Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to SalvorHardin,Anonymous,johnhemming,Anonymous,Rhyd6, for Donating to support the site

HYP1 is 19

For discussion of the practicalities of setting up and operating income-portfolios which follow the HYP Group Guidelines. READ Guidelines before posting
Forum rules
Tight HYP discussions only please - OT please discuss in strategies
pyad
Lemon Slice
Posts: 325
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:17 am
Been thanked: 696 times

HYP1 is 19

#263959

Postby pyad » November 13th, 2019, 1:05 pm

Yet another record income year

Here is the data for the year ended 12 November 2019, the nineteenth year of this non-tinker portfolio.

..........................................Income......................Value
Anglo American              432.87              9,714
BA Tobacco 1,735.06 25,290
BT Group 875.03 11,195
Dixons Carphone 83.77 1,568
Glaxo 281.60 6,102
InterCon Hotels 379.76 19,851
Land Sex 309.49 6,033
Lloyds 250.82 4,586
Mitch & But 0.00 3,065
Persimmon 2,483.95 25,981
Pearson 169.29 6,203
RD Shell B 578.94 9,141
Rio Tinto 2,547.00 21,445
RSA 101.12 2,613
United Utilities 328.59 6,895

Total £ 10,557.29 159,682


Cost                                           75,000

Gain 84,682 112.9%


FTSE100 at start 6,274.8

Now 7,365.4

Gain 1,090.6 17.4%

HYP1 capital outperformance 81.3%



Income History

2001 3,451
2002 3,474
2003 3,197
2004 3,205
2005 3,546
2006 4,131
2007 4,452
2008 5,040
2009 3,187
2010 3,297
2011 3,843
2012 4,289
2013 5,828
2014 5,601
2015 6,093
2016 6,124
2017 7,327
2018 8,882
2019 10,557

Total to date £ 95,524



Events in year
InterContinental Hotels made a cash return of £882 with a consol down to 411 shares. The money was reinvested in Lloyds.

Income
This is the purpose of HYPs and the £10,557 for this year was another record by a long way, up 18.9% on last year and making it the third highest ever annual rise, crushing inflation. From year one, the increase is 205.9% over the 18 years.

Total income thus far is £95,524 over the 19 years, averaging £5,028 per year which is 6.70% pa on the £75,000 cost.

Rio Tinto was the single largest income contributor with 24.1% of total income, assisted by two large specials in the year. Second was Persimmon with 23.5%, both of these knocking BA Tobacco into third place on 16.4% after having been the record holder for a long time up to a couple years ago. At the other end, the smallest sums arose from Mitchells & Butlers with zero and Dixons Carphone 0.8%.


Capital

This is irrelevant or very much secondary depending on your viewpoint.

The value is up 2.6% from last year to £159,682 and continues to massacre the FTSE100 over the 19 years, up 112.9 4% against an index up 17.4% and thus outperforming it by 81.3%. This is without reinvesting dividends.

In the last twelve months the FTSE100 has risen 4.4% whilst HYP1 is up 2.6%, thus slightly underperforming the index this year.

Persimmon is now the larget holding at 16.2% of portfolio value with BA Tobacco a close second at 15.7%. Not far behind are Rio Tinto at 13.4% and InterContinental Hotels at 12.4%. Smallest holdings are Dixons Carphone at 1.0% and RSA at 1.6%.

moorfield
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1937
Joined: November 7th, 2016, 1:56 pm
Has thanked: 551 times
Been thanked: 541 times

Re: HYP1 is 19

#264014

Postby moorfield » November 13th, 2019, 4:16 pm

pyad wrote:
Income
This is the purpose of HYPs and the £10,557 for this year was another record by a long way, up 18.9% on last year and making it the third highest ever annual rise, crushing inflation. From year one, the increase is 205.9% over the 18 years.


Ok I’ll bite. Knee jerkers and finger twitchers take note, and that despite the MAB dividend cut.

Thank you pyad. Impressive, most impressive (to quote the man in the black suit).

funduffer
Lemon Slice
Posts: 465
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:11 pm
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 228 times

Re: HYP1 is 19

#264028

Postby funduffer » November 13th, 2019, 6:12 pm

I agree, very impressive.

I also have a non-payer in my HYP (Capita), and, although I don’t usually tinker, I was intending to ditch it.

Switching M&B to Marstons in HYP1 would boost income next year, and I would have thought ditching a non-payer was justified, even for a nominal non-tinker HYP.

I can understand though, that any tinkering of HYP1 after 19 years would fill the columns of this blog with essay upon essay of the pros and cons of tinkering, so pyad is probably wise to leave well alone!

