The Tobaccos

[Arborbridge]

Arb

Point taken and maybe Mike has found the hint, but I expect the dividend will continue to increase at least. That is why forecasting is so difficult. As you would expect I can see no point in speculating, sorry I mean forecasting. I just assume the same for the next year and hope to be pleasantly surprised.

Dod

I hope you realised my comment was by way of a semantic tease

[Bouleversee]

Just to clarify my intentions, the top up of Imperial Brands and Vodafone will go ahead in my HYP tomorrow, irrespective that they may well be going ex dividend. Got to have a longer term focus, rather than trying to be too clever for my own boots.

Ian.

Am I right in thinking that you made a good call there and that the fall in share price when you bought was greater than the div. you would have rec'd if you had bought the day before; and the price has started to rise again today? If so, well done.

[idpickering]

Just to clarify my intentions, the top up of Imperial Brands and Vodafone will go ahead in my HYP tomorrow, irrespective that they may well be going ex dividend. Got to have a longer term focus, rather than trying to be too clever for my own boots.

Ian.

Am I right in thinking that you made a good call there and that the fall in share price when you bought was greater than the div. you would have rec'd if you had bought the day before; and the price has started to rise again today? If so, well done.

No skill on my part, just luck. Thank you

Ian.

[miner1000]

Interesting thread this. Lots of opinions that these companies are in decline, and yet many reasons put forward as to why although the share price is down 40%-60% people will be topping up one or both companies.

a producer of an addictive cancer inducing poison, worthy of buying more to pay dividends in 2035-45 (disclosure, I hold IMPS).

cf the Centrica thread. Producer of an essential utility, yielding about the same as BATS/IMPS. But general opinion is they are doomed to become another Carillion and disappear in the Corbyn rout.

Funny bunch these Hypers

[moorfield]

cf the Centrica thread. Producer of an essential utility, yielding about the same as BATS/IMPS. But general opinion is they are doomed to become another Carillion and disappear in the Corbyn rout.

BATS/IMPS dominate the sector they operate in, CNA doesn't - its woes stem mainly from competition and price caps in its retail (not production) business (ie. British Gas).

[Arborbridge]

Interesting thread this. Lots of opinions that these companies are in decline, and yet many reasons put forward as to why although the share price is down 40%-60% people will be topping up one or both companies.


Funny bunch these Hypers

And I can't help contrasting this once more with the opinion of William O'Neill (Founder of Investor's Business Daily) words to the effect that "doubling down" is the worst mistake of the amateur.

What HYPers do is most certainly against normal investment advice. (One should buy into rising shares, not falling ones.) The ultimate contrarians, perhaps, with the desire for yield making us less cautious than "standard" contrarians like Alistair Mundy. Altogether a risky strategy which depends for its ultimate strength on wishing never to sell. Only if one is prepared to write off capital (as one would with an annuity) does it make much sense. Then one can stop worrying about it and enjoy the income.

Arb.

[Bouleversee]

Only for as long as it lasts, Arb, the difference being that annuity goes on till you (and possibly) your spouse die. Mine has been running for over 20 years and was fixed at a very good rate. Different story now, of course. Having had my fingers burnt a few times, I won't be buying more when the price has dropped seriously in the future. It did pay off with Greggs, however.

[idpickering]

Interesting thread this. Lots of opinions that these companies are in decline, and yet many reasons put forward as to why although the share price is down 40%-60% people will be topping up one or both companies.


Funny bunch these Hypers

And I can't help contrasting this once more with the opinion of William O'Neill (Founder of Investor's Business Daily) words to the effect that "doubling down" is the worst mistake of the amateur.

What HYPers do is most certainly against normal investment advice. (One should buy into rising shares, not falling ones.) The ultimate contrarians, perhaps, with the desire for yield making us less cautious than "standard" contrarians like Alistair Mundy. Altogether a risky strategy which depends for its ultimate strength on wishing never to sell. Only if one is prepared to write off capital (as one would with an annuity) does it make much sense. Then one can stop worrying about it and enjoy the income.

