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British Land

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Dod101
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British Land

#229195

Postby Dod101 » June 13th, 2019, 12:57 pm

I did not want to wander too far from the original topic on the ITH thread so I have started this new thread. It relates very much to British Land so bear with me!

As some will know A & J Mucklow is the subject of a takeover offer from Londonmetric. I do not particularly want shares in that company so have just sold in the market today at what is a 25% profit since I bought in February 2018. I am sorry to see another small family company go but the decent capital gain (in an ISA) is some compensation. I looked to see where the funds for buying Mucklow came from. They arose when I sold B Land for £6.474 (I think I recorded it here at the time). B Land are today quoted at £5.40. That is why I do not like B Land. By chance quite good deal.

I make no comment on the merits of a HYP.

For those interested, I have just bought M J Gleeson with most of the proceeds. They have a higher yield than Mucklow at 4% and so within HYP territory. The shares were down when they lost their CEO earlier this week and it is a similar family concern although a smallish housebuilder this time.

The balance of the proceeds may well go to an IT.

Dod
Moderator Message:
This post perhaps doesn't have the most descriptive title possible, and MJ Gleeson might not be on most HYPers radars. But be that as it may, in the interests of pragmatism, this thread is deemed on-topic for the board, although it might be re-titled. So thank you to those who have reported it, and there's no need to report it again. -- MDW1954

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Re: British Land

#229511

Postby Arborbridge » June 14th, 2019, 3:00 pm

Dod101 wrote:I did not want to wander too far from the original topic on the ITH thread so I have started this new thread. It relates very much to British Land so bear with me!

As some will know A & J Mucklow is the subject of a takeover offer from Londonmetric. I do not particularly want shares in that company so have just sold in the market today at what is a 25% profit since I bought in February 2018. I am sorry to see another small family company go but the decent capital gain (in an ISA) is some compensation. I looked to see where the funds for buying Mucklow came from. They arose when I sold B Land for £6.474 (I think I recorded it here at the time). B Land are today quoted at £5.40. That is why I do not like B Land. By chance quite good deal.

I make no comment on the merits of a HYP.

For those interested, I have just bought M J Gleeson with most of the proceeds. They have a higher yield than Mucklow at 4% and so within HYP territory. The shares were down when they lost their CEO earlier this week and it is a similar family concern although a smallish housebuilder this time.

The balance of the proceeds may well go to an IT.

Dod

<leg-pulling mode on>
Blnd shares are down and you say that's why you don't like them.

Gleeson shares are down and that's why you do like them.

DOH!

<leg-pulling mode off>

For what it's worth, I can see that Gleeson has put in a much better capital performance than BLND since Dec 2018, so it would be well worth investigating the options here. The yield is a bit thin, but the dividend rises out pace BLND - though many people would shrink at the small size of the company, £436 million.

Arb.

Dod101
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Re: British Land

#229528

Postby Dod101 » June 14th, 2019, 3:46 pm

Arborbridge wrote:<leg-pulling mode on>
Blnd shares are down and you say that's why you don't like them.

Gleeson shares are down and that's why you do like them.

DOH!

<leg-pulling mode off>

For what it's worth, I can see that Gleeson has put in a much better capital performance than BLND since Dec 2018, so it would be well worth investigating the options here. The yield is a bit thin, but the dividend rises out pace BLND - though many people would shrink at the small size of the company, £436 million.

Arb.


Ah but as you will have noticed I sold B Land before their latest lurch downwards. I have never liked them because I just have not seen much from them and I was concerned about Brexit and the relocation of some staff (reported; whether true or not or what affect it is having I do not know) and of course the retail woes. If you still hold Daejan, you will know that property companies assets are often much undervalued and can remain that way for a long time. So 14 months or so ago when I sold them I just did not see much going for them. I got a higher yield from Mucklow and by chance it is now the subject of a bid, resulting in a windfall for public shareholders. I do not welcome that as I would rather be holding it (just as I would Amlin) but alas good smallish companies are often sold.

Gleeson is a share I have been looking at for a while. It is a niche player in the housing market and I like the family holding. After the fall out with the CEO the shares came back a bit and it seemed like a nice conjunction of events. Incidentally the CEO is 71 so he should have been negotiating his retirement package anyway.

Dod

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Re: British Land

#229681

Postby Walrus101 » June 15th, 2019, 11:20 am

Dod101 wrote:I did not want to wander too far from the original topic on the ITH thread so I have started this new thread. It relates very much to British Land so bear with me!

As some will know A & J Mucklow is the subject of a takeover offer from Londonmetric. I do not particularly want shares in that company so have just sold in the market today at what is a 25% profit since I bought in February 2018. I am sorry to see another small family company go but the decent capital gain (in an ISA) is some compensation. I looked to see where the funds for buying Mucklow came from. They arose when I sold B Land for £6.474 (I think I recorded it here at the time). B Land are today quoted at £5.40. That is why I do not like B Land. By chance quite good deal.

I make no comment on the merits of a HYP.

For those interested, I have just bought M J Gleeson with most of the proceeds. They have a higher yield than Mucklow at 4% and so within HYP territory. The shares were down when they lost their CEO earlier this week and it is a similar family concern although a smallish housebuilder this time.

