Eisman shorts HSBC and STAN

[Fluke]

Following the collapse of Carillion someone suggested adding shorting in some form or other to their list of selection criteria when adding a new share or topping up. I thought of this today as have been thinking of topping up HSBC but read in today's paper that Steve Eisman of Big Short fame has shorted HSBC and Standard Chartered because of what's going on in Hong Kong.

Thinking I might hang back, any thoughts?

[johnhemming]

I don't short, but in doing my analysis of which stocks to invest in I excluded HSBC for this reason.

I will post the list of stocks at some stage, but I need to do a bit of work on it.

[monabri]

Where and when did the shorting start? Is there any data to support the rumours?

HSBA : August 27th share price £5.81...September 13th, share price £6.30.

There is no significant shorting of HSBA/ STAN on the UK FCA database (as reported by Short Tracker ). Could he be shorting on other exchanges..if so, how do we find out?





(There we were...lead to believe it was Lloyds not so long ago..discussed on TLF recently)

[monabri]

Article from Nov 18.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -on-brexit

He didn't state which banks but people jumped to conclusions ( see the article).

( apparently he is shorting Canadian banks as well).

However, he can't short a company to any great extent without disclosing it..so we would need to see the evidence ( for HSBA ).

[Dod101]

This is surely old news (the article is dated November 2018) and if so I correctly suggested Lloyds and RBS at the time. Is this another story? See the story on the Lloyds thread around 2 September 2019 (Company Share news (Main market)) I have forgotten how to cross post or whatever the phrase is)

Dod

[Arborbridge]

Following the collapse of Carillion someone suggested adding shorting in some form or other to their list of selection criteria when adding a new share or topping up. I thought of this today as have been thinking of topping up HSBC but read in today's paper that Steve Eisman of Big Short fame has shorted HSBC and Standard Chartered because of what's going on in Hong Kong.

Thinking I might hang back, any thoughts?

I see no shorts! Evidence? Where did you read this? Quote something which might be convincing for us, please.

Even if there were shorts, it is far from a reliable sign of a death knell for any company.

Arb.

[Arborbridge]

This is surely old news (the article is dated November 2018) and if so I correctly suggested Lloyds and RBS at the time. Is this another story?

Dod

Interesting that you say that, because short tracker doesn't show any shorts on RBS since Jan 2017. Unless there is some data error, RBS could not have been significantly shorted - neither is Lloyds listed in the short tracker.

The only bank with significant shorts on in either November 2018 or now is Metro Bank.


Arb.

[Dod101]

HI Arb

I found the reference. I am not claiming I was correct but OLTB certainly thought I was. Anyway it does not bother me one way or the other because I do not listen to such stories. Eisberg was mentioned in both cases and it sounds like the same one.

Dod

[TUK020]

Any thoughts?

As a result of the Carillion debacle, I now regularly check the short tracker
https://shorttracker.co.uk/companies/?sort=2&d=desc
No scientifically generated cut off figure, but plucked out of the air - i don't hold anything with more than 5% shorting from a peace of mind perspective.
The highest % shorts holdings that I have are now Marstons and Vodafone.

I have not singled out any individual player to follow. Not sure if you can attribute Eisner as being cleverer than all the others, or luckier in the past.

[Arborbridge]

HI Arb

I found the reference. I am not claiming I was correct but OLTB certainly thought I was. Anyway it does not bother me one way or the other because I do not listen to such stories. Eisberg was mentioned in both cases and it sounds like the same one.

Dod

Probably just as well not to listen to such stories, because it is quite possible we've seen here our own version of "fake news"!

There's no evidence that anyone has been able to dig out that they has been any significant shorting of either of the two banks mentioned - so any shorting was less than the 0.5% threshold, hardly earth shattering.

A collateral piece of fake news resulted too - that "Dod was right, All hail Dod" - and you've polished your halo on the pure hearsay that OLTB seems to think you are correct

I'm not intending to have a go at you in particular (we are all capable of do this, myself included), but this is how rather shaky news stories can be elevated to "common knowledge" and shows exactly why - as you say - we should ignore them. Although whilst ignoring them, it is probably also wise not to add to them

Apologies to all if some hard facts emerge which show that the were significant shorts, but we can only go with the facts as reasonably documented rather than rumoured.

Arb.

[idpickering]

HI Arb

I found the reference. I am not claiming I was correct but OLTB certainly thought I was. Anyway it does not bother me one way or the other because I do not listen to such stories. Eisberg was mentioned in both cases and it sounds like the same one.

Dod

Me neither Dod. Just another example of a knee jerk reaction, seemingly trying to cause some concern and angst. I'm ignoring this 'story' and shall comment on it no further, unless more evidence is forthcoming. I would say strategic ignorance applies here, but I know you don't give that term much weight, if any at all.

Ian.

[IanTHughes]

Following the collapse of Carillion someone suggested adding shorting in some form or other to their list of selection criteria when adding a new share or topping up. I thought of this today as have been thinking of topping up HSBC but read in today's paper that Steve Eisman of Big Short fame has shorted HSBC and Standard Chartered because of what's going on in Hong Kong.

