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Interserve open offer

Practical discussions about equity High-Yield Portfolios (HYP) for income
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Tight HYP discussions only please - OT please discuss in strategies
jackdaww
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Re: Interserve open offer

#207956

Postby jackdaww » March 15th, 2019, 4:53 pm

Arborbridge wrote:I wish I could remember who it was introduced me to Interserve on here (well, on the Fool). I'd never even heard of it until then.

Jackdaww lost out heavily by getting out 10 years ago, :lol: for it was my number one share for TR until recently. A little bit of charting would have gone a long way in that case.

Arb.


===================================

i put the money into greggs at £4 - they havnt done too badly.

and still with us .....

:D

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Re: Interserve open offer

#207964

Postby IanTHughes » March 15th, 2019, 5:22 pm

jackdaww wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:I wish I could remember who it was introduced me to Interserve on here (well, on the Fool). I'd never even heard of it until then.

Jackdaww lost out heavily by getting out 10 years ago, :lol: for it was my number one share for TR until recently. A little bit of charting would have gone a long way in that case.


===================================

i put the money into greggs at £4 - they havnt done too badly.

and still with us ..... :D

And the rest of your HYP holdings? How have they done? In fact, do you have an HYP? If you do not know what an HYP is can I suggest that you check out the guidelines for this board. they are meant for those who are ignorant of the strategy.


Ian

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Re: Interserve open offer

#207971

Postby Arborbridge » March 15th, 2019, 5:41 pm

jackdaww wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:I wish I could remember who it was introduced me to Interserve on here (well, on the Fool). I'd never even heard of it until then.

Jackdaww lost out heavily by getting out 10 years ago, :lol: for it was my number one share for TR until recently. A little bit of charting would have gone a long way in that case.

Arb.


===================================

i put the money into greggs at £4 - they havnt done too badly.

and still with us .....

:D


Oh dear, you played it all wrong then. You should have held on the IRV until 2014 then swapped into Greggs. :lol:

Seriously, though you did well with that move and I wish I had done the same. Credit where it's due - or perhaps, all praise the goddess of serendipity !

Arb.

jackdaww
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Re: Interserve open offer

#207973

Postby jackdaww » March 15th, 2019, 5:50 pm

IanTHughes wrote:
jackdaww wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:I wish I could remember who it was introduced me to Interserve on here (well, on the Fool). I'd never even heard of it until then.

Jackdaww lost out heavily by getting out 10 years ago, :lol: for it was my number one share for TR until recently. A little bit of charting would have gone a long way in that case.


===================================

i put the money into greggs at £4 - they havnt done too badly.

and still with us ..... :D


And the rest of your HYP holdings? How have they done? In fact, do you have an HYP? If you do not know what an HYP is can I suggest that you check out the guidelines for this board. they are meant for those who are ignorant of the strategy.


Ian


since you ask ....

i hold -- 3i astra aviva bhp bae bats close easyjet glaxo imps itv l&g phnx rio rmg sdrc rdsb sla vodafone.

excepting perhaps vod , i am well pleased with their performance.

8-)

Arborbridge
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Re: Interserve open offer

#207976

Postby Arborbridge » March 15th, 2019, 5:55 pm

jackdaww wrote:since you ask ....

i hold -- 3i astra aviva bhp bae bats close easyjet glaxo imps itv l&g phnx rio rmg sdrc rdsb sla vodafone.

excepting perhaps vod , i am well pleased with their performance.

8-)


I love the nouvelle cuisine table layout. Glad you don't do it too often though :)

Do astra still make those square aerials?

IanTHughes
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Re: Interserve open offer

#207979

Postby IanTHughes » March 15th, 2019, 6:00 pm

jackdaww wrote:since you ask ....

i hold -- 3i astra aviva bhp bae bats close easyjet glaxo imps itv l&g phnx rio rmg sdrc rdsb sla vodafone.

excepting perhaps vod , i am well pleased with their performance.

So, can you now explain what you meant by:
jackdaww wrote:i think its gone --- the way of several other popular HYP picks. :( :(

Several? How many? Can you count them on more than one chopstick?


