Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to Anonymous,CryptoPlankton,GrahamPlatt,Walkeia,genou, for Donating to support the site

Big Week for Vod

Practical discussions about equity High-Yield Portfolios (HYP) for income
Forum rules
Tight HYP discussions only please - OT please discuss in strategies
Walrus
Lemon Slice
Posts: 255
Joined: March 21st, 2018, 12:32 pm
Has thanked: 52 times
Been thanked: 93 times

Big Week for Vod

#221077

Postby Walrus » May 12th, 2019, 3:01 pm

Looks like this could be an interesting meeting this week. I read in the Times the dividend is to be cut. We have our money man CEO Nick Read adamant it's not.
We have a NZ sale on the horizon, a liberty deal, and expensive 5G auctions on going in Germany.

In a backdrop of negativity price has been fairly static these last 6 months,

Is this a dividend cut backed up with a well received plan leading to a share price rally, or an ill conceived short sighted decision to retain a 3.5 billion dividend.

Feels like this could be the week that my HYP is consigned to the knackers yard and I move to solely investing in ITs for income. Interesting times......

Alaric
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3679
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 9:05 am
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 720 times

Re: Big Week for Vod

#221081

Postby Alaric » May 12th, 2019, 3:31 pm

Walrus wrote:In a backdrop of negativity price has been fairly static these last 6 months,


Vodafone Corporate Bonds stand about 20% above par, so there don't seem doubts about the underlying soundness of the Company's earnings. The share price has dropped to make the dividend yield around 9%. But that's the question, do they intend to maintain the dividend and can they afford to do so?

MDW1954
Lemon Slice
Posts: 793
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:46 pm
Has thanked: 142 times
Been thanked: 167 times

Re: Big Week for Vod

#221126

Postby MDW1954 » May 12th, 2019, 7:51 pm

Moderator Message:
At present this is all just speculation, and Walrus' comments about consigning his or her HYP to the knacker's yard are off-topic. If anyone has any hard information, then post it. But please don't post idle speculation. -- MDW1954

Walrus
Lemon Slice
Posts: 255
Joined: March 21st, 2018, 12:32 pm
Has thanked: 52 times
Been thanked: 93 times

Re: Big Week for Vod

#221132

Postby Walrus » May 12th, 2019, 8:28 pm

MDW1954 wrote:
Moderator Message:
At present this is all just speculation, and Walrus' comments about consigning his or her HYP to the knacker's yard are off-topic. If anyone has any hard information, then post it. But please don't post idle speculation. -- MDW1954


Seriously? Is this for real? It was front page of the Sunday Times today. Seriously I give up.

Walrus
Lemon Slice
Posts: 255
Joined: March 21st, 2018, 12:32 pm
Has thanked: 52 times
Been thanked: 93 times

Re: Big Week for Vod

#221133

Postby Walrus » May 12th, 2019, 8:29 pm

Walrus wrote:
MDW1954 wrote:
Moderator Message:
At present this is all just speculation, and Walrus' comments about consigning his or her HYP to the knacker's yard are off-topic. If anyone has any hard information, then post it. But please don't post idle speculation. -- MDW1954


Seriously? Is this for real? It was front page of the Sunday Times today. Seriously I give up.


Just delete my account please I'm done with this.

moorfield
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1564
Joined: November 7th, 2016, 1:56 pm
Has thanked: 331 times
Been thanked: 372 times

Re: Big Week for Vod

#221140

Postby moorfield » May 12th, 2019, 9:11 pm

Walrus wrote:Seriously? Is this for real? It was front page of the Sunday Times today. Seriously I give up.


What we might be able to salvage from this thread is a discussion of VOD's yield - it has been running at or above twice that of FTSE100 yield for the last year. Now I have been panned routinely here for suggesting such a simple criteria as that disqualifies buying (or topping up) very high yielders without sweating the accounts; but I know this - that has stopped me from chasing VOD's yield for the last year and I feel quite relaxed about a dividend cut that may or may not be coming this week.
Last edited by moorfield on May 12th, 2019, 9:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.

MDW1954
Lemon Slice
Posts: 793
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:46 pm
Has thanked: 142 times
Been thanked: 167 times

Re: Big Week for Vod

#221141

Postby MDW1954 » May 12th, 2019, 9:13 pm

Walrus wrote:
Walrus wrote:
MDW1954 wrote:
Moderator Message:
At present this is all just speculation, and Walrus' comments about consigning his or her HYP to the knacker's yard are off-topic. If anyone has any hard information, then post it. But please don't post idle speculation. -- MDW1954


Seriously? Is this for real? It was front page of the Sunday Times today. Seriously I give up.


Just delete my account please I'm done with this.


Walrus,

I'm going to respond to this, even though I probably shouldn't. I'm a journalist of 30 years standing. A decent chunk of what I do is financial journalism, too.

