Our newest HYPster

[moorfield]

Please give a warm welcome to Mr Neil Woodford, ladies and gentlemen ....

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... suspension

Neil Woodford has piled cash into FTSE 100 stocks after seeing the value of his flagship fund tumble 13% following its shock suspension in June.

On Monday, Woodford Investment Management revealed that the bulk of the proceeds – about 84% – had been reinvested in London-listed blue chip stocks including Imperial Tobacco, BT and the British Airways owner, IAG.

Some things one cannot make up.

[monabri]

Beat me to it!

WE don't charge thousands per day though!

[AndyPandy]

Beat me to it!

WE don't charge thousands per day though!

We could. Does make you wonder whether, with all the collective wisdom here, we should set up our own Fund Management Company (henceforth known as the Lemon Fool Fund Management Company or LFFMC). Some contributors are active or past Fund Managers anyway and might relish the challenge.

"Have you been affected by the Neil Woodford debacle? When life gives you lemons, invest in a Lemon"

It's a shame PIPs are no longer around as a Lemon PIP has a certain ring to to it.

Three initial funds, other suggestions welcome

LFFMC Pure HYP Fund
LFFMC HYPish Fund
LFFMC Not really HYP as I buy and sell on an occasional whim, but I've still done better than Neil Woodford this year thank you very much. Fund.

No initial charge for coming up with the idea, but if you could chuck me 0.75% of the funds' values each year even if you have to lock any down for any reason that would be appreciated. Seems to be the going rate.

[idpickering]

I'm losing faith in managers of large institutions. It seems they're only really interested in filling their own pockets. TCG is an obvious example I think. Going back to this item, what other HYP shares did he buy from the higher index? I certainly wouldn't have invested in a company operating planes, or remotely involved in the fickleness of tourism, again look what happened to TCG.

Ian.

[Dod101]

I'm losing faith in managers of large institutions. It seems they're only really interested in filling their own pockets. TCG is an obvious example I think. Going back to this item, what other HYP shares did he buy from the higher index? I certainly wouldn't have invested in a company operating planes, or remotely involved in the fickleness of tourism, again look what happened to TCG.

Ian.

I have never had much faith in managers of large institutions (by which I assume you mean the Neil Woodfords of this world) Mostly, fund managers of ITs are not so bad because they are monitored by the Board of Directors but people like Woodford and for that matter HL and similar are only interested in their own bottom line unless forced to do otherwise.

Dod

[pyad]

Beat me to it!

WE don't charge thousands per day though!

Do you still refer to him as "Woody"?

[moorfield]

Do you still refer to him as "Woody"?

Perhaps "Wooden" might be a better monicker?

He's back into IMB anyway, which makes me wonder how much money he wouldn't have lost by simply holding onto them from the start?

[idpickering]

He's back into IMB anyway, which makes me wonder how much money he wouldn't have lost by simply holding onto them from the start?

Not to mention the dividends he would've received for his funds, more importantly, for the benefit of his clients, just for retaining the shares.

Ian.

[spiderbill]

If I wasn't so far underwater with IMB this news would make me consider selling them. And wouldn't touch BT with a bargepole.

[moorfield]

If I wasn't so far underwater with IMB this news would make me consider selling them.

Well everyone else is, down 3.2% today as I type. Perhaps on the news that "Wooden" is buying.

And wouldn't touch BT with a bargepole.

Well after extensive analysis, interviewing management etc. , as one might expect of him, "Wooden" must know something we don't ....

[Gengulphus]

Three initial funds, other suggestions welcome

LFFMC Pure HYP Fund

That's almost a contradiction in terms - a "pure HYP" is supposed to do very little trading after being set up initially, just the sales forced by takeovers and possibly other corporate actions, and reinvestment of returned capital. But the usual forms of marketed funds are "open-ended", meaning that they respond to investors wanting to put money into the fund by using that money to buy more investments for the fund, and to them wanting to take money out of the fund by selling investments from the fund. Only trading in response to the occasional corporate action and trading whenever investors want to put money into or withdraw it from the fund are simply incompatible with each other, so a Pure HYP unit trust, a Pure HYP OEIC and a Pure HYP ETF aren't possible.

