and the information is automatically sucked into Money. 30 minutes a week at most to give me a good overview.

vrdiver
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Re: Tracking Expenses

#105012

Postby vrdiver » December 18th, 2017, 7:31 pm

AF62 wrote:Log in once a week to the various banks and companies I have accounts with, hit the download button, and the information is automatically sucked into Money. 30 minutes a week at most to give me a good overview.


I collect receipts (even for contactless - where there's no receipt option I make a note on my phone) and just enter them into Excel. Certainly no more than 30 minutes a week, probably more like 10.

Like you, cash is less and less in use. E.g. a trip to the pub, where I know what was in my wallet when I left the house, and when I get home, therefore difference = pub spends, that sort of thing.

Initially, I thought there ought to be a cutoff on tracking, with small amounts just going into a cash "pocket money" category, but decided to track everything so as to understand how the little stuff adds up. Now it's second nature to just record spending as it happens (receipt or note) and I like the fact that I can reconcile cash flow with expenditure without having a catchall bucket.

The time-eater is the analysis: not sorting into different buckets of expenditure (that's all automated) but looking at where the money went and figuring out if that was what I actually wanted to spend it on!

Chrysalis
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Re: Tracking Expenses

#105027

Postby Chrysalis » December 18th, 2017, 9:00 pm

Apart from Money mentioned above (which doesn’t appear to exist anymore), does anyone know a good money management programme which will automatically upload my bank statements (first direct)? I haven’t managed to get YNAB to do that successfully, so I input every transaction, which is a pain.

Watis
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Re: Tracking Expenses

#105108

Postby Watis » December 19th, 2017, 10:57 am

Jabd2001 wrote:Apart from Money mentioned above (which doesn’t appear to exist anymore), does anyone know a good money management programme which will automatically upload my bank statements (first direct)? I haven’t managed to get YNAB to do that successfully, so I input every transaction, which is a pain.


Jabd2001 - did you see the links that Itsallaguess posted further up the thread?

Itsallaguess wrote:

Better than that, I've now found that the Money 2005 UK edition can also still be downloaded from the Money MVPS website -

http://moneymvps.org/

http://moneymvps.org/downloads/files/20 ... K-QFE2.exe



I've used Money for many years now and think it is one of the best products Microsoft have ever produced. Hence not wanting you to miss out if it might be suitable for you, too.

Watis

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Re: Tracking Expenses

#105145

Postby Chrysalis » December 19th, 2017, 2:50 pm

Duh, thanks!

MyNameIsUrl
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Re: Tracking Expenses

#105153

Postby MyNameIsUrl » December 19th, 2017, 3:46 pm

The auto-download of transactions from Nationwide BS into Money was turned off some years ago, but I still download transactions (rather than key them in) to be sure the data matches. Transactions can be downloaded from the Online Banking screens between selected dates into ofx format, then a free utility called MT2OFX converts it to QIF format for import into Money. This takes a minute or two even for a year's data, although I do it a couple of times a month.

Money categorises all my transactions where I have used the seller before (eg all the local petrol stations are automatically categorised 'petrol') subject to my clicking approval.

Once a year I open a report in Money showing all transactions (around 20000) and then export all to Excel where a pivot table shows me values and trends over about 15 years.

AF62
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Re: Tracking Expenses

#105179

Postby AF62 » December 19th, 2017, 6:28 pm

vrdiver wrote:I collect receipts (even for contactless - where there's no receipt option I make a note on my phone) and just enter them into Excel.


These days I don't bother with receipts unless it is for guarantee purposes. I know where I spent money and I know roughly want I spent, so if the bank says I spent £x that is fine for me.

I do use separate accounts for 'big' spending and receipts - wages, electricity, gas, etc, so a minimal number of transactions, and then a separate 'high volume' account which deals with all the day to day low value transactions.

Retail spend is dealt with through gift cards as I can buy them at a discount, so again a monthly lump sum for each supermarket.

vrdiver wrote:Like you, cash is less and less in use. E.g. a trip to the pub, where I know what was in my wallet when I left the house, and when I get home, therefore difference = pub spends, that sort of thing.


I don't even use cash in the pub these days, and certainly in London most people are the same and just use contactless.

