Marks and Spencer Finals

[Dod101]

M&S represent about 2% of my HYP and my holding has not changed since 2007.

Wow 2007, that’s a long time. Just hope that you didn’t pay 7xx for them.....?. Which was their pre 2008 price by the look of it.

Ocado sounds like an innovative company and should be a useful addition to the company. But whether it’s worth the asking figure is another matter.

Well HYP is a LTBH strategy and although I am not a devotee of the classic HYP, I have several shares which I have held for upwards of 20 years, Unilever, HSBC, Legal & General, Shell, Imperial Brands, and in investment trusts, Caledonia, Alliance and Edinburgh IT. WIth all of them I am well in the money, some more than others.

I have not held M & S for about 20 years.
Dod

[PrefInvestor]

Well HYP is a LTBH strategy and although I am not a devotee of the classic HYP, I have several shares which I have held for upwards of 20 years, Unilever, HSBC, Legal & General, Shell, Imperial Brands, and in investment trusts, Caledonia, Alliance and Edinburgh IT. WIth all of them I am well in the money, some more than others.

I have not held M & S for about 20 years.
Dod

Yes some good names there, you must have done well. MKS has been in a downward spiral for a long time now IMHO, both in terms of the share price and the clothing aspects of the shops. Food part is a bright spot and Ocado should add to that, but the rights issue looks pricey to me. Not that I hold any....which I dont.

ATB

Pref

[Alaric]

MKS has been in a downward spiral for a long time now IMHO, both in terms of the share price and the clothing aspects of the shops.

Here's a graph of the share price from the 1980s onwards.

https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... hare+price

Some investors who bought and sold will have done well, others badly.

It was 142.24 December 1988, rising to 664.50 in October 1997. It then fell a long way back to 170 in October 2000. It then recovered to 736.3 in April 2007 before falling again to 204.25 in October 2008. Since then its highest has been 560 in June 2015. Currently at 246.3.

Being a dividend cutter, "HYP" investors may have filtered it out of consideration.

[PrefInvestor]

Some investors who bought and sold will have done well, others badly.

Hi Alaric,

Yes I took a look at the chart on yahoo actually, which goes back to about 1988. When I said it had been "in a downtrend for a long time" I was really referring to the period since Oct 2015 where it fell from ~560 to ~250 today. Admittedly with a very slight recovery in mid 2017 to about 365, but then down again pretty steadily to where they are today.

For you guys who hang on to your holdings for decades maybe that's not a long time, but for me it is !. I think the longest I've ever held anything is about 6-7 years.

They've paid out decent dividends over the years by the look of it (sort of 18-20p a year to start with, a bit less than that now).

As you say some holders will have done OK and some not, just depending on when they bought. Anyone who bought after 2015 will likely have made a loss in total return terms though......

ATB

Pref

[tjh290633]

I've held MKS since I inherited some from my mother, in 1970 at 272p. They subdivided several times making that original cost about 27p. Had I just kept the original shares, the IRR would have been 11.5% to date. As it is, with topping up and trimming back, my IRR is 9.6%. They have never got to the stage where I would contemplate getting rid of them, and I intend to take up my rights in full.

Maybe I am taking LTBH to the extreme, but that is the way it is.

TJH

[idpickering]

Maybe I am taking LTBH to the extreme, but that is the way it is.

TJH

In an ideal HYP World, that's how it should be Terry, but we're only human. Apparently Warren Buffet's preferred holding period is 'forever', although I think he does have a history of being a bit of a trader (tinkerer). Back to MKS though, I used to hold these years ago, but no more. In fact I have no retail holdings now.

Ian.

[MDW1954]

Apparently Warren Buffet's preferred holding period is 'forever', although I think he does have a history of being a bit of a trader (tinkerer).
Ian.

Actually, this is a common misconception. The full quote is this:

"When we own portions of outstanding businesses with outstanding managements, our favourite holding period is forever."

And that, I think you'll agree, is a rather different proposition. In those circumstances, we'd all hold forever.

MDW1954

[idpickering]

Apparently Warren Buffet's preferred holding period is 'forever', although I think he does have a history of being a bit of a trader (tinkerer).
Ian.

Actually, this is a common misconception. The full quote is this:

"When we own portions of outstanding businesses with outstanding managements, our favourite holding period is forever."

And that, I think you'll agree, is a rather different proposition. In those circumstances, we'd all hold forever.

MDW1954

Thank you for expanding on this MDW1954. That certainly clarifies the issue.

Ian.

[idpickering]

MKS ex div tomorrow, for a 7.1p div. They're on sale today, currently down 6% if anyone's interested?

Ian.

[IanTHughes]

They're on sale today, currently down 6% if anyone's interested?

I think you will find that this has something to do with the price drop today:

https://www.investegate.co.uk/marks---3 ... 00053641A/


Ian

[idpickering]

They're on sale today, currently down 6% if anyone's interested?