But investment trusts are closed-ended - i.e. the fund doesn't accept further funds other than initially and possibly on specific later fundraisings. So LFFMC could run the LFFMC Pure HYP IT. Or you might even take the attitude that I've seen some HYPers take, that the purest HYPs are those set up with a single lump sum on a specific starting date and then left to themselves as far as possible. That has the nice advantage of giving LFFMC an endless stream of new products to launch - LFFMC Pure HYP IT 19, LFFMC Pure HYP IT 20, LFFMC Pure HYP IT 21, ... ;-)

... Does make you wonder whether, with all the collective wisdom here, we should set up our own Fund Management Company (henceforth known as the Lemon Fool Fund Management Company or LFFMC). ...

Just in case anyone wants to use my contribution to that collective wisdom, I think I should make it clear that while I make it freely available, supplying it is entirely at my discretion and I accept no responsibility whatsoever for ensuring that it is actually wise, or indeed anything else... And LFFMC will have to pay me very handsomely indeed if they want to negotiate any other terms! ;-)

Gengulphus

[JuanDB]

As Moorfield send in the opening post

Some things one cannot make up.

That both IAG and IMB issue adverse trading statements less than a week after this article was posted is some kind of comic tragedy.

You almost have to feel sorry for the guy, and more so other investors in anything he casts his dark shadow over.

[spiderbill]

Well after extensive analysis, interviewing management etc. , as one might expect of him, "Wooden" must know something we don't ....

Well it seems I should have ignored the fact that I was already well under and just sold immediately. He seems to have the Midas touch in reverse.

[moorfield]

some kind of comic tragedy.

Or a tragic comedy? (is there a difference, I wonder)

Wooden's investors must be weeping watching the price crash today. His broker chums, no doubt, won't be.

Which raises one practical HYP question perhaps- is it wise to buy or top up immediately (say <1 week) prior to trading, interim and finals announcements? Should the time to buy always be "now"?

[IanTHughes]

some kind of comic tragedy.

Or a tragic comedy? (is there a difference, I wonder)

Which raises one practical HYP question perhaps- is it wise to buy or top up immediately (say <1 week) prior to trading, interim and finals announcements? Should the time to buy always be "now"?

The answer to that is obvious:

- Yes, if the Trading Update, Interim or Final Results are going to be better than the market expects then buy now
- No, if the Trading Update, Interim or Final Results are going to be worse than the market expects then wait before buying

The problem of course is how to know in advance which of the above scenarios will come to pass


Ian

[JuanDB]

Or a tragic comedy? (is there a difference, I wonder)

Wooden's investors must be weeping watching the price crash today. His broker chums, no doubt, won't be.

WPCT down 7.5% as I write. Despite that, the discount to NAV has actually narrowed. Underlying asset values dropping faster than the price. No good news here.

[moorfield]

- Yes, if the Trading Update, Interim or Final Results are going to be better than the market expects then buy now
- No, if the Trading Update, Interim or Final Results are going to be worse than the market expects then wait before buying

Quite so; one presumes Wooden was expecting a good set of results (based on the extensive analysis etc. one imagines his fees afford him the ability to conduct) to commit his investors' cash. Otherwise he could be viewed as incompetent or irresponsible.

So his HYP has got off to a so-so start but we shouldn't discourage newbies. I hope he feels up to posting his full portfolio here on LF. He might learn something!

[Gengulphus]

The answer to that is obvious:

- Yes, if the Trading Update, Interim or Final Results are going to be better than the market expects then buy now
- No, if the Trading Update, Interim or Final Results are going to be worse than the market expects then wait before buying

The problem of course is how to know in advance which of the above scenarios will come to pass

And the follow-up problem if you manage to solve that one and trade on the answer is how to avoid a jail term!

Gengulphus

[JuanDB]

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/neil-woodford-curse-hits-imperial-112946939.html

Posted earlier today and relevant to this thread.