I've been published in the Sunday Times' business news section. As far as I'm concerned, any dividend cut is speculation until we see the RNS.

If you want to manage your HYP on the basis of rumour and speculation, fine.

Meanwhile, I've forwarded your account for deletion.

MDW1954

MDW1954
Lemon Slice
Posts: 793
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:46 pm
Has thanked: 142 times
Been thanked: 167 times

Re: Big Week for Vod

#221143

Postby MDW1954 » May 12th, 2019, 9:27 pm

moorfield wrote:
Walrus wrote:Seriously? Is this for real? It was front page of the Sunday Times today. Seriously I give up.


What we might be able to salvage from this thread is a discussion of VOD's yield - it has been running at or above twice that of FTSE100 yield for the last year now. Now I have been panned routinely here for suggesting such a simple criteria as that disqualifies buying (or topping up) very high yielders without sweating the accounts; but I know this - that has stopped me from chasing VOD's yield for the last year and I am quite relaxed about a dividend cut that may or may not be coming this week.


If you're suggesting that chasing yield is not without risk, then many of us here would agree with that. A proper discussion of that notion belongs elsewhere, though.

My own view is that VOD's yield has indeed been very high, not least due to a lack of visibility about future earnings. My own (tiny) holding in VOD has *not* been increased, precisely because of that -- irrespective of the high yield.

I don't really understand why the company has been so opaque.

MDW1954

Walrus
Lemon Slice
Posts: 255
Joined: March 21st, 2018, 12:32 pm
Has thanked: 52 times
Been thanked: 93 times

Re: Big Week for Vod

#221148

Postby Walrus » May 12th, 2019, 9:40 pm

MDW1954 wrote:
Walrus wrote:
Walrus wrote:
Seriously? Is this for real? It was front page of the Sunday Times today. Seriously I give up.


Just delete my account please I'm done with this.


Walrus,

I'm going to respond to this, even though I probably shouldn't. I'm a journalist of 30 years standing. A decent chunk of what I do is financial journalism, too.

I've been published in the Sunday Times' business news section. As far as I'm concerned, any dividend cut is speculation until we see the RNS.

If you want to manage your HYP on the basis of rumour and speculation, fine.

Meanwhile, I've forwarded your account for deletion.

MDW1954


Thanks, I appreciate your efficiency in eliminating me.

moorfield
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1564
Joined: November 7th, 2016, 1:56 pm
Has thanked: 331 times
Been thanked: 372 times

Re: Big Week for Vod

#221149

Postby moorfield » May 12th, 2019, 9:40 pm

MDW1954 wrote:If you're suggesting that chasing yield is not without risk, then many of us here would agree with that. A proper discussion of that notion belongs elsewhere, though.


What I'm suggesting is HYP selection/top-up guidelines could be evolved/improved by adopting a yield ceiling, as well as a floor - which is well known of course. You're right that discussion belongs elsewhere; VOD, and CNA, make pertinent case studies of the notion. But what do I know.

MDW1954
Lemon Slice
Posts: 793
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:46 pm
Has thanked: 142 times
Been thanked: 167 times

Re: Big Week for Vod

#221151

Postby MDW1954 » May 12th, 2019, 9:40 pm

MDW1954 wrote:
Walrus wrote:
Walrus wrote:
Seriously? Is this for real? It was front page of the Sunday Times today. Seriously I give up.


Just delete my account please I'm done with this.


Walrus,

I'm going to respond to this, even though I probably shouldn't. I'm a journalist of 30 years standing. A decent chunk of what I do is financial journalism, too.

I've been published in the Sunday Times' business news section. As far as I'm concerned, any dividend cut is speculation until we see the RNS.

If you want to manage your HYP on the basis of rumour and speculation, fine.

Meanwhile, I've forwarded your account for deletion.

MDW1954


I've just heard back that Walrus' account has indeed been deactivated.

MDW1954

idpickering
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4682
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 5:04 pm
Has thanked: 680 times
Been thanked: 1517 times

Re: Big Week for Vod

#221178

Postby idpickering » May 13th, 2019, 6:06 am

MDW1954 wrote:
I've just heard back that Walrus' account has indeed been deactivated.

MDW1954


FWIW I think that's a shame. He/she had a lot to offer this board.

Ian.

Arborbridge
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3538
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:33 am
Has thanked: 688 times
Been thanked: 1126 times

Re: Big Week for Vod

#221185

Postby Arborbridge » May 13th, 2019, 7:13 am

moorfield wrote:
MDW1954 wrote:If you're suggesting that chasing yield is not without risk, then many of us here would agree with that. A proper discussion of that notion belongs elsewhere, though.


