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The Dividend Letter discontinued

Practical discussions about equity High-Yield Portfolios (HYP) for income
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Tight HYP discussions only please - OT please discuss in strategies
OhNoNotimAgain
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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196733

Postby OhNoNotimAgain » January 26th, 2019, 5:37 pm

This article helps to make the point about the power of dividends, doing nothing, compound interest and/or reinvesting.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/ ... cigarettes

Ideas that have been taken aboard by many former readers of pyad.

Lootman
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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196754

Postby Lootman » January 26th, 2019, 6:40 pm

OhNoNotimAgain wrote:This article helps to make the point about the power of dividends, doing nothing, compound interest and/or reinvesting.

That is certainly one interpretation, although even the article admits that those highest yielders have done badly in capital terms, such as BAT in the last year, and RBS since basically forever. (You might also remember that RBS was one of Pyad's "farm bets" on his ill-fated TMF value portfolio).

There is another way to interpret this data. The article contrasts the UK with US and Germany. One important difference is that UK yields are higher and dividend cover is lower. What you'd expect with such a distinction is that UK shares will exhibit lower growth because of the higher payout ratio. And of course the FTSE-100 has gone nowhere in the last 20 years, whilst the S&P 500 has more than doubled in that time (even before we factor in the stronger US dollar versus sterling).

So yes, compounding and reinvesting are helpful. But that applies as much to growth as it does to payouts. Nor does this article suggest that restricting oneself to large UK shares is the passport to prosperity relative to broader-based strategies.

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196799

Postby Arborbridge » January 27th, 2019, 8:03 am

Lootman wrote:There is another way to interpret this data. The article contrasts the UK with US and Germany. One important difference is that UK yields are higher and dividend cover is lower. What you'd expect with such a distinction is that UK shares will exhibit lower growth because of the higher payout ratio. And of course the FTSE-100 has gone nowhere in the last 20 years, whilst the S&P 500 has more than doubled in that time (even before we factor in the stronger US dollar versus sterling).

So yes, compounding and reinvesting are helpful. But that applies as much to growth as it does to payouts. Nor does this article suggest that restricting oneself to large UK shares is the passport to prosperity relative to broader-based strategies.


I'm not sure how you uncouple the two factors you mention, but in my view the lacklustre FTSE is principally due to the lacklustre economy in the UK - that's despite the tremendous advantages we have received strategically by being in the EU.

Arb.

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196800

Postby Dod101 » January 27th, 2019, 8:18 am

Arborbridge wrote:I'm not sure how you uncouple the two factors you mention, but in my view the lacklustre FTSE is principally due to the lacklustre economy in the UK - that's despite the tremendous advantages we have received strategically by being in the EU.


Or maybe because we have been shackled to the EU.

Dod

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196801

Postby Itsallaguess » January 27th, 2019, 8:31 am

Dod101 wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:
I'm not sure how you uncouple the two factors you mention, but in my view the lacklustre FTSE is principally due to the lacklustre economy in the UK - that's despite the tremendous advantages we have received strategically by being in the EU.


Or maybe because we have been shackled to the EU.


Can I quietly suggest that the above is an avenue of discussion probably best carried out over on Polite Discussions, if it's something that's worthy of a separate debate?

I personally wouldn't waste any further time heading down that particular avenue on HYP Practical, as such discussions are not likely to last too long on this particular board...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196804

Postby Dod101 » January 27th, 2019, 8:57 am

Agreed IAAG. It is not really a subject which I will contribute to anyway.

Dod

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#196807

Postby Arborbridge » January 27th, 2019, 9:22 am

Itsallaguess wrote:
Can I quietly suggest that the above is an avenue of discussion probably best carried out over on Polite Discussions, if it's something that's worthy of a separate debate?

I personally wouldn't waste any further time heading down that particular avenue on HYP Practical, as such discussions are not likely to last too long on this particular board...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess


Agreed.

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#198078

Postby miner1000 » February 1st, 2019, 1:47 am

All the best to PYAD.

HYP has been very good to me and I like pyad's writing style. May the HYP be with him going forward.

Miner

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#198090

Postby jackdaww » February 1st, 2019, 8:24 am

Dod101 wrote:Agreed IAAG. It is not really a subject which I will contribute to anyway.

Dod


===================

agreed also.