MyNameIsUrl wrote:The auto-download of transactions from Nationwide BS into Money was turned off some years ago, but I still download transactions (rather than key them in) to be sure the data matches. Transactions can be downloaded from the Online Banking screens between selected dates into ofx format, then a free utility called MT2OFX converts it to QIF format for import into Money.


I don't understand, Money (or at least the version I use) will quite happily import ofx format files directly.

MyNameIsUrl
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Re: Tracking Expenses

#105181

Postby MyNameIsUrl » December 19th, 2017, 6:40 pm

AF62 wrote:
MyNameIsUrl wrote:The auto-download of transactions from Nationwide BS into Money was turned off some years ago, but I still download transactions (rather than key them in) to be sure the data matches. Transactions can be downloaded from the Online Banking screens between selected dates into ofx format, then a free utility called MT2OFX converts it to QIF format for import into Money.


I don't understand, Money (or at least the version I use) will quite happily import ofx format files directly.


My version is Money 2004 (version 12.0) and gives an error message when I attempt to import an ofx file: 'The file you attempted to import is invalid...'
What version do you have?

AF62
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Re: Tracking Expenses

#105233

Postby AF62 » December 19th, 2017, 10:36 pm

MyNameIsUrl wrote:
My version is Money 2004 (version 12.0) and gives an error message when I attempt to import an ofx file: 'The file you attempted to import is invalid...'
What version do you have?


Money 2005 (UK) - Version 14.0.120.1105 which I believe is the version linked to further up the thread.

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Re: Tracking Expenses

#105362

Postby ten0rman » December 20th, 2017, 1:14 pm

It's nice to know that I'm not the only person who tracks or records most expenditure and income.

I started doing this in April 1993 having bought John Campbells MasterfilePC some two years previously. I upgraded to Masterfile Professional (Mpro) in Feb 1999 and have continued using it ever since. These are DOS programs which worked very well under DOS (as you might expect), Windows (various versions up to & including XP), and now Linux.

Over the last few years, I've started entering data from pre-1993 from old bankbooks/statements and now have data going back to 1961. Some of that data is fairly easy to work out what it was for, eg large sums meant a capital expense, but smaller sums, unless I can remember something and what its price was, are just entries with nothing against them. Which is a pity because it's now, for me, an interesting historical database.

I find it very useful for determining when we went somewhere, when we bought something, when we made investments, how much income we had, how much we paid for various utilities, and so on. And having entered it into the database, I can also get rid of some of the accumulated paper, eg statements & bankbooks going back to the early 1960's.

When I look back, some of it does seem somewhat silly, after all, does it really matter that I spent 60p on a paper back in the 80's?

Mpro has the facility to allocate various codes for each entry, but to be honest, I'm not that sure how useful it is, as the program does have a very good search facility so it is relatively easy to find something.

Regards,

ten0rman

JessUK98
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Re: Tracking Expenses

#105530

Postby JessUK98 » December 21st, 2017, 11:47 am

I use MS Money 2001 for tracking my expenditure. It's interesting to know how much I spend on things like alcohol or diesel etc in a year.
It also tracks my savings and pension, well for the latter just what I put into my pension, I can't figure out how to use it properly to get an accurate pension total (what tax rebate I get on my contributions, and how much the unit cost is etc).
I'm starting share buying next year, so will probably have to look at using something else to track that (it'll just company shares for now though).

I use Excel for my "SOA" though, so basically all my bills and how much they cost every month. Then if any go up or down, or I have a new DD, I add or amend it. I subtract the monthly amount from my monthly wage and have a surplus column. So handy to play around with.

I've recently started using the iOS version of excel on my iPad to track how many units of electricity I'm using per day as well. I've just installed new electric panel radiators and started running dehumidifiers all day so I'm keeping tabs on how much it costs per day.

Dod101
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Re: Tracking Expenses

#105548

Postby Dod101 » December 21st, 2017, 1:27 pm

My initial query has drawn out some interesting stuff. What on earth does tenOrman want with trying to resurrect expenditure from the 1960s? Must have more space than me!

I really just want to know where my money went this year and that in itself has proved to be very interesting and will probably cause me to modify some of my spending. It is also useful to see when my insurance is due and my utilities. They are the areas where I want to take an axe and cut down my costs.

Food costs are surprisingly stable, within about £10 each month. I must be a creature of habit.

Dod

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Re: Tracking Expenses

#105596

Postby JMN2 » December 21st, 2017, 6:43 pm

Dod101 wrote:...What on earth does tenOrman want with trying to resurrect expenditure from the 1960s? ...

