The Lemon Fool

Wizard wrote:

Bouleversee wrote:So what made you switch from BATS, Ian?

In the space of 2 hours 43 minutes...

...have we now entered the era of Speed Pickering?

It's the New Year me!. I do a line of t-shirts too. Seriously though Terry, I want to get away from second-guessing myself.

Ian.

OK, thanks Ian.

idpickering wrote:

Bouleversee wrote:So what made you switch from BATS, Ian?

Hi Bouleversee, nothing more complicated than me buying more IMB before their next ex divi date, that being 21 Feb 2019, qualifying for the 65.46p per share dividend. To be honest I'm likely to buy more BATS thereafter too.

Ian.

I think the question arose because only a couple of hours earlier you said...

idpickering wrote:Well put Dod. As for owning enough already, I'm 'full' regarding IMB, but not so with BATS. I guess a further top up, for a long term hold, wouldn't hurt. Maybe not this month's choice though?

My bold.

If you were full then how can you not be now. My guess is that unlike some on this board you do not have a fixed definition of "full", but would be interesting to know if that is right.

Terry.

Hello Terry, no problem. By full what I meant was that I have invested what I think is a maximum amount in ratio to my other 31 holdings. With regards this next dollop of cash into IMB, I decided to be a bit more flexible, and slightly exceed my normal investing limit in any given share.

Ian.

idpickering wrote:Hello Terry, no problem. By full what I meant was that I have invested what I think is a maximum amount in ratio to my other 31 holdings. With regards this next dollop of cash into IMB, I decided to be a bit more flexible, and slightly exceed my normal investing limit in any given share.

Ian.

OK, thanks Ian, pretty much what I thought. Hopefully they have bottomed out now.

Terry.

Philip Morris International isn't an orthodox HYP share, but it's a relevant contribution to this thread I think.

World's biggest tobacco company vows to phase out cigarettes

https://news.sky.com/story/worlds-bigge ... s-11602153

Can we expect to see similar moves from BATS and IMB I wonder.

moorfield wrote:Philip Morris International isn't an orthodox HYP share, but it's a relevant contribution to this thread I think.

World's biggest tobacco company vows to phase out cigarettes

https://news.sky.com/story/worlds-bigge ... s-11602153

Can we expect to see similar moves from BATS and IMB I wonder.

Very interesting, thank you moorfield. I mentioned further up this thread that I like to let managers manage. In that regard, I would hope that the bosses of IMB and BATS would follow Philip Morris's lead perhaps?

Ian.

idpickering wrote:Very interesting, thank you moorfield. I mentioned further up this thread that I like to let managers manage. In that regard, I would hope that the bosses of IMB and BATS would follow Philip Morris's lead perhaps? Ian.

PM's announcement of going Smoke Free was mentioned previously last year, certainly excellent PR! Relevant to BATS in this : -
- Glo is the BAT equivalent of IQOS and is going through the same evolution(s).
- BAT manufactures circa 680bn+ sticks of combustible cigarettes annually, so a fair amount of scope for cost cutting must exist.
- From reading the RNSs in December it does seem like many longer serving BAT Executives are being replaced.
- While the whole sector is in flux just perhaps some kitchen-sinking and expectation management is being undertaken by incoming management?

Desirable though it may be from a health point of view for tobacco to be phased out, I shall be very surprised if vaping takes its place and is anything like as profitable. When I decided it was time to give up smoking, I tried vaping and found it so unsatisfactory that it was easier just to give up altogether which I did very quickly and without any reversion.

Well, my order is in for tomorrow's Regular Investing Purchase at my broker A J Bell. British America Tobacco PLC (BATS) and its a fair chunk as I missed out on a purchase last month. A new holding for me although I do already have a fairly large holding of Imperial Brands PLC (IMB).

A smaller purchase of Marstons PLC (MARS), a top up, will complete this months' additions to my HYP


Ian

Bouleversee wrote:Desirable though it may be from a health point of view for tobacco to be phased out, I shall be very surprised if vaping takes its place and is anything like as profitable. When I decided it was time to give up smoking, I tried vaping and found it so unsatisfactory that it was easier just to give up altogether which I did very quickly and without any reversion.

The conclusion of your statement is that Tobacco BATS/IMB are no longer worth holding?

YeeWo wrote:

Bouleversee wrote:Desirable though it may be from a health point of view for tobacco to be phased out, I shall be very surprised if vaping takes its place and is anything like as profitable. When I decided it was time to give up smoking, I tried vaping and found it so unsatisfactory that it was easier just to give up altogether which I did very quickly and without any reversion.

The conclusion of your statement is that Tobacco BATS/IMB are no longer worth holding?

I wouldn't presume to predict on that. Other things they might do might become just as profitable. Aren't IMB doing cannabis or did I dream that? All I was saying is that I'd be surprised if vaping took the place of tobacco cigarettes. I hold both IMB and BATS and am not rushing to sell though if they should recover to anything like previous heights or what I paid I would probably do so and I don't feel inclined to rush in and buy more at this moment.
Others more savvy than me may hold different views, or be braver.

Bouleversee wrote:

YeeWo wrote:

Bouleversee wrote:Desirable though it may be from a health point of view for tobacco to be phased out, I shall be very surprised if vaping takes its place and is anything like as profitable. When I decided it was time to give up smoking, I tried vaping and found it so unsatisfactory that it was easier just to give up altogether which I did very quickly and without any reversion.