FD

NB why did my autocorrect change ‘pyad’ to ‘payday’? Prophetic!

PinkDalek
Lemon Half
Posts: 5487
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:12 pm
Has thanked: 1390 times
Been thanked: 1552 times

Re: HYP1 is 19

#264036

Postby PinkDalek » November 13th, 2019, 6:59 pm

funduffer wrote:[I can understand though, that any tinkering of HYP1 after 19 years would fill the columns of this blog with essay upon essay of the pros and cons of tinkering, so pyad is probably wise to leave well alone!


Such as here:

HYP1 is 18
viewtopic.php?p=180276#p180276

Only 7 pages long. I haven't read it again but it was eventually locked.

Itsallaguess
Lemon Half
Posts: 5357
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:16 pm
Has thanked: 2140 times
Been thanked: 3915 times

Re: HYP1 is 19

#264041

Postby Itsallaguess » November 13th, 2019, 7:44 pm

Well done pyad - another year of rising income and a great on-going experiment for those interested in a completely hands-off approach to income-investment.

For anyone interested, I've started a separate thread looking at the income and capital concentration-risk using the HYP1 '19th birthday' data -

https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=20386

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Gengulphus
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3280
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:17 am
Been thanked: 1787 times

Re: HYP1 is 19

#264094

Postby Gengulphus » November 14th, 2019, 2:09 am

funduffer wrote:Switching M&B to Marstons in HYP1 would boost income next year, and I would have thought ditching a non-payer was justified, even for a nominal non-tinker HYP.

Yes, it's quite easy to justify selling a non-payer from a HYP - but if one actually does it, the HYP becomes a tinkering HYP and so is no longer a non-tinkering HYP!

Gengulphus

Arborbridge
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4902
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:33 am
Has thanked: 1093 times
Been thanked: 1757 times

Re: HYP1 is 19

#264113

Postby Arborbridge » November 14th, 2019, 7:20 am

funduffer wrote:I agree, very impressive.

I can understand though, that any tinkering of HYP1 after 19 years would fill the columns of this blog with essay upon essay of the pros and cons of tinkering, so pyad is probably wise to leave well alone!



We don't need essay after essay. HYP1 was maintained as a non-tinkering portfolio in order to see what would happen. There's simply no point in corrupting the experiment by tinkering. End of.

Arb.

ayshfm1
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 141
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 9:43 am
Been thanked: 52 times

Re: HYP1 is 19

#264246

Postby ayshfm1 » November 14th, 2019, 1:30 pm

Scary concentration now
A pretty wild ride if you had to live off the income, makes a strong case for having a cash reserve to smooth over the bumps

But overall impressive.

1nvest
Lemon Slice
Posts: 393
Joined: May 31st, 2019, 7:55 pm
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 102 times

Re: HYP1 is 19

#275295

Postby 1nvest » January 5th, 2020, 1:52 pm

Compare HYP to the FTSE 250 total return index with the exact same amount of capital withdrawals as HYP (same amount of income produced), and the final capital value is within single digits (FTSE250 produced 9.4% more capital value).

Lootman
Lemon Half
Posts: 7564
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 1272 times

Re: HYP1 is 19

#275337

Postby Lootman » January 5th, 2020, 5:56 pm

1nvest wrote:Compare HYP to the FTSE 250 total return index with the exact same amount of capital withdrawals as HYP (same amount of income produced), and the final capital value is within single digits (FTSE250 produced 9.4% more capital value).

Or do a similar comparison with the an S&P 500 index fund (up 33% in 2019, plus 2% in dividends) or a global tracker fund (up 26% in 2019 and 2% in dividends).

There is more than one way to take "income".
Moderator Message:
HYP as defined by this board's guidelines is predominately a UK based strategy (set) so the comparisons you suggest are inapplicable. If you wish to discuss the validity of the HYP strategy, as defined here, please use the High Yield Shares & Strategies - general board. Thanks - Chris
Last edited by csearle on January 5th, 2020, 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Off-topic for the UK based HYP

1nvest
Lemon Slice
Posts: 393
Joined: May 31st, 2019, 7:55 pm
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 102 times

Re: HYP1 is 19

#275603

Postby 1nvest » January 6th, 2020, 9:12 pm

@lootman. I was referring to comparison from day zero (Nov 2000).

idpickering
Lemon Half
Posts: 5864
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 5:04 pm
Has thanked: 1020 times
Been thanked: 2137 times

Re: HYP1 is 19

#321238

Postby idpickering » June 25th, 2020, 3:47 am

Thanks for the update Stephen. Very impressive, and a great example that less tinkering is more. A lesson I shall strive to abide by going forward. I’ve been to fickle in the past, I admit, whilst trying to better my returns. There is no need to overthink things, and HYP1 is evidence of that. It is good that I realise my own failings though, something I’m working on.