I think you will find that this has something to do with the price drop today:

https://www.investegate.co.uk/marks---3 ... 00053641A/


Ian

I missed that Ian, thank you.

Ian.

[IanTHughes]

They're on sale today, currently down 6% if anyone's interested?

I think you will find that this has something to do with the price drop today:

https://www.investegate.co.uk/marks---3 ... 00053641A/

I missed that Ian, thank you.

By my calculation, taking the closing price last night of 250.50, the ex-rights price should in theory be 239.58p. So at the current price - 233.60p - there would appear to have been a drop in excess of that from going ex-rights, but not much greater in percentage terms to the drop in the FTSE 100.


Ian

[Breelander]

The Nil-paid Rights are now listed on the London Stock Exchange with the ticker MKSN (and the fully paid as MKSF). No prices shown yet.

MKSN: https://www.londonstockexchange.com/exc ... ml?lang=en
MKSF: https://www.londonstockexchange.com/exc ... ml?lang=en


PS: for once, Barclays Smart Investor is on the ball. My MKSN rights are already shown in my account.

[Alaric]

No prices shown yet.

If you have an ii account, it's showing a price of 44.51 as of 3:45 pm 29th May.

[Breelander]

No prices shown yet.

If you have an ii account, it's showing a price of 44.51 as of 3:45 pm 29th May.

No. mine are in Barclays Smart Investor. Seems they have misplaced the decimal point

Sell price 4,450.50p
Buy price 4,470.00p
(Last price, 29/05/2019, 15:30)

[Bouleversee]

Nothing from IWeb since telling me there was going to be a rights issue of 1 for 5; par for the course. We always seem to be the last to hear anything.

[Breelander]

Nothing from IWeb since telling me there was going to be a rights issue of 1 for 5; par for the course. We always seem to be the last to hear anything.

Look again now that the market has closed. The nil-paid right were only admitted to the market today, iWeb may add them to your account at the close.

A new admission can have some odd effects on day one, such as the FT showing today's change as being the whole of the closing price

Price (GBX) 44.50 Today's Change 44.50 Shares traded 7.76m

https://markets.ft.com/data/equities/te ... s=MKSN:LSE

[Bouleversee]

I am not totally convinced that the Ocado tie up will prove to be a resounding success. It might do something for the food side of the business but the last time I was looking at their clothes, I thought the quality and styles had gone downhill and didn't buy anything and the same applied to household goods.

Your personal experience aside, you are right and thank you for reminding me. Marks & Spencer (MKS) is not simply a supermarket. This rights issue is undoubtedly aimed at increasing the earnings from food, but any purchase of MKS should be based on overall earnings, not simply food.

Ian

It's not even a supermarket really in that the food stores are just that and all the other things one now finds in supermarkets (even pharmacies, which is having an effect on Boots' profits) are in the large stores, very many miles away in my case so I very rarely frequent either as I want my weekly shop to be under one roof, reasonably close by, where I can pick up all the things I need in addition to food. I used to get their Dine in for Two sometimes but that no longer applies. I honestly don't know how Simply Food keeps going. If M&S are to compete with the supermarkets, I think they are going to have do major restructuring so that a much wider range of goods can be ordered on line or bought under one roof and I don't know whether there are any plans for that. Does anyone? You will have gathered I am still dithering/pickering about the rights. I am losing over 42% on the iWeb ISA holding which I bought in Jan. 2008.

[Bouleversee]

Nothing from IWeb since telling me there was going to be a rights issue of 1 for 5; par for the course. We always seem to be the last to hear anything.

Look again now that the market has closed. The nil-paid right were only admitted to the market today, iWeb may add them to your account at the close. A new admission can have some odd effects on day one, such as the FT showing today's change as being the whole of the closing price

Price (GBX) 44.50 Today's Change 44.50 Shares traded 7.76m

https://markets.ft.com/data/equities/te ... s=MKSN:LSE

I have and nothing has been added, either to the portfolio or to corporate events messages.

I have to confess that I still haven't registered with Shareview and entered my portfolio. Will they post me the details of entitlement of my certificated M&S holding in that case? I'll try and summon up the energy to start on it this evening. Can I put my whole certificated p/f on that, as I did with Digitallook which is pretty useless now?

[Breelander]

I have to confess that I still haven't registered with Shareview and entered my portfolio. Will they post me the details of entitlement of my certificated M&S holding in that case?

Yes, to the address the Registrar holds on record for you...

Can I put my whole certificated p/f on that, as I did with Digitallook which is pretty useless now?

It happens automatically. When you register with Equiniti Shareview you are asked to supply the name of one share you hold and the shareholder reference number from your certificate. Shareview will automatically find all other certificates registered with the name and address for which Equiniti is the Registrar.

To manage any share certificates for which Computershare is the Registrar (eg. Vodafone) you'll need to register with Computershare. Exactly the same applies, supply one shareholder reference number and all your other certificated holdings will appear.