The conclusion of your statement is that Tobacco BATS/IMB are no longer worth holding?

I wouldn't presume to predict on that. Other things they might do might become just as profitable. Aren't IMB doing cannabis or did I dream that? All I was saying is that I'd be surprised if vaping took the place of tobacco cigarettes. I hold both IMB and BATS and am not rushing to sell though if they should recover to anything like previous heights or what I paid I would probably do so and I don't feel inclined to rush in and buy more at this moment.
Others more savvy than me may hold different views, or be braver.

I dunno about being brave, but my impending top up of my IMB holdings on 21 jan 19, is more a case of taking advantage of the share’s weakness, and buying more income because of it.

Ian.

idpickering wrote:

Bouleversee wrote:

YeeWo wrote:The conclusion of your statement is that Tobacco BATS/IMB are no longer worth holding?

I wouldn't presume to predict on that. Other things they might do might become just as profitable. Aren't IMB doing cannabis or did I dream that? All I was saying is that I'd be surprised if vaping took the place of tobacco cigarettes. I hold both IMB and BATS and am not rushing to sell though if they should recover to anything like previous heights or what I paid I would probably do so and I don't feel inclined to rush in and buy more at this moment.
Others more savvy than me may hold different views, or be braver.

I dunno about being brave, but my impending top up of my IMB holdings on 21 jan 19, is more a case of taking advantage of the share’s weakness, and buying more income because of it.

Ian.

A lot can change between now and Jan 21, Ian, including your mind. I can never understand your obsession with income when you are not yet drawing any and yields on all the shares you own now (and the ones you have spurned) will probably be totally different by the time you do. However, maybe that's me looking at things from the wrong perspective.

Bouleversee wrote:

A lot can change between now and Jan 21, Ian, including your mind. I can never understand your obsession with income when you are not yet drawing any and yields on all the shares you own now (and the ones you have spurned) will probably be totally different by the time you do. However, maybe that's me looking at things from the wrong perspective.

I do get where you're coming from Bouleversee, but for me right now, I reinvest my dividends on a monthly basis, and like to buy high yielding shares and get the money working for me ASAP, in order to enhance the compounding effect of my HYP pot. Things might change before my scheduled investing date 21 Jan 19. But one has to draw a line somewhere. It's IMB this month, and that's that.

Ian.

Bouleversee wrote:... I can never understand your obsession with income when you are not yet drawing any and yields on all the shares you own now (and the ones you have spurned) will probably be totally different by the time you do. However, maybe that's me looking at things from the wrong perspective.

HYPs are all about income and the same approach to selecting shares applies whether the investor has yet to draw that income and is reinvesting dividends or is at the stage of enjoying the income.

What's not to understand?

You seem not to agree with that, which is fine, each to their own, but if so you are on the wrong board I'd say.

I apologise. I should not have made that comment. And yes, I should stop looking at this board as, not being very bright, I don't really understand that philosophy during the building period. As you say, each to their own.

Bouleversee wrote:I apologise. I should not have made that comment. And yes, I should stop looking at this board as, not being very bright, I don't really understand that philosophy during the building period. As you say, each to their own.

=====

yes , were on the wrong board.

and the number of dedicated hypers is probably diminishing .

Bouleversee wrote:I apologise. I should not have made that comment. And yes, I should stop looking at this board as, not being very bright, I don't really understand that philosophy during the building period. As you say, each to their own.

You've no need to be quite so self-effacing there. At the heart of your comment was why is someone who isn't drawing dividends interested in deciding when to buy a share on the basis of when a dividend is due. It seems a fair enough question to me if you consider the context, and it certainly does not mean the board should not address the point.

There have been quite a few contributions over the years about timing in this respect. I used to be quite adamant that I would buy before the XD - indeed I still prefer to if I can - but many people point out that those who are using HYP to build there pots might actually perform better by buying immediately after XD because that can have the effect to building additional income in the future and in some circumstances save tax.

I'm not arguing whether that's correct or incorrect (personally, I think it's too close to call and it doesn;t bother me) but I think it is a legitimate subject for the board. Neither do I believe it would be right if you, Bouleversee, were chased away due to raising this (since many have done so before you) - even though you might now have found a different way of phrasing it

Arb.

pyad wrote:

Bouleversee wrote:... I can never understand your obsession with income when you are not yet drawing any and yields on all the shares you own now (and the ones you have spurned) will probably be totally different by the time you do. However, maybe that's me looking at things from the wrong perspective.

HYPs are all about income and the same approach to selecting shares applies whether the investor has yet to draw that income and is reinvesting dividends or is at the stage of enjoying the income.

What's not to understand?

You seem not to agree with that, which is fine, each to their own, but if so you are on the wrong board I'd say.

I disagree with pyad here. I think the point is that at the beginning of your buying and topping up the yield is important in decided on what to buy but as that maybe a long time away you look at the shares to make a decision on how you feel/expect/want them to go, in respect to yield. However, you may take a punt at a share that has a yield that meets the criteria but also you expect the capital to grow. Put simply the income yield is important but as it is not needed at the moment other aspects of the share may take a front seat. My opinion obviously and the way I started out.

Raptor.