Vodafone Half Yearly Report

[Alaric]

I only wish that I could be as efficient in this investing lark as you so evidently are, but of course I feel it important to ascertain whether a dividend is or is not sustainable and in my view your method seems to ignore this. I would find that rather a drawback when investing in an HYP, even if you do not.

Dividends are decided by the Directors. Dividends can be sustained for quite a while by using up the Company's retained earnings and borrowing powers. Carillion should be warning enough on that front. I see little point in investing for a high dividend only to lose it with a fall in market value.

[IanTHughes]

I only wish that I could be as efficient in this investing lark as you so evidently are, but of course I feel it important to ascertain whether a dividend is or is not sustainable and in my view your method seems to ignore this. I would find that rather a drawback when investing in an HYP, even if you do not.

I see little point in investing for a high dividend only to lose it with a fall in market value.

How nice that we can end on a note of agreement.


Ian

[Arborbridge]

Conversely, a company with poor dividend cover, weak cash flow and high heating is very likely to do so"

high *gearing* obvs.

Another win for autocorrect...

One of the first signs of trouble in a company is surely low heating Along with the removal of the office pot-plant displays.

[Alaric]

A decision that means that during its first year, the virtual portfolio will receive 5.11% of the original cost of the holding as income. Are you perhaps suggesting that another selection would have generated a larger income?

5.11% is barely above what you might get on a FTSE 100 Tracker, but the logic to buying Vodafone presumed a much higher dividend yield.

[IanTHughes]

A decision that means that during its first year, the virtual portfolio will receive 5.11% of the original cost of the holding as income. Are you perhaps suggesting that another selection would have generated a larger income?

5.11% is barely above what you might get on a FTSE 100 Tracker, but the logic to buying Vodafone presumed a much higher dividend yield.

As you are well aware the Vodafone Group PLC (VOD) holding is only one of 19 original purchases. The income due to be received during the first year of the portfolio as a whole will be 6.15%s of the original cost. If you believe that such a level of income could have been achieved by simply investing in a FTSE 100 Tracker, please provide a link to any FTSE 100 Tracker with a yield equal to or greater than 6.15%. I cannot find more than 4.00% but you have obviously researched this more than I.


Ian

[Alaric]

If you believe that such a level of income could have been achieved by simply investing in a FTSE 100 Tracker, please provide a link to any FTSE 100 Tracker with a yield equal to or greater than 6.15%.

The pertinent question is as to why an investor who reinvests isn't content with the 4.5% on a FTSE 100 Tracker and is looking for an extra 1.65%. It's more money for reinvestment, but so what, particularly if the capital performance is worse.

[Arborbridge]

If you believe that such a level of income could have been achieved by simply investing in a FTSE 100 Tracker, please provide a link to any FTSE 100 Tracker with a yield equal to or greater than 6.15%.

The pertinent question is as to why an investor who reinvests isn't content with the 4.5% on a FTSE 100 Tracker and is looking for an extra 1.65%. It's more money for reinvestment, but so what, particularly if the capital performance is worse.

I think you are beginning to question the whole basis of HYP, and as such the thrust of your comments are OT for this board. No point in carrying on in that direction, in my view. As regards your specific comment about the yield: yes there is very big point if you require that sort of yield to provide enough income for your living expenses. Of course, given enough capital, one could thrive on a 1% yield, but I guess not many HYPers are in that position.

I'm sure many people know you are not particularly interested in HYP rather than TR, but now your Freudian slip is showing

Arb.

[IanTHughes]

If you believe that such a level of income could have been achieved by simply investing in a FTSE 100 Tracker, please provide a link to any FTSE 100 Tracker with a yield equal to or greater than 6.15%.

The pertinent question is as to why an investor who reinvests isn't content with the 4.5% on a FTSE 100 Tracker and is looking for an extra 1.65%. It's more money for reinvestment, but so what, particularly if the capital performance is worse.

Please provide a link to that elusive FTSE 100 Tracker that has a yield of 4.5 %.