Ian.

csearle
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2374
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 2:24 pm
Has thanked: 1425 times
Been thanked: 570 times

Re: HYP1 is 19

#321247

Postby csearle » June 25th, 2020, 6:59 am

Moderator Message:
Off topic post about art deleted. - Chris

Arborbridge
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4902
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:33 am
Has thanked: 1093 times
Been thanked: 1757 times

Re: HYP1 is 19

#321250

Postby Arborbridge » June 25th, 2020, 7:11 am

Another interesting year in the demonstration of a non-tinkering HYP. The only one we have, and a valuable experiment which I hope will be maintained for the foreseeable.

I notice the huge imbalance with BATs being top dog has now reduced a little. This natural evolution goes a little way to answering one criticism about not tinkering. This experiment does prove that for those who want to remain "hands off" the pyad formulation does work rather well. We don't know from this that it would work at all epochs, but I am of the opinion that it probably would, based on the HYP1 experiement - although one could not possibly know one way or the other without an infinite number of HYP start dates - a rather difficult experiment to arrange.

Finally, a question: does anyone have an understanding about why the income increased so much in the final year? I mention this because as I remember it, this was well above what most of our HYPs experienced. Perhaps there was a particular coincidence of special which favoured HYP1 and not others?

Anyhow, it's cheery to see our old friend HYP1 continuing "to do the business" it was designed for.

Arb.

MrFoolish
Lemon Pip
Posts: 90
Joined: March 22nd, 2020, 7:27 pm
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 41 times

Re: HYP1 is 19

#321264

Postby MrFoolish » June 25th, 2020, 7:58 am

I'm not seeing the update folk are referring to.

Arborbridge
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4902
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:33 am
Has thanked: 1093 times
Been thanked: 1757 times

Re: HYP1 is 19

#321265

Postby Arborbridge » June 25th, 2020, 8:08 am

MrFoolish wrote:I'm not seeing the update folk are referring to.


Oddly enough, neither am I!

My post was based entirely on a misunderstanding in which I thought there was a new posted review for HYP1.
Now I've searched and found what I must have been reading, I see it was dated November 2019. Why this popped up for my attention, I'm not sure. As far as I can tell now, there is no update after that.

SuperCally
Posts: 43
Joined: August 2nd, 2017, 7:31 am
Has thanked: 549 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Re: HYP1 is 19

#321267

Postby SuperCally » June 25th, 2020, 8:12 am

It’s not just me then. I suspect the post(s) deleted may have put today’s surviving posts into some sort of context?

Arborbridge
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4902
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:33 am
Has thanked: 1093 times
Been thanked: 1757 times

Re: HYP1 is 19

#321282

Postby Arborbridge » June 25th, 2020, 9:02 am

SuperCally wrote:It’s not just me then. I suspect the post(s) deleted may have put today’s surviving posts into some sort of context?


Yes, I think the deleted post probably kicked it off!

Gengulphus
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3280
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:17 am
Been thanked: 1787 times

Re: HYP1 is 19

#321284

Postby Gengulphus » June 25th, 2020, 9:10 am

SuperCally wrote:It’s not just me then. I suspect the post(s) deleted may have put today’s surviving posts into some sort of context?

I saw the post that was deleted, which was about using another, completely different type of strategy alongside HYP - it wasn't even a share investment strategy and certainly couldn't be described as even "HYPish"! In short, thoroughly in violation of the guideline "For the avoidance of doubt, the practicalities of taking a HYP approach DO NOT include ... discussions of other types of approaches." and so off-topic for this board. It didn't provide any context for the content of today's surviving posts - it's just that the fact that it was posted at all has resuscitated this 7-month-old thread, causing it to appear in "New posts", come up to the tops of lists of bookmarked threads, etc, and so caused the thread to pop up for people's attention!

Gengulphus

monabri
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4196
Joined: January 7th, 2017, 9:56 am
Has thanked: 502 times
Been thanked: 1305 times

Re: HYP1 is 19

#321288

Postby monabri » June 25th, 2020, 9:25 am

In fairness to the deleted post, whilst strategy was discussed, the poster tried to make the post relevant to HYP1 and discussed rebalancing thereof. Perhaps the post should have been posted here, see link, but then HYPers might not read a post in the Passive Investing board (the irony being lost in translation ;) ).

viewtopic.php?p=317563#p317563


Return to “HYP Practical (See Group Guidelines)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alaric, Arborbridge, daveh, Dinick, monabri, Wasron and 8 guests