The balance of the proceeds may well go to an IT.

Dod
Moderator Message:
This post perhaps doesn't have the most descriptive title possible, and MJ Gleeson might not be on most HYPers radars. But be that as it may, in the interests of pragmatism, this thread is deemed on-topic for the board, although it might be re-titled. So thank you to those who have reported it, and there's no need to report it again. -- MDW1954



Well looks like a clever disposal on your part. The contrarian part of me is starting to think Land is starting to look more interesting no e it has fallen. Am monitoring this and NRR on the REIT space. Woodford's position in that though concerns me. Definately keeping a watching brief right now.

Dod101
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Re: British Land

#229690

Postby Dod101 » June 15th, 2019, 12:04 pm

Thanks Walrus. It was not being clever on my part, simply that I wanted to stay in the general property sector and the timing worked quite well. The point however of my story was that I am sure there are better property plays than B Land and I was simply trying to illustrate this. Some dedicated HYPers though cannot see past the likes of B Land or say Land Securities. No one said that capital does not matter; simply that it should not be a priority.

Gleeson is small but that apart it has a decent yield, within HYP territory at 4%, quite good enough for me in these difficult times for many of the usual suspects.

Dod

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Re: British Land

#229697

Postby Walrus101 » June 15th, 2019, 12:44 pm

Dod101 wrote:Thanks Walrus. It was not being clever on my part, simply that I wanted to stay in the general property sector and the timing worked quite well. The point however of my story was that I am sure there are better property plays than B Land and I was simply trying to illustrate this. Some dedicated HYPers though cannot see past the likes of B Land or say Land Securities. No one said that capital does not matter; simply that it should not be a priority.

Gleeson is small but that apart it has a decent yield, within HYP territory at 4%, quite good enough for me in these difficult times for many of the usual suspects.

Dod



Appreciate what you are saying and your thesis over the short run has proved correct. I would however counterv that with, as part of a diversified property portfolio a piece of Bland at it's current price may not be such a terrible investment. Obviously exposed to London and brexit risk, it trades at a pretty decent discount to NAV and yield appears covered at 5.75%. I think as HYP favourites go this is actually looking fairly priced. That being said I topped up IMB again last week presumably buying from Woody, so I won't be doing anything anytime soon.

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Re: British Land

#229717

Postby idpickering » June 15th, 2019, 1:57 pm

Walrus101 wrote:

Appreciate what you are saying and your thesis over the short run has proved correct. I would however counterv that with, as part of a diversified property portfolio a piece of Bland at it's current price may not be such a terrible investment. Obviously exposed to London and brexit risk, it trades at a pretty decent discount to NAV and yield appears covered at 5.75%. I think as HYP favourites go this is actually looking fairly priced. That being said I topped up IMB again last week presumably buying from Woody, so I won't be doing anything anytime soon.


Well said Walrus. I mentioned in another thread that I was buying more BLND this Thursday, and that is still going to happen, with a smaller top up of my BATS holdings.

Ian.

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Re: British Land

#229739

Postby Arborbridge » June 15th, 2019, 4:13 pm

Dod101 wrote:Thanks Walrus. It was not being clever on my part, simply that I wanted to stay in the general property sector and the timing worked quite well. The point however of my story was that I am sure there are better property plays than B Land and I was simply trying to illustrate this. Some dedicated HYPers though cannot see past the likes of B Land or say Land Securities. No one said that capital does not matter; simply that it should not be a priority.

Gleeson is small but that apart it has a decent yield, within HYP territory at 4%, quite good enough for me in these difficult times for many of the usual suspects.

Dod


An interesting point here, when you say 4% is "HYP territory". I believe the FTSE yield is of the order of 4.5%, if so 4% is not strictly HYP territory - though I accept that some people would find this yield acceptable. It is only comparable to some other pooled investments which would arguably give a similar income for lower risk.

The point about HYP is that it is meant to be HIGH yield ;)

Arb.

Dod101
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Re: British Land

#229745

Postby Dod101 » June 15th, 2019, 5:04 pm

Good point Arb. As you know I do not run a HYP as defined on this Board so 4% is good enough for me. It is generally in the right ball park though.

Dod

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Re: British Land

#229810

Postby Walrus101 » June 16th, 2019, 12:18 am

Arborbridge wrote:
Dod101 wrote:Thanks Walrus. It was not being clever on my part, simply that I wanted to stay in the general property sector and the timing worked quite well. The point however of my story was that I am sure there are better property plays than B Land and I was simply trying to illustrate this. Some dedicated HYPers though cannot see past the likes of B Land or say Land Securities. No one said that capital does not matter; simply that it should not be a priority.

Gleeson is small but that apart it has a decent yield, within HYP territory at 4%, quite good enough for me in these difficult times for many of the usual suspects.

Dod


An interesting point here, when you say 4% is "HYP territory". I believe the FTSE yield is of the order of 4.5%, if so 4% is not strictly HYP territory - though I accept that some people would find this yield acceptable. It is only comparable to some other pooled investments which would arguably give a similar income for lower risk.