With regard to capital performance, even though that is not the primary aim of the HYP Strategy, in my view HTP wins too.

viewtopic.php?p=263959#p263959

Capital
This is irrelevant or very much secondary depending on your viewpoint.

The value is up 2.6% from last year to £159,682 and continues to massacre the FTSE100 over the 19 years, up 112.9 4% against an index up 17.4% and thus outperforming it by 81.3%. This is without reinvesting dividends.

In the last twelve months the FTSE100 has risen 4.4% whilst HYP1 is up 2.6%, thus slightly underperforming the index this year.

Of course if you have evidence to the contrary, which you surely must have to make such an assertion, please provide it.


Ian

[Alaric]

Please provide a link to that elusive FTSE 100 Tracker that has a yield of 4.5 %.

There no need to look any further than the dividenddata site.

https://www.dividenddata.co.uk/dividend ... et=ftse100

It's showing 4.42% at the moment, but it changes daily with movements in the FTSE.

[dspp]

Moderator Message:
I am getting a tad fed up with some of you being passive-aggressive with each other using alerts to the Mods as a proxy, and/or writing snarky posts calculated to push the limits in many ways.

This a general HYP-P point, not only in this thread. There are multiple posters involved.

If you cannot be nice to each it is extremely easy to put ALL of the relevant people into an enforced cooling off period.

Thank you in advance for your co-operation.

dspp

[IanTHughes]

Please provide a link to that elusive FTSE 100 Tracker that has a yield of 4.5 %.

There no need to look any further than the dividenddata site.

https://www.dividenddata.co.uk/dividend ... et=ftse100

It's showing 4.42% at the moment, but it changes daily with movements in the FTSE.

Last time I looked, www.DividendData.co.uk is a website, not a FTSE 100 Tracker


Ian

[Bouleversee]

FWIW the front page of The Times Business today carried a long article about the write off of Vodafone's Indian offshoot and the possibility of having to pay over $4bn in back-dated fees etc. as a result of the recent court ruling, having invested $20 bn. in the venture. However, despite the half year loss and the dividend cut, Tempus, elsewhere in Times Business, is recommending VOD as a buy, saying that Nick Read's cost-cutting efforts are beginning to bear fruit and debt should reduce by 3bn euro by the end of the financial year, which should hopefully settle the ding-dong on this board.
Tempus thinks that the separate listing for the mobile phone towers could enable Read to reduce debt or return cash to investors or both and that the company could be on the way up again after a couple of difficult years. Let's hope so because I am down around 40% on my 6623 holding and despite these write ups haven't the courage to add more.

[funduffer]

For me, VOD is hold, hold, hold.

.....but not buy, buy, buy because it is a cutter.

......nor top up, top up, top up for the same reason.

HYP - simples!

FD

[Gengulphus]

... The simple question I ask myself, is where does the dividend come from. ...

And the simple answer you should give yourself is that you cannot tell. As a highly simplified example to illustrate why you cannot tell, imagine a company that has £1b coming in from operations and another £1b coming in from increased borrowing, and that has £1b of capital expenditure and pays out £1b in dividends. Do the dividends come from operating cash flow and the capital expenditure from increased borrowing, or do the dividends come from increased borrowing and the capital expenditure from operating cash flow, or some mixture of those two?

Gengulphus

[roland500]

Reading Bouleversee's post reminds of the time ARUN SARIN first took Vodafone into India with great fanfare.

It was supposed to be a great investment opportunity.

I wonder how many billions have been lost to shareholders as a result of this decision - and it is not over yet.

India is another country on my no-go list.

[dspp]

There was a helpful piece of VOD Company News posted by idpickering re VOD at viewtopic.php?p=269450#p269450 which was also crossposted by him here.

A minor muddle resulted in it being removed from HYP-P as part of tidying up some non-sequiters that were best placed elsewhere, so I am calling attention to the news again by way of this replacement.

Please only discuss it in a HYP-P fashion here, iaw the norms of this board. Any other debate can take place on the VOD Company News board please.

regards, dspp (as a mod)