:)

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#198680

Postby ponym » February 4th, 2019, 12:04 am

Hello pyad,
One small SEP .....
Purely by coincidence I've chosen January 2019 as the start date to begin saving for my second HYP !
The first HYP is doing OK, thanks to you and your Rules.
This new Hyp will,like any pension, start off from a very small base.£100 per month for six months and then buy my first HYP share.I won't stop saving ever, even when I reach the final share purchase.
If I'm allowed I'm calling this HYP a Lemon SEP.( Lemon Self Engineered Pension). The Lemon part is obvious, I'm hoping all the doting Grandparents,parents and guardians who have talked themselves blue in the face,trying to get their young charges to save for their retirement will: either start a SEP for them or bring them here to learn all about Hyping and much much more.
Of course this will outlive me by many years , but by then the financial revolution you started will be well under way.
ponym.

pyad
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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#198725

Postby pyad » February 4th, 2019, 9:52 am

ponym wrote:Hello pyad,
One small SEP .....
Purely by coincidence I've chosen January 2019 as the start date to begin saving for my second HYP !
The first HYP is doing OK, thanks to you and your Rules.
This new Hyp will,like any pension, start off from a very small base.£100 per month for six months and then buy my first HYP share.I won't stop saving ever, even when I reach the final share purchase.
If I'm allowed I'm calling this HYP a Lemon SEP.( Lemon Self Engineered Pension). The Lemon part is obvious, I'm hoping all the doting Grandparents,parents and guardians who have talked themselves blue in the face,trying to get their young charges to save for their retirement will: either start a SEP for them or bring them here to learn all about Hyping and much much more.
Of course this will outlive me by many years , but by then the financial revolution you started will be well under way.
ponym.


Glad the HYP approach has worked for you.

As for this board and people learning about HYPing, I find it very flawed in places, for example by readers frequently mentioning capital growth and the constant agonising over tinkering. HYPs are about income, that's it. This is not a TR or a CG strategy. Any growth is of course welcome but it is not the purpose of the strat.

I've pointed out many times that certain readers such as tinkerers and CG seekers going on about the rise or fall in price hegemonise the board, not because of some conspiracy but simply because they have something to say, whilst the other 99% of HYPers who do nothing other than deal with mandatory corporate events, maybe don't even follow their ports, mostly have little comment to make. What are they gonna say?

Today I did dick with my HYP, I never even looked at it, why would I do so?

But newcomers see predominantly the former types and might easily be persuaded that that style is the way to go when it is not. It's a problem on a lot of online forums where a small and unrepresentative minority write most of the messages though I don't see what can be done about it.

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#198783

Postby Raptor » February 4th, 2019, 12:08 pm

pyad wrote:
Glad the HYP approach has worked for you.

As for this board and people learning about HYPing, I find it very flawed in places, for example by readers frequently mentioning capital growth and the constant agonising over tinkering. HYPs are about income, that's it. This is not a TR or a CG strategy. Any growth is of course welcome but it is not the purpose of the strat.

I've pointed out many times that certain readers such as tinkerers and CG seekers going on about the rise or fall in price hegemonise the board, not because of some conspiracy but simply because they have something to say, whilst the other 99% of HYPers who do nothing other than deal with mandatory corporate events, maybe don't even follow their ports, mostly have little comment to make. What are they gonna say?

Today I did dick with my HYP, I never even looked at it, why would I do so?

But newcomers see predominantly the former types and might easily be persuaded that that style is the way to go when it is not. It's a problem on a lot of online forums where a small and unrepresentative minority write most of the messages though I don't see what can be done about it.


Have you read the Board Guidance? Although it is envisaged that it is a LTBH approach, it is not a "rule" on HYP, so "tinkering" is ok. There is also nothing about "not" mentioning Capital, although HYP is an income strategy. It is the "context" of when "tinkering" becomes trading and buying is more about capital than income that the threads and posters are "reeled in" by the moderators.

This is not PYAD HYP Practical but Clariman & Stooz's HYP Practical. People have moved on (for good or bad!) and have defined their own ctirieria that they are happy with and I find that type of discussion very helpful. I hope "new" readers of HYP Practical also view these posts as of benefit and not as "flawed".

Raptor.

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#198807

Postby pyad » February 4th, 2019, 1:08 pm

What I'm saying is that the sort of HYP that a newcomer might see described here is the image projected by a small minority because they are the vociferous ones.

You may well have "moved on" from the original idea but have you moved up?
Last edited by pyad on February 4th, 2019, 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#198812

Postby moorfield » February 4th, 2019, 1:20 pm

Raptor wrote:This is not PYAD HYP Practical but Clariman & Stooz's HYP Practical.


There's the new name of this board then, right there. Problem solved. ;)

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#198816

Postby moorfield » February 4th, 2019, 1:24 pm

ponym wrote:The Lemon part is obvious, I'm hoping all the doting Grandparents,parents and guardians who have talked themselves blue in the face,trying to get their young charges to save for their retirement will: either start a SEP for them or bring them here to learn all about Hyping and much much more.