Ian

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Re: Interserve open offer

#207981

Postby Arborbridge » March 15th, 2019, 6:11 pm

IanTHughes wrote:
jackdaww wrote:since you ask ....

i hold -- 3i astra aviva bhp bae bats close easyjet glaxo imps itv l&g phnx rio rmg sdrc rdsb sla vodafone.

excepting perhaps vod , i am well pleased with their performance.

So, can you now explain what you meant by:
jackdaww wrote:i think its gone --- the way of several other popular HYP picks. :( :(

Several? How many? Can you count them on more than one chopstick?


Ian


It's friday night - we should be out enjoying ourselves :(

jackdaww
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Re: Interserve open offer

#207982

Postby jackdaww » March 15th, 2019, 6:15 pm

Arborbridge wrote:
jackdaww wrote:since you ask ....

i hold -- 3i astra aviva bhp bae bats close easyjet glaxo imps itv l&g phnx rio rmg sdrc rdsb sla vodafone.

excepting perhaps vod , i am well pleased with their performance.

8-)


I love the nouvelle cuisine table layout. Glad you don't do it too often though :)

Do astra still make those square aerials?


================

sorry its a bit rushed , i'm running out of time - amongst other things - but the info is there - not in order of recommendation .

ps. wasnt squareial a motorbike ?

;)

Dod101
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Re: Interserve open offer

#207984

Postby Dod101 » March 15th, 2019, 6:17 pm

IanTHughes wrote:
jackdaww wrote:i think its gone --- the way of several other popular HYP picks. :( :(

My HYP is going from strength to strength. You must be doing it wrong


The stockmarket has a habit of biting those who get too arrogant or complacent. I wish you well.

Dod

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Re: Interserve open offer

#207985

Postby Bouleversee » March 15th, 2019, 6:20 pm

Back to the subject: A poster on the ADVFN discussion board said the following re the IRV collapse:

"A few posters here don’t seem to have understood that USA hedge funds owned a massive amount of shares they also shorted this company so voted against to win on the shorts it was a no win situation for shareholders."

I have to confess that I rarely check out the shorting situation re my too numerous holdings but if this is correct I should clearly pay more attention to this aspect. It is appalling that such activity could hasten the demise of a company and maybe the petition I saw mentioned the other day to ban shorting of AIM shares should be extended to the wider market. I wonder how much attention the institutions pay to this. Another reason for getting out of individual shares perhaps but perhaps not into Coltrane. I must look them up. I think they were described as an asset manager but they won't be getting mine.

Arborbridge
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Re: Interserve open offer

#207986

Postby Arborbridge » March 15th, 2019, 6:28 pm

Bouleversee wrote:Back to the subject: A poster on the ADVFN discussion board said the following re the IRV collapse:

"A few posters here don’t seem to have understood that USA hedge funds owned a massive amount of shares they also shorted this company so voted against to win on the shorts it was a no win situation for shareholders."

I have to confess that I rarely check out the shorting situation re my too numerous holdings but if this is correct I should clearly pay more attention to this aspect. It is appalling that such activity could hasten the demise of a company and maybe the petition I saw mentioned the other day to ban shorting of AIM shares should be extended to the wider market. I wonder how much attention the institutions pay to this. Another reason for getting out of individual shares perhaps but perhaps not into Coltrane. I must look them up. I think they were described as an asset manager but they won't be getting mine.


I don't like the idea of being able to short a company, but I doubt that doing so would bring one down - the directors seem to manage that quite well! The question with shorting is: at what level should one worry to the extent of selling out? In normal times, shareholders lend out their shares to shorters in a sort of on-going game to make money for both sides. It's only when a company is already in serious trouble that shorting become's critical - so a few percent or even 15% may just be part of the game, before management sorts the mess out. You may as well look at the share chart and decide on your tolerance on the falling share price.

Arb.

IanTHughes
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Re: Interserve open offer

#207987

Postby IanTHughes » March 15th, 2019, 6:28 pm

Dod101 wrote:
IanTHughes wrote:
jackdaww wrote:i think its gone --- the way of several other popular HYP picks. :( :(

My HYP is going from strength to strength. You must be doing it wrong


The stockmarket has a habit of biting those who get too arrogant or complacent. I wish you well.