Arb.

I don't mind being considered as part of a funny bunch. The current downward trend in the tobacco stocks (BATS and IMB) are a buying opportunity to me. I've mentioned this a few times, but I topped up my Shell holdings at their low in 2016, and they've done well for me. IMHO, buy that income whilst it's on offer.

Ian.

[pyad]

Only for as long as it lasts, Arb, the difference being that annuity goes on till you (and possibly) your spouse die. Mine has been running for over 20 years and was fixed at a very good rate. Different story now, of course. Having had my fingers burnt a few times, I won't be buying more when the price has dropped seriously in the future. It did pay off with Greggs, however.

Let me see if I understand you correctly.

You won't buy a share whose price has dropped seriously, for that reason alone. (Presumably for example the aforementioned tobaccos) Nothing else matters. Even if it has good fundies and now has a higher yield than before it dropped.

By implication you will buy a share whose price has risen seriously, assuming same as above, and even though it now has a lower yield than before it rose.

No offence but I think you may be on the wrong board.

Moderator Message:
HYPers, we are straying off-topic, and heading towards HYP Strategies. Back to the subject please. I won't move these last few posts, but feel free to continue the conversation over there... --MDW1954

[Quint]

Interesting thread this. Lots of opinions that these companies are in decline, and yet many reasons put forward as to why although the share price is down 40%-60% people will be topping up one or both companies.


Funny bunch these Hypers

And I can't help contrasting this once more with the opinion of William O'Neill (Founder of Investor's Business Daily) words to the effect that "doubling down" is the worst mistake of the amateur.

What HYPers do is most certainly against normal investment advice. (One should buy into rising shares, not falling ones.) The ultimate contrarians, perhaps, with the desire for yield making us less cautious than "standard" contrarians like Alistair Mundy. Altogether a risky strategy which depends for its ultimate strength on wishing never to sell. Only if one is prepared to write off capital (as one would with an annuity) does it make much sense. Then one can stop worrying about it and enjoy the income.

Arb.

I don't mind being considered as part of a funny bunch. The current downward trend in the tobacco stocks (BATS and IMB) are a buying opportunity to me. I've mentioned this a few times, but I topped up my Shell holdings at their low in 2016, and they've done well for me. IMHO, buy that income whilst it's on offer.

Ian.

Me too, i made major top ups of Shell and Rio Tinto in early 2016. I have recently added Imperial brands and BATS to the income portion of my SIPP which I will be drawing income from in four years time.

[idpickering]

Me too, i made major top ups of Shell and Rio Tinto in early 2016. I have recently added Imperial brands and BATS to the income portion of my SIPP which I will be drawing income from in four years time.

I did the same, both RDSB and RIO. To get back on topic though, I don't see an issue with taking advantage of the lowering of the share prices of the tobacco companies, by buying more of them to lock in the higher yield. One would hope we HYPers would be focussing on the income, so where the share goes after purchase is immaterial. I'm still topping up my BATS holdings on 22 Dec 18. I have a 'full' holding of Imperial Brands already.

Ian.

[88V8]

I topped up BATS a few days ago.
Their cover, as far as I can ascertain, isn't that good -about 1.5.
Still, that's a lot better than VOD and GSK which some people seem to think are HYPable.

Tobaccos now c5% of our HYP income.

Hope they find something to plug their menthol hole.

V8

[Arborbridge]

One would hope we HYPers would be focussing on the income, so where the share goes after purchase is immaterial.

Ian.

We do, we do! - but to the second part, well sort of to a point. If price tends to zero, so does income

Arb.

[idpickering]

One would hope we HYPers would be focussing on the income, so where the share goes after purchase is immaterial.

Ian.

We do, we do! - but to the second part, well sort of to a point. If price tends to zero, so does income

Arb.

Don't panic. Maybe I should've used the word 'secondary' rather than 'immaterial'?

Ian.