Dod


"interesting historical database".

I remember my history very badly. Some people talk how in 1982 April they went to here and there and this and that happened, or in 1964 June they bought their first IT and sold it at £200 profit in 1974 early summer. I couldn't do anything close to that.

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Re: Tracking Expenses

#105621

Postby ten0rman » December 21st, 2017, 9:25 pm

Dod101,

Originally, it was just to get rid of some paperwork since computer storage is much less than physical space. For what it's worth, that database package, or rather the financial file takes about 3Mb of storage (the program was noted for its economy in storage and was originally written for the Sinclair Spectrum with its 48K of RAM), that's 3Mb out of something like 650Gb of storage.

There is, of course, a penalty in that it takes time to transcribe the documents, but often, entries can be duplicated and just the date changed. And, being in my mid-70's, I'm also interested in model engineering except that during winter the garage/workshop becomes almost too cold to use, what else can I do? Sit & watch Jeremy Kyle all day? It's the same with genealogical research - strictly a winter project.

But there's something else. It enables me to look back and ponder on how little, by today's standards, we could manage on. It's rather unfortunate that back then I didn't pay attention to keeping certain records such as P60's because they do form an interesting historical document. I know this concept of history is rather strange, but it's something that as I get older, I consider more and more. To give a totally unrelated example, my first ever trip to the Scottish Highlands from West Yorkshire took place in July 1962. Since then I've been to the Highlands scores of times and now have memories of how the roads have changed over the last half-century. Is that history, or is it not? It's the same with my financial records.

In respect of today's expenses, we really don't have a problem. That's not to say we can go overboard, but generally we don't need to count the pennies. Having said that, it's taken a long time to get to that position, probably of the order of 40 years of married life before we became "safe". That's 40 years of 2nd hand cars, camping & then caravanning in the UK, making stuff last, ie not buying the latest must-have gadget, or the latest & most up to date item.

Regards,

ten0rman

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Re: Tracking Expenses

#105624

Postby ten0rman » December 21st, 2017, 9:34 pm

Just another thought.

Thinking about it, the real turning point for us came in the 1980's when Nationwide brought out it's Flexaccount which I still use today. That event spurred me on to getting rid of the credit card debt, an account with National Giro (as it was) called Flexiplan, wich was a sort of rolling loan account, and working out how much I needed to put by each month to break even over the year. It helped that I had recently gained promotion, but over a short period I got on top of everything. Ok, things were still tight, but I managed to avoid serious debt from that moment on, other than the mortgage and some loans. And I can remember the first car that we bought for cash - a s/h Montego in 1992. But the point is, that from that event in the '80's we managed to get on top, and stay on top of our expenses.

ten0rman

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Re: Tracking Expenses

#106978

Postby modellingman » December 31st, 2017, 1:33 pm

Dod101 wrote:I this year have tracked on an Excel spreadsheet just about every item of expenditure broken down in more detail than I need. I will though use that as a basis for refining the info for next year. Already some interesting stuff coming out and for the first time I know for instance how much I am spending on petrol and food and whisky!

I regard how I finance that as a separate exercise but I use my State pension to finance all travel otherwise I do not touch it although I think it will become the source of cash gifts to grandchildern and other charities.

Dod


If your estate is in danger of falling within the scope of IHT, then one side-benefit of tracking income and expenditure (which you won't live to see) is for completing page 6 of this document.

Dod101
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Re: Tracking Expenses

#106989

Postby Dod101 » December 31st, 2017, 2:11 pm

Thanks! Just what I need to cheer me up today! I am afraid that I was not thinking about my heirs though and yes my estate will fall well within the IHT band, like most on this site I would imagine.

Dod

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Re: Tracking Expenses

#107013

Postby neversay » December 31st, 2017, 3:08 pm

FWIW, I use https://www.moneyhub.com/home which is a simple but fast account aggregator accessible via mobile and the web. It's £10 a year but makes tracking/classification simple and alerts help me keep an eye on family spending with basic charting, queries and analysis. All transactions can be downloaded via CSV. It doesn't track stock prices directly and some will have an issue with sharing encrypted bank tokens (via yodlee) but for me it's outweighed by the convenience and added security of being able to quickly spot any erroneous transactions. No connection other than being a happy user.


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