Well, I would not suggest that jackdaw is arrogant or complacent, not an HYPer that is sure, but she seems to know what she is doing


Ian
Last edited by IanTHughes on March 15th, 2019, 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dod101
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Re: Interserve open offer

#207989

Postby Dod101 » March 15th, 2019, 6:40 pm

Bouleversee wrote:Back to the subject: A poster on the ADVFN discussion board said the following re the IRV collapse:

"A few posters here don’t seem to have understood that USA hedge funds owned a massive amount of shares they also shorted this company so voted against to win on the shorts it was a no win situation for shareholders."

I have to confess that I rarely check out the shorting situation re my too numerous holdings but if this is correct I should clearly pay more attention to this aspect. It is appalling that such activity could hasten the demise of a company and maybe the petition I saw mentioned the other day to ban shorting of AIM shares should be extended to the wider market. I wonder how much attention the institutions pay to this. Another reason for getting out of individual shares perhaps but perhaps not into Coltrane. I must look them up. I think they were described as an asset manager but they won't be getting mine.


I do not have time right now to expand on the subject of shorting but the IC today has an interesting article on it. Its main thrust is that shorting is not the problem but is a result or a consequence of underlying problems with the shorted company (more often than not) As for interserve, shareholders were going to lose out very substantially whether the vote had gone through or not.

Dod

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Re: Interserve open offer

#207990

Postby Bouleversee » March 15th, 2019, 7:00 pm

How do you know Jackdaww is a she?

The good news is that the 287.33% gain (which doesn't include the dividends) on my Greggs shares, which I still hold, covers the total loss on my IRV shares and the 357.07% gain (again excluding divs.) on my WH Smith shares, also still held, much more than covers the total loss on my CLLN shares. The bad news is that the losses are in my ISAs and the gains and divs. are not. I also have a decent gain on ISA and non-ISA holdings in Dairy Crest coming up via a takeover (I may cash in earlier as the sp is at a premium to the offer) which will far more than cover the loss created when I bed and isa-d my Halfords shares which have started to buck up at last.

Much as I love my Greggs and WHS shares, I ought to either sell at least some of them or transfer to an ISA and am chewing this over.

I will make no further comment in case it sparks off another uncalled for argument.

monabri
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Re: Interserve open offer

#207991

Postby monabri » March 15th, 2019, 7:04 pm

Bouleversee wrote:Back to the subject: A poster on the ADVFN discussion board said the following re the IRV collapse:

"A few posters here don’t seem to have understood that USA hedge funds owned a massive amount of shares they also shorted this company so voted against to win on the shorts it was a no win situation for shareholders."

I have to confess that I rarely check out the shorting situation re my too numerous holdings but if this is correct I should clearly pay more attention to this aspect. It is appalling that such activity could hasten the demise of a company and maybe the petition I saw mentioned the other day to ban shorting of AIM shares should be extended to the wider market. I wonder how much attention the institutions pay to this. Another reason for getting out of individual shares perhaps but perhaps not into Coltrane. I must look them up. I think they were described as an asset manager but they won't be getting mine.


With regard to shorting of IRV, the significant shorting effectively ended at the end of last year (Dec 20th based on the graph presented in short tracker). After that date, the shorting levels fell to 0.58% by the start of this month. See the graph here:-

https://shorttracker.co.uk/company/GB0001528156/

Looking at the list of shorters ( same link as above) , I don't see Coltrane's name.

What really did IRV in....their poor programme management - taking on projects they didn't understand ( EFW), perhaps simply to boost revenue numbers. Generally, low margin work allows no wriggle room when even a single project goes wrong.

I didn't think it would come to administration tbh - but one thing that I know rang alarm bells ( and I allowed to slide) was their inability ( unknowing or more likely unwilling) to state the cost to completion on energy for waste.

Who do I blame? ...the bloke who bought the shares and then ignored the warnings... :(

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Re: Interserve open offer

#207994

Postby Wizard » March 15th, 2019, 7:11 pm

IanTHughes wrote:
jackdaww wrote:i think its gone --- the way of several other popular HYP picks. :( :(

My HYP is going from strength to strength. You must be doing it wrong


Ian

A rather insensitive comment given the topic of the thread and today's news :roll:

Never held IRV, but did lose out on Carillion, sympathy to those that lost out.