The point about HYP is that it is meant to be HIGH yield ;)

Arb.
I must admit the ftse yield being that high I had not noticed. That's quite a hurdle vs passive investing. FTSE cheap? or a dog?

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Re: British Land

#229815

Postby Alaric » June 16th, 2019, 12:37 am

Walrus101 wrote: FTSE cheap? or a dog?


Take a look at the top 10 at
https://www.dividenddata.co.uk/dividend ... et=ftse100

As of writing, the displayed yield on the Index is 4.46%.

Eliminating the Shell double count, of the top 10 by weight, there's 6 above par

HSBC at 6.28%
BP at 6.04%
Shell at 5.94%/5.93%
GlaxoSmithKline at 5.05%
BAT at 7.04%
Rio Tinto at 5.11%

and 4 below

Diageo at 1.95%
AstraZeneca at 3.58%
Unilever at 2.81%
Reckitt Benckiser at 2.62%

I would suspect that over the last 5 years, investors in the bottom 4 have done rather better than investors in the top 6 provided you look at a total return basis.

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Re: British Land

#229821

Postby Arborbridge » June 16th, 2019, 7:00 am

Alaric wrote:
Walrus101 wrote: FTSE cheap? or a dog?


Take a look at the top 10 at
https://www.dividenddata.co.uk/dividend ... et=ftse100

As of writing, the displayed yield on the Index is 4.46%.

Eliminating the Shell double count, of the top 10 by weight, there's 6 above par

HSBC at 6.28%
BP at 6.04%
Shell at 5.94%/5.93%
GlaxoSmithKline at 5.05%
BAT at 7.04%
Rio Tinto at 5.11%

and 4 below

Diageo at 1.95%
AstraZeneca at 3.58%
Unilever at 2.81%
Reckitt Benckiser at 2.62%

I would suspect that over the last 5 years, investors in the bottom 4 have done rather better than investors in the top 6 provided you look at a total return basis.


I believe you are probably correct, but that point is not often in dispute. However, the feature of this board is that we are "going for" a high and increasing stream of income, and not "capital harvesting". I need hardly remind you that this is the HYP practical board.

Arb.

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Re: British Land

#229827

Postby monabri » June 16th, 2019, 8:03 am

Total returns , last 5 years
(Reading by eye from graph so figures are subject to a little error..especially early on a Sunday morning ;) )

https://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-discoun ... ion/charts

HSBA, RDSB, RB 40% .....pretty much the same .

Unilever & Rio Tinto 120% (special divi increased return)
Diageo 115%
AZN 75%


( Select "equity " as the investment type and then type the company ticker and 'add'...max of 7 companies to display....after removing 'Vanguard )

Arborbridge
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Re: British Land

#229838

Postby Arborbridge » June 16th, 2019, 8:54 am

Perhaps a discussion to be re-started on HY board? There's no future for further discussion here...
What this is really about is TR/growth versus TR/HY, which has no place on the HYP practical board.


Arb.

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Re: British Land

#229842

Postby IanTHughes » June 16th, 2019, 9:09 am

Arborbridge wrote:Perhaps a discussion to be re-started on HY board? There's no future for further discussion here....

Is there a Hindsight Portfolio board on TLF?


Ian

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Re: British Land

#229870

Postby Gengulphus » June 16th, 2019, 10:55 am

IanTHughes wrote:Is there a Hindsight Portfolio board on TLF?

I think viewforum.php?f=78 seems suitable, but if all else fails, that will make it fit in viewforum.php?f=74... ;-)

Gengulphus

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Re: British Land

#230005

Postby MDW1954 » June 16th, 2019, 8:13 pm

Dod101 wrote:The point however of my story was that I am sure there are better property plays than B Land and I was simply trying to illustrate this. Some dedicated HYPers though cannot see past the likes of B Land or say Land Securities.

Dod


Indeed. As I have posted several times, ESP, PHP, BBOX et al are all better plays at the moment, in my view.

MDW1954

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Re: British Land

#230015

Postby Lootman » June 16th, 2019, 8:56 pm

Barrons had a piece on British Land last week:

https://www.barrons.com/articles/britis ... 1559939296

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Re: British Land

#230038

Postby idpickering » June 17th, 2019, 6:01 am

Lootman wrote:Barrons had a piece on British Land last week:

https://www.barrons.com/articles/britis ... 1559939296


A good read, thanks Lootman. It seems BLND are aware of the retail sector issues, and are adjusting the portfolio mix to adjust to it, It is good to see. Let the mangers do their job, and give them time to do so. I'm holding for the long term, not just during the current dip. My top up on this Thursday still stands.

Ian.

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Re: British Land

#230749

Postby idpickering » June 19th, 2019, 1:39 pm

idpickering wrote:
I mentioned in another thread that I was buying more BLND this Thursday, and that is still going to happen, with a smaller top up of my BATS holdings.

Ian.


Further to my comment above, I have elected to go all in on BLND tomorrow, and no BATS top up. I'm going to leave my tobacco holdings (BATS & IMB) alone for now. This will bring BLND up to average capital value weighting in my 30 share HYP.

Ian.


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