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HSBC Interim Results

For discussion of the practicalities of setting up and operating income-portfolios which follow the HYP Group Guidelines. READ Guidelines before posting
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IanTHughes
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Re: HSBC Interim Results

#157656

Postby IanTHughes » August 7th, 2018, 11:21 am

Wizard wrote:Don't most people look for an HYP selection to have a history of a growing dividend. This is not for the sake of the historical fact itself, but rather as an indicator of a likelihood of future dividend growth. As HSBC has explicitly stated the dividend will not increase for the foreseeable future I would not have thought HSBA qualifies as an HYP pick for new money (new share or top up). Only really a share for discussion by those with existing holdings from now on IMHO.

I cannot speak for “most people”, nor indeed anyone else but me, but in my opinion HYP as a Strategy is not so automated as you suggest above. Yes, the Strategy offers various criteria (Recent History of Rising Dividend, Low Indebtedness, Large Market Capitalisation ..etc..) for assisting in the selection of a candidate but, to my mind at least, the only two absolutes are the avoidance of over-concentration in any one Holding / Business Sector / Industry, and that the share be high yield at the time of purchase.

In my case I will normally take the highest yield available that cannot be rejected by reference to either, the projected portfolio weighting of the Holding / Business Sector / Industry, or one of those HYP criteria. But how much weighting I may put on those criteria and therefore whether I reject any particular high yield or not, will vary, maybe markedly, from other HYPers faced with the same dilemma.

With specific reference to HSBC Group Holdings (HSBA) I first purchased this share for my HYP in April 2012. At the time the dividend had grown in the previous two years, I believe, but there had been a fairly recent Dividend Cut (2008 / 2009) and some would have said that a HYPer should wait until a rising trend was better established (5 years). Others however, would not even have waited as long as I did.

All I can say is that for me, it offered the highest yield not rejected as noted above and I believed that, even though the rising dividend trend was very recent and even tentative, it was a risk worth taking for the medium and long term income prospects. Since my original purchase, the dividend did increase in real terms for a couple more years but since then it has been held and all subsequent increases / reductions have been the result of currency fluctuations.

Would I top-up HSBA now?

No. But that is because at present there are higher dividend yields available, not because HSBA is being rejected per se. If I were faced with that decision, whether to reject HSBA or Top-Up, I would not reject HSBA at present.

Would I select HSBA for a one-shot HYP being purchased right now?

Yes. Assuming, the risk of over-weighting and other HYP Criteria would reject sufficient of the highest current yields available such that HSBA would be under consideration, I would not reject HSBA at present.

I would think the same as I did six years ago - a risk worth taking for the medium and long term income prospects.


Ian

Itsallaguess
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Re: HSBC Interim Results

#157657

Postby Itsallaguess » August 7th, 2018, 11:27 am

Gengulphus wrote:
But for the HYPer who is willing to take a deeper look at the company's prospects of future dividend growth, I don't think a dividend hold should rule a share out of consideration for purchasing.


I've gone further than that in the past, and have actively selected a company for my HYP based on the fact that they have actually shown willingness to hold a dividend in the past, if they've explained the reasoning behind the decision to do so, and the decision seems reasonable.

The desire to grow dividend-cover has been an example of such reasoning in a number of cases, and having chased enough very-high-yield shares in the past, where the willingness of the people running the company to actually protect the ability for the company to continue paying out such dividends has been lacking, I've come to the conclusion that seeing a dividend-history such as the TATE example you've shown (https://www.dividenddata.co.uk/dividend ... ?epic=tate) can actually be used as one of the best 'good-management' indicators that we might be able to call on over the longer term..

Nowadays, I'll willingly take a long-term history of dividend-payouts like this TATE example over any number of very-high-yield cutters that I've got the scars from....

Obviously we can't know what the future holds for such companies, but where I see a willingness to manage things internally in this way, it highlights a positive sign to me that they're at least keeping their eye on the ball....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

MDW1954
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Re: HSBC Interim Results

#157664

Postby MDW1954 » August 7th, 2018, 11:54 am

IanTHughes wrote:Would I select HSBA for a one-shot HYP being purchased right now?

Yes. Assuming, the risk of over-weighting and other HYP Criteria would reject sufficient of the highest current yields available such that HSBA would be under consideration, I would not reject HSBA at present.