I'm hoping all the doting Grandparents,parents and guardians will not let their hard-earned be seduced by Hyping and keep things even simpler and more hands off for their young charges -> Investment Trust accumulation units, but we stray O/T.

pyad
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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#198818

Postby pyad » February 4th, 2019, 1:25 pm

moorfield wrote:
Raptor wrote:This is not PYAD HYP Practical but Clariman & Stooz's HYP Practical.


There's the new name of this board then, right there. Problem solved. ;)


Quite. Nothing against the site owners and I many others are grateful to them, but if this is C & S's HYP Practical, let's have their full and detailed method of HYP construction and maintenance then.

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#198832

Postby tjh290633 » February 4th, 2019, 2:10 pm

moorfield wrote:
ponym wrote:The Lemon part is obvious, I'm hoping all the doting Grandparents,parents and guardians who have talked themselves blue in the face,trying to get their young charges to save for their retirement will: either start a SEP for them or bring them here to learn all about Hyping and much much more.


I'm hoping all the doting Grandparents,parents and guardians will not let their hard-earned be seduced by Hyping and keep things even simpler and more hands off for their young charges -> Investment Trust accumulation units, but we stray O/T.

You are quite right, of course. I can't envisage an 18 year old taking over a substantial HYP and making a success of it, coping with handling corporate actions and reinvestment of dividends. For them a single investment trust with reinvestment of dividends is much more sensible. It is the route which I am following with my own grandchildren, one of whom will be 18 this year.

But this is off topic for this board.

TJH

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#198834

Postby tjh290633 » February 4th, 2019, 2:17 pm

pyad wrote:
moorfield wrote:
Raptor wrote:This is not PYAD HYP Practical but Clariman & Stooz's HYP Practical.


There's the new name of this board then, right there. Problem solved. ;)


Quite. Nothing against the site owners and I many others are grateful to them, but if this is C & S's HYP Practical, let's have their full and detailed method of HYP construction and maintenance then.

Have you actually read the guidelines pinned to the top of this board?

Are you suggesting that everybody should rigidly stick to an "approved" formula?

We suggest guidelines which everyone is free to modify as they think fit. They can even adhere to your own rigid rules if they wish.

TJH

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#198841

Postby pyad » February 4th, 2019, 2:40 pm

tjh290633 wrote:
Have you actually read the guidelines pinned to the top of this board?

Are you suggesting that everybody should rigidly stick to an "approved" formula?

We suggest guidelines which everyone is free to modify as they think fit. They can even adhere to your own rigid rules if they wish.

TJH


In answer to your questions:

a) Yes
b) No

Have you actually read my last response? To repeat:

"What I'm saying is that the sort of HYP that a newcomer might see described here is the image projected by a small minority because they are the vociferous ones."

My comments are not about sticking to my rules or any rules, they concern my view that a small minority dictate their rules which essentially concern tinkering and seeking capital growth, panicking and worrying about macro events etc. Generally promoting the anti HYP view that one always has to be doing something or be concerned about something.

It's not deliberate of course but due simply to sheer volume of their style, which is the style of somebody with something constantly to say whereas the general idea of HYPIng, even for an occasional tinkerer you'll probably agree, is to do nothing. It is this misleading impression that a newcomer might gather, about which I was commenting. But as I've said, I don't see what can be done about it, it's a feature of a lot of forums where a small minority in effect dictate the board, even if that minority is not representative. The silent majority by definition are not here.

Anyway, it's getting boring so let's drop it.

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Re: The Dividend Letter discontinued

#198864

Postby Lootman » February 4th, 2019, 4:26 pm

pyad wrote:What I'm saying is that the sort of HYP that a newcomer might see described here is the image projected by a small minority because they are the vociferous ones.

The flaw at the heart of that statement is evident. Since HYP has no material public life outside of TLF (and before that, TMF) it is highly unlikely that there would be any "newcomer" to HYP who discovered it via any other route. So like it or not, this is is main public forum for discussing and growing the strategy. So what we say here defines it more than any other consensual body or forum, and certainly more than any one individual.

This is not the first time that you have suggested that there is a vast universe "out there" of silent HYP adherents. Obviously they cannot be known if they do not speak, and this is the place for them to speak. So you are safe in claiming that this vast constituency exists and are all loyal to some other version of HYP, because by definition that cannot ever be either verified nor disproved.

You may not like it very much, but this location is now the mantle and vanguard of HYP thinking, taking it forward, improving and progressing it. You had a useful and possibly pivotal role at one point, but now you seem to take it personally every time someone else has a good idea about it. I don't think that ego should get in the way of discovery, nor should rigidity transplant the flexibility to learn and improve.

HYP is not a fixed proprietary product. It is an approach that continually evolves, else it dies.


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