Thinking I might hang back, any thoughts?

Thoughts? Yes, I am thinking that I will have smoked salmon for breakfast!



Ian

[Dod101]

The heading of this thread is really how these 'fake news' stories gather traction. They should not be allowed but I guess there is no way to stop them. I would never give such stories any credence but am quite prepared to speculate if I think that is worthwhile, or simply for a bit of fun. I will not if I can help it try to mislead anyone or present something as fact (which the heading of this thread does) when it is mere speculation.

My comments on the other thread were made in that vein.

Meanwhile my car is due an MOT today so I will leave it there.

Dod

[Fluke]

It was in yesterday's Mail on Sunday, the financial section, big headline "Big Short Investor targets UK banks in Hong Kong Crisis".

The article refers to Eisman's newly formed Absolute Alpha fund and that he has taken out a short position worth £1.4 million against Stan and that there is a video update on the firms website (I couldn't find it) where he says he is shorting HSBC.

Shorting is a bit of a mystery to me hence my post here to see if anyone else was concerned or indeed include shorting considerations when selecting or topping up especially since the Carillion collapse. Point taken about my post's subject header though, bit alarmist.

[Arborbridge]

It was in yesterday's Mail on Sunday, the financial section, big headline "Big Short Investor targets UK banks in Hong Kong Crisis".

The article refers to Eisman's newly formed Absolute Alpha fund and that he has taken out a short position worth £1.4 million against Stan and that there is a video update on the firms website (I couldn't find it) where he says he is shorting HSBC.

Shorting is a bit of a mystery to me hence my post here to see if anyone else was concerned or indeed include shorting considerations when selecting or topping up especially since the Carillion collapse. Point taken about my post's subject header though, bit alarmist.

Thanks for the further details - though I'm no sure the DM is regarded as a paragon of virtue when it comes to accurate reporting

My own feeling about shorting is that it is at best a rather inaccurate guide to investing wisely. Hedge funds, on the whole, want to make a quick buck rather than kill the companies they short. Wounding the beast and letting it recover, rinse and repeat, is much better for their profits! Note: shorts mean a group of investors believe the share price will fall in the short or medium term. It does not necessarily mean extinction is on the way! Share prices decline and recover all the time, and that's how Hedgies make their money.

Anything less than 8-10% is probably more of less run of the mill for a company having a hard time (from which it will probably recover) and anything over 10-15% - well, you are possibly too late!

[idpickering]

It was in yesterday's Mail on Sunday, the financial section, big headline "Big Short Investor targets UK banks in Hong Kong Crisis".

The article refers to Eisman's newly formed Absolute Alpha fund and that he has taken out a short position worth £1.4 million against Stan and that there is a video update on the firms website (I couldn't find it) where he says he is shorting HSBC.

Shorting is a bit of a mystery to me hence my post here to see if anyone else was concerned or indeed include shorting considerations when selecting or topping up especially since the Carillion collapse. Point taken about my post's subject header though, bit alarmist.

I’m the same re shorting tbh. Thanks for your efforts Fluke, I wasn’t knocking you at all.

Ian.

[Itsallaguess]

It was in yesterday's Mail on Sunday, the financial section, big headline "Big Short Investor targets UK banks in Hong Kong Crisis".

The article refers to Eisman's newly formed Absolute Alpha fund and that he has taken out a short position worth £1.4 million against Stan and that there is a video update on the firms website (I couldn't find it) where he says he is shorting HSBC.

I've sent you a PM regarding you posting the same 'Eisman shorts' topic on different boards.

This can get confusing for people if parallel discussions develop on the different threads, and for that reason it's something we try to avoid by asking people to only post once regarding their main topic, and then if you do wish to grab the attention of other users in different areas of the site, then the use of what we call 'Cross-posts' is the normal convention to help avoid any confusion.

Hopefully my PM will explain the above in more detail.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Moderator Message:
Posts merged at OP's request

TJH

[Fluke]

I've sent you a PM regarding you posting the same 'Eisman shorts' topic on different boards.

This can get confusing for people if parallel discussions develop on the different threads, and for that reason it's something we try to avoid by asking people to only post once regarding their main topic, and then if you do wish to grab the attention of other users in different areas of the site, then the use of what we call 'Cross-posts' is the normal convention to help avoid any confusion.

Hopefully my PM will explain the above in more detail.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

I've sent you a reply itsallaguess, the system went a bit wonky last night while submitting the post, returning error messages, so being impatient I tried again on the other board, same thing happened so I left it, when I went back both posts were there. Apologies, didn't mean to confuse.

[monabri]

We might check the FCA database ( or, simpler, "Short Tracker") and see no visible shorting ( over 0,5%) on a company and conclude there is no issue..but does that only apply to the LSE? Could a hedge fund manager be actively shorting a multinational company on other markets?

[Fluke]

Thanks for the further details - though I'm no sure the DM is regarded as a paragon of virtue when it comes to accurate reporting

MoS if you please and hey it was free in Costa. Thanks for your thoughts arb, I'll see what else I can find. I suffered heavy losses with Carillion so bit jumpy these days when it comes to topping up.