I would think the same as I did six years ago - a risk worth taking for the medium and long term income prospects.


Ian


Well put. I agree 100%.

MDW1954

tjh290633
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Re: HSBC Interim Results

#157699

Postby tjh290633 » August 7th, 2018, 2:11 pm

MDW1954 wrote:
IanTHughes wrote:Would I select HSBA for a one-shot HYP being purchased right now?

Yes. Assuming, the risk of over-weighting and other HYP Criteria would reject sufficient of the highest current yields available such that HSBA would be under consideration, I would not reject HSBA at present.

I would think the same as I did six years ago - a risk worth taking for the medium and long term income prospects.


Ian


Well put. I agree 100%.

MDW1954

In that situation I would think differently. For a one-time HYP, bought in one fell swoop, my inclination would be to choose Lloyd's in preference to HSBA. Only if there were to be deliberate duplication of sectors would I pick them.

That begs the question, would I duplicate every sector? In the case of banking, I think that I might not. The financial sector contains a diverse collection of shares, besides the banks. Life assurance, fund management, brokers, etc. I think that I would diversify within the sector.

TJH

MDW1954
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Re: HSBC Interim Results

#157708

Postby MDW1954 » August 7th, 2018, 2:38 pm

tjh290633 wrote:
MDW1954 wrote:
IanTHughes wrote:Would I select HSBA for a one-shot HYP being purchased right now?

Yes. Assuming, the risk of over-weighting and other HYP Criteria would reject sufficient of the highest current yields available such that HSBA would be under consideration, I would not reject HSBA at present.

I would think the same as I did six years ago - a risk worth taking for the medium and long term income prospects.


Ian


Well put. I agree 100%.

MDW1954

In that situation I would think differently. For a one-time HYP, bought in one fell swoop, my inclination would be to choose Lloyd's in preference to HSBA. Only if there were to be deliberate duplication of sectors would I pick them.

That begs the question, would I duplicate every sector? In the case of banking, I think that I might not. The financial sector contains a diverse collection of shares, besides the banks. Life assurance, fund management, brokers, etc. I think that I would diversify within the sector.

TJH


Terry,

HSBA is currently on a higher (historic) yield than LLOY, so I am being consistent with HYP principles in expressing a preference for HSBA. Haven't looked at the forecast yield.

More to the point, though, I would choose HSBA over LLOY due to the latter's over-reliance on the UK economy. Last time I looked, just 4% of HSBC's business came from the UK, and just 8% from Europe (including the UK). So HSBA, I reckon, is the more broadly diversified business of the two.

MDW1954

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Re: HSBC Interim Results

#157714

Postby Dod101 » August 7th, 2018, 2:58 pm

MDW1954 wrote:HSBA is currently on a higher (historic) yield than LLOY, so I am being consistent with HYP principles in expressing a preference for HSBA. Haven't looked at the forecast yield.

More to the point, though, I would choose HSBA over LLOY due to the latter's over-reliance on the UK economy. Last time I looked, just 4% of HSBC's business came from the UK, and just 8% from Europe (including the UK). So HSBA, I reckon, is the more broadly diversified business of the two. MDW1954


If I were starting with a clean sheet I would certainly look at both banks and would probably buy some of each, but my preference would be for HSBC because as I have said and as MDW says, Lloyds is very reliant on one market only. The fact that HSBC has a slightly higher yield is not to me a positive factor for it because of the likelihood that it will not be increasing its dividend for the next year or two. Often by buying a slightly lower yield but with a decent increase in the dividend each year, you will end up better off dividendwise.

True disciples of course would ignore that argument and simply go for the higher yield.

Dod

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Re: HSBC Interim Results

#157739

Postby melonfool » August 7th, 2018, 4:47 pm

Moderator Message:
Please, please stop referring to people with words like 'true disciples', it honestly does not help with cohesion on this board. If your suggestion/opinion/argument/whatever does not 'fit' with HYP principles to the extent that you feel you need to say that, or that you need to comment on whether your post will be moderated - don't post it! Mel


Moderator Message:
Folks, this is a good example of how doubtless well-intentioned comment is open to being misconstrued. I'm sure Dod meant nothing pejorative by referring to "true disciples", but the phraseology perhaps wasn't ideal. Let's all think a little harder before posting. If in doubt, as Mel says, don't hit the "post" button! -- MDW1954


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