IanTHughes
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Re: Interserve open offer

#207997

Postby IanTHughes » March 15th, 2019, 7:22 pm

Wizard wrote:
IanTHughes wrote:
jackdaww wrote:i think its gone --- the way of several other popular HYP picks. :( :(

My HYP is going from strength to strength. You must be doing it wrong

A rather insensitive comment given the topic of the thread and today's news :roll:
Never held IRV, but did lose out on Carillion, sympathy to those that lost out.

Insensitive? Why? I too lost out on Carillion PLC (CLLN) but as I said, despite CLLN:
My HYP is going from strength to strength. You must be doing it wrong

jackdaww is triumphing his foresight in avoiding all pitfalls, which even I must concede is truly remarkable and to be applauded. So who is being insensitive here?

Ian

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Re: Interserve open offer

#207999

Postby monabri » March 15th, 2019, 7:27 pm

Bouleversee wrote:How do you know Jackdaww is a she?

The good news is that the 287.33% gain (which doesn't include the dividends) on my Greggs shares, which I still hold, covers the total loss on my IRV shares and the 357.07% gain (again excluding divs.) on my WH Smith shares, also still held, much more than covers the total loss on my CLLN shares. The bad news is that the losses are in my ISAs and the gains and divs. are not. I also have a decent gain on ISA and non-ISA holdings in Dairy Crest coming up via a takeover (I may cash in earlier as the sp is at a premium to the offer) which will far more than cover the loss created when I bed and isa-d my Halfords shares which have started to buck up at last.

Much as I love my Greggs and WHS shares, I ought to either sell at least some of them or transfer to an ISA and am chewing this over.

I will make no further comment in case it sparks off another uncalled for argument.


Well, chew on the Gregg's and not the WHS... :lol:

jackdaww
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Re: Interserve open offer

#208017

Postby jackdaww » March 15th, 2019, 8:50 pm

Bouleversee wrote:How do you know Jackdaww is a she?

The good news is that the 287.33% gain (which doesn't include the dividends) on my Greggs shares, which I still hold, covers the total loss on my IRV shares and the 357.07% gain (again excluding divs.) on my WH Smith shares, also still held, much more than covers the total loss on my CLLN shares. The bad news is that the losses are in my ISAs and the gains and divs. are not. I also have a decent gain on ISA and non-ISA holdings in Dairy Crest coming up via a takeover (I may cash in earlier as the sp is at a premium to the offer) which will far more than cover the loss created when I bed and isa-d my Halfords shares which have started to buck up at last.

Much as I love my Greggs and WHS shares, I ought to either sell at least some of them or transfer to an ISA and am chewing this over.

I will make no further comment in case it sparks off another uncalled for argument.


=========================

one thing i am learning , dont sell share in good companies - greggs is very good.

8-)
Moderator Message:
Folks, this is getting a little off-topic, and occasionally personal and insensitive. Let's get back to discussing IRV, not Greggs etc -- MDW1954

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Re: Interserve open offer

#208080

Postby Bouleversee » March 16th, 2019, 1:43 pm

Quite a lot of coverage in TT and FT this morning. I didn't appreciate the heading above Alex Ralph's article in TT: "Interserve saved after deal rejected". Everyone wonders why Coltrane voted against as they have now lost their investment which one says is £100 million and another £25million and both say might have been hedged against. One article says they would have retained one hundredth of their investment of £25m had the vote been in favour. Not sure how they work that out.

Alistair Osborne spells out Coltrane's proposal (which the board didn't think much of) which was to underwrite a £110m rights issue which, "allied with a debt-for-equity-caper, would have left the hedgie with up to 37.5%. Shareholders would have had a further 7.5% and the lenders 55%. The hedge fund also offered a bridging loan for the overdue £66m debt repayment that tipped Interserve over the edge." He also mentions a conspiracy theory that Coltrane had cooked up a deal with the banks and fellow hedgies taking control of IRV with a pre-pack but doesn't seem to think that very likely.
It will be interesting to see what, if anything, Coltrane does now. They had threatened to sue the directors and advisers but I shouldn't think that would be worth the candle.


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