What I'm suggesting is HYP selection/top-up guidelines could be evolved/improved by adopting a yield ceiling, as well as a floor - which is well known of course. You're right that discussion belongs elsewhere; VOD, and CNA, make pertinent case studies of the notion. But what do I know.


These are fair comments and those with longer memories will know of Luni's attempts (a long time ago now, it seems) to create "zones" or yield acceptability. Many people didn't accept the idea that there was a "hard border" - or rigid zone - but nevertheless the idea lingers on. Lingers on in the sense that Luni's warnings may set some of our antennae waving a bit when the yield become suspiciously high.
BTW, MDW, I'm not sure why "a proper discussion of this belongs elsewhere" - maybe you could explain that so we can all learn from it? It seems to me that this is exactly the place to discuss it as it part of managing one's HYP. Just another factor to bear in mind along with the dividend record etc.

It's an area where personal taste can have a big influence. Especially in a case like VOD where people have noted the consistently low eps cover which added to the high yield have been a puzzle for years. That the cash flow cover seems reasonable mitigates this, but it isn't surprising if HYPers have been drawing back from topping up or buying VOD.

It would be that VOD becomes another "interesting" test for HYP principles - but my belieif is that my HYP will still carry on doing what it has been doing for the past ten years - providing my with a significant part of my pension. That's even after all my blunders and self doubts along the way :?

Arb.

onslow
Lemon Pip
Posts: 75
Joined: September 9th, 2017, 4:29 pm
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 29 times

Re: Big Week for Vod

#221191

Postby onslow » May 13th, 2019, 7:44 am

MDW1954 wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, any dividend cut is speculation until we see the RNS.

MDW1954


So we cant discuss any potential rising/lowering of dividends for particular companies until its been annouced in a RNS?

VOD has been discussed many times, on this board, given the low EPS coverage of its dividend. Yet we cant discuss a headline article in one of the weekends leading newspapers, days before VOD announces it results?

Moderator Message:
The small throwaway opinion on moderating has been deleted because discussion of moderation is not allowed on this board. Chris

Lootman
Lemon Half
Posts: 6080
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 946 times

Re: Big Week for Vod

#221194

Postby Lootman » May 13th, 2019, 7:53 am

onslow wrote:
MDW1954 wrote:As far as I'm concerned, any dividend cut is speculation until we see the RNS.

So we cant discuss any potential rising/lowering of dividends for particular companies until its been annouced in a RNS?

That is odd because the TLF HYP-P guidelines specifically talk about the ability to discuss here future potential HY shares that are not currently HY (nor ever have been).

Surely that requires the ability to discuss why they may become HY in the future, i.e. some type of speculation or prediction.

Does that mean that we can discuss shares which may increase their payouts in the future but not those which may decrease them?

idpickering
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4682
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 5:04 pm
Has thanked: 680 times
Been thanked: 1517 times

Re: Big Week for Vod

#221197

Postby idpickering » May 13th, 2019, 7:58 am

At this rate I fear others will follow Walrus’s lead and depart this board.

Ian.
Moderator Message:
This post has nothing whatsoever to do with the practicalities of running an HYP. Please consider the guidelines and try to adhere to them. Thanks - Chris

Arborbridge
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3538
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:33 am
Has thanked: 688 times
Been thanked: 1126 times

Re: Big Week for Vod

#221208

Postby Arborbridge » May 13th, 2019, 8:33 am

And at the risk of poking a snake with a stick:

discussing or using, forecasts dividends is also speculation. Yet most of us do it.



Arb.

Arborbridge
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3538
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:33 am
Has thanked: 688 times
Been thanked: 1126 times

Re: Big Week for Vod

#221210

Postby Arborbridge » May 13th, 2019, 8:38 am

idpickering wrote:At this rate I fear others will follow Walrus’s lead and depart this board.

Ian.


We should start another thread in some other board - though heaven knows which - but I'll just say I regret losing Walrus. We need people with slightly different POVs to avoid the notorious group think. Any tendency to chase people like that away will surely make any board less enjoyable and, more to the point, less effective.

Let's hope this is just a "flounce" and that Walrus will return.

Arb.

bluedonkey
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 213
Joined: November 13th, 2016, 3:41 pm
Has thanked: 158 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: Big Week for Vod

#221242

Postby bluedonkey » May 13th, 2019, 10:55 am

What's the fuss? He asked to be deleted. He was deleted.

Arborbridge
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3538
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:33 am
Has thanked: 688 times
Been thanked: 1126 times

Re: Big Week for Vod

#221245

Postby Arborbridge » May 13th, 2019, 10:58 am

bluedonkey wrote:What's the fuss? He asked to be deleted. He was deleted.


Possibly tip of the iceberg, that's the problem.


Arb.


Return to “High Yield Portfolios (HYP) - Practical”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests