Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

Dividend return

For discussion of the practicalities of setting up and operating income-portfolios which follow the HYP Group Guidelines. READ Guidelines before posting
Forum rules
Tight HYP discussions only please - OT please discuss in strategies
Bena48
Posts: 48
Joined: August 13th, 2017, 5:02 pm
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Dividend return

#398404

Postby Bena48 » March 23rd, 2021, 7:51 pm

My dividends for my HYP were down 35% during the last financial year.
Curious as to how others fared.

Darka
Lemon Slice
Posts: 773
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 2:18 pm
Has thanked: 1819 times
Been thanked: 704 times

Re: Dividend return

#398440

Postby Darka » March 23rd, 2021, 9:07 pm

More by luck than any skill, I transferred in a pension from an old provider to my SIPP (couple of days before the crash) and bought a lot of shares and unmentionables (mostly bought during the crash itself).

I also kept up with my regular monthly purchases throughout the whole year.

The share prices crashed heavily of course at the time (since recovered), but my dividends held and they ended up 8% higher by the end of the year.
Otherwise I probably would have been in a similar position to everyone else (apart from the unmentionables which all held or increased).

In the future I will be building a small war chest for similar occasions.

csearle
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4764
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 2:24 pm
Has thanked: 4813 times
Been thanked: 2083 times

Re: Dividend return

#398452

Postby csearle » March 23rd, 2021, 9:28 pm

Darka wrote:...and bought a lot of shares and unmentionables (mostly bought during the crash itself)...
Go on mention them (in passing so to speak). I feel sure that such a mention, as an aside, would be ok. Chris

Arborbridge
The full Lemon
Posts: 10369
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:33 am
Has thanked: 3601 times
Been thanked: 5227 times

Re: Dividend return

#398457

Postby Arborbridge » March 23rd, 2021, 9:34 pm

Bena48 wrote:My dividends for my HYP were down 35% during the last financial year.
Curious as to how others fared.


When you say the last financial year, which one do you mean? This one hasn't ended yet, so do you mean to April 5th 2020 compared with to April 5th 2019?

Or something else?

Arb.

Darka
Lemon Slice
Posts: 773
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 2:18 pm
Has thanked: 1819 times
Been thanked: 704 times

Re: Dividend return

#398465

Postby Darka » March 23rd, 2021, 9:58 pm

csearle wrote:Go on mention them (in passing so to speak). I feel sure that such a mention, as an aside, would be ok. Chris


Thanks Chris, the shares I topped up on were typical HYP ones (these I kept):

BAE Systems (BA)
Legal & General (LGEN)
Royal Dutch Shell (RDSB)
BHP Group (BHP)
Rio Tinto (RTO)
Standard Life (SLA) - Just cut their dividend, still hold - no idea why.... should never have bought them but have held for years now.

and these, which I subsequently sold immediately that they suspended their dividends and reinvested in the better quality unmentionables and some of the shares listed above.

G4S (GFS)
British Land (BLND)
Lloyds Bank (LLOY)
HSBC (HSBA)

and the unmentionables themselves (tickers only as mentioned in passing)

CTY
MRCH
MYI
HFEL
BRNA
NAIT
SMT
SSON
FCIT
HSL

A couple of points - I record by calendar year, not financial year and I don't unitise.

The only thing I track is; are my dividend totals and portfolio value higher than the previous year and do my dividends provide enough money to cover all expenses, in both cases the answer is yes with some safety margin.

I will continue to add new money when I can for at least the first few years to counter any sequence of return risk, and to inflation proof my income during retirement.

Of course, I'm fully aware that the transferred pension didn't provide any dividends prior to the transfer, and that without it I would be down along with everyone else.

So yes my portfolio lost dividend income during the pandemic, but selling the junk and reinvesting both the proceeds, the transfer and ongoing dividends all helped to recover those loses so that I ended up with a full recovery by year end (8% gain dividends) and (3% gain portfolio).

I didn't try to time the market, but shifted to what I thought was better quality investments which I felt would recover more quickly.

Since January of course the recovery is even better as I hope it is for everyone, even so I don't want another year like last year for some time.

At the end of the day, I care about my income level and less about how I achieve it or performance as such, if my dividends rise each year and they have significantly from 10 years ago, then I'm happy.

Now that I've built up sufficient income I'm building some growth, which is going rather well I must admit - but I'm very glad that I started with income and focused on that - at the end of the day, it's what will pay my bills very soon.

At the moment, I'm building up cash buffers for retiring at the end of September so will be reinvesting much less this year and going forwards.

regards,
Darka

Darka
Lemon Slice
Posts: 773
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 2:18 pm
Has thanked: 1819 times
Been thanked: 704 times

Re: Dividend return

#398472

Postby Darka » March 23rd, 2021, 10:08 pm

Arborbridge wrote:
Bena48 wrote:My dividends for my HYP were down 35% during the last financial year.
Curious as to how others fared.


When you say the last financial year, which one do you mean? This one hasn't ended yet, so do you mean to April 5th 2020 compared with to April 5th 2019?

Or something else?

Arb.


Calendar year?

Gengulphus
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4255
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:17 am
Been thanked: 2628 times

Re: Dividend return

#398491

Postby Gengulphus » March 23rd, 2021, 10:50 pm

Darka wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:
Bena48 wrote:My dividends for my HYP were down 35% during the last financial year.
Curious as to how others fared.

When you say the last financial year, which one do you mean? This one hasn't ended yet, so do you mean to April 5th 2020 compared with to April 5th 2019?

Or something else?

Calendar year?

My guess would be the tax year to April 5th 2021. We haven't completed it yet, agreed, but with just two weeks to go, it seems highly likely that we know exactly what dividends are in the pipeline for those two weeks. Not with absolute certainty, of course, but any extra dividends declared now are unlikely to be paid before April 6th. Of course, already-declared dividends that are scheduled to be paid before April 6th could end up being cancelled, as we saw a year ago, but it generally takes a rapidly-worsening situation to make companies change their minds that soon after declaring a dividend. And (touch wood!) we don't appear to be in a rapidly-worsening situation at the moment...

If I'm right about that, what I think will be interesting about dividend comparisons in this thread is that we'll be seeing the change from dividends which were almost entirely unaffected by the pandemic to dividends a year later which have been almost entirely affected by it. I.e. this year-on-year dividend comparison will be the one in which we see the full impact of the pandemic, whereas (for instance) the comparisons some people did a few months ago between the calendar years 2019 and 2020 will have ended up comparing about 3 months of pre-pandemic dividends plus about 9 months of post-pandemic dividends in 2020 with 12 months of pre-pandemic dividends in 2019, so will only have seen very roughly 75% of the impact of the pandemic.

Gengulphus

tjh290633
Lemon Half
Posts: 8208
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:20 am
Has thanked: 913 times
Been thanked: 4096 times

Re: Dividend return

#398499

Postby tjh290633 » March 23rd, 2021, 11:22 pm

Bena48 wrote:My dividends for my HYP were down 35% during the last financial year.
Curious as to how others fared.

Mine were down 18% compared with 2019-20. Most of the companies which did not pay dividends have resumed, but not always at the same level. I have 4 yet to resume:

BT.A
CPG
MARS
MKS

BT said in their half-year report:
"The growth in EBITDA underpins the planned reinstatement of our dividend next year whilst ensuring that we can continue to drive value-creating investments in our networks and products."

MKS said in theirs:
We did not pay a final dividend for 2019/20 and the board has announced the decision not to pay a dividend for the 2020/21 financial year.

CPG said:
As a result of the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, in April 2020, the Board decided not to recommend an interim or final dividend. The Board understands the importance of the dividend to our shareholders and will keep future dividends under review and will restart payments when it is appropriate to do so.

MARS said in their final report:
As part of our response to the COVID-19 crisis we suspended dividend payments and a decision has not yet been made regarding the timing of reinstatement of dividends. Our dividend policy moving forwards will be based on cash cover, rather than on historical earnings cover, and it is likely that any dividends paid should be covered by underlying cash flow after principal repayments of securitised bonds.

Consequently I expect to see a recovery in the level of dividends to some extent in 2021-22.

TJH

Arborbridge
The full Lemon
Posts: 10369
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:33 am
Has thanked: 3601 times
Been thanked: 5227 times

Re: Dividend return

#398533

Postby Arborbridge » March 24th, 2021, 7:23 am

Gengulphus wrote:
Darka wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:When you say the last financial year, which one do you mean? This one hasn't ended yet, so do you mean to April 5th 2020 compared with to April 5th 2019?

Or something else?

Calendar year?

My guess would be the tax year to April 5th 2021.

Gengulphus


That was my first thought also but vetoed it. I'm guilty of being too robotic and taking the words at face value in that "tax year hasn't ended, therefore that can't been the answer".
Yes, I expect it's this year just ending.

As it happens, I ignore tax years (except for my return!) and I'll check my situation at the end of March, the first quarter, calendar.

Arb.

Bena48
Posts: 48
Joined: August 13th, 2017, 5:02 pm
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Dividend return

#398546

Postby Bena48 » March 24th, 2021, 8:15 am

Sorry for slow response. Yes , tax year. I realise there is still sometime to go for the period to be completed.

minerjoe
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 111
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 10:30 am
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: Dividend return

#398572

Postby minerjoe » March 24th, 2021, 9:41 am

When everything comes in for the (financial) year end, my gross dividends is down 10% YoY

My dividends per unit have fallen much more at around 22% due to a number of companies not paying and me adding money into my ISA and "buying" more units.

GoSeigen
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4350
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 11:14 pm
Has thanked: 1590 times
Been thanked: 1579 times

Re: Dividend return

#398583

Postby GoSeigen » March 24th, 2021, 10:11 am

My dividend payers (mostly banks, retail and miners) have suffered a significant fall in income this year.

OTOH my fixed income has not suffered any falls at all. Funny that! Also, the largest fixed income position is showing almost 100% capital gain YOY.


Now I thought we were investing in HY dividend payers because:

1. Dividends are less volatile than capital.
2. Income matters more than capital and HY stocks pay a higher income.
3. Dividends keep up with inflation but fixed interest does not.

Hmm... Okay it's only one year but still...

GS

88V8
Lemon Half
Posts: 5769
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:22 am
Has thanked: 4098 times
Been thanked: 2560 times

Re: Dividend return

#398598

Postby 88V8 » March 24th, 2021, 10:59 am

A week to go until my year end. I expect to be even stevens.

A meaningless metric, as I have bought and sold, I include Fixed Interest and ITs, and I have not unitised.
Oh, and I added new money at irregular intervals.

It will be interesting to hear from those who have the diligence to unitise their portfolios.

V8

funduffer
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1328
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:11 pm
Has thanked: 122 times
Been thanked: 831 times

Re: Dividend return

#398684

Postby funduffer » March 24th, 2021, 4:49 pm

Bena48 wrote:My dividends for my HYP were down 35% during the last financial year.
Curious as to how others fared.


Mine are down 36.7% for FY 2020-21 (I know what remaining dividends I will receive by end of this tax year).

I unitise, and income per unit this FY is down 46%, but this is largely due to dividend drag from some substantial purchases in the last month.

FD

Steveam
Lemon Slice
Posts: 974
Joined: March 18th, 2017, 10:22 pm
Has thanked: 1745 times
Been thanked: 534 times

Re: Dividend return

#398692

Postby Steveam » March 24th, 2021, 5:47 pm

HYP(ish) portfolio income down 33%
All portfolios (HYP+ITs+ETFs) income down 26%

And expenditure down 35%!!!

Best wishes,

Steve

Arborbridge
The full Lemon
Posts: 10369
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:33 am
Has thanked: 3601 times
Been thanked: 5227 times

Re: Dividend return

#398705

Postby Arborbridge » March 24th, 2021, 6:44 pm

GoSeigen wrote:My dividend payers (mostly banks, retail and miners) have suffered a significant fall in income this year.

OTOH my fixed income has not suffered any falls at all. Funny that! Also, the largest fixed income position is showing almost 100% capital gain YOY.


Now I thought we were investing in HY dividend payers because:

1. Dividends are less volatile than capital.
2. Income matters more than capital and HY stocks pay a higher income.
3. Dividends keep up with inflation but fixed interest does not.

Hmm... Okay it's only one year but still...

GS


One year ... that is the problem. Maybe you have numbers going back further, but presumably one would want considerably more data before changing any investment plans.

Arb.

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18681
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 628 times
Been thanked: 6563 times

Re: Dividend return

#398706

Postby Lootman » March 24th, 2021, 6:51 pm

Arborbridge wrote:
GoSeigen wrote:My dividend payers (mostly banks, retail and miners) have suffered a significant fall in income this year.

OTOH my fixed income has not suffered any falls at all. Funny that! Also, the largest fixed income position is showing almost 100% capital gain YOY.

Now I thought we were investing in HY dividend payers because:

1. Dividends are less volatile than capital.
2. Income matters more than capital and HY stocks pay a higher income.
3. Dividends keep up with inflation but fixed interest does not.

Hmm... Okay it's only one year but still...

One year ... that is the problem. Maybe you have numbers going back further, but presumably one would want considerably more data before changing any investment plans.

And bear in mind that we are coming off the blow-off top of a 40 year bull market in bonds. Bonds are in bubble territory with many government issues on negative yields to maturity. So the "safe" eye-popping returns that some might claim are to be taken with a pinch of salt, at least looking forward. Whilst the easy money policies that central banks are hooked on will juice inflation, which is a killer for bonds.

csearle
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4764
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 2:24 pm
Has thanked: 4813 times
Been thanked: 2083 times

Re: Dividend return

#398710

Postby csearle » March 24th, 2021, 7:11 pm

Moderator Message:
Team, the OP was
My dividends for my HYP were down 35% during the last financial year.
Curious as to how others fared.
Please can we stick with that rather than discussing the merits of the HYP set of strategies itself, which is off-topic. Thanks - Chris

idpickering
The full Lemon
Posts: 11276
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 5:04 pm
Has thanked: 2468 times
Been thanked: 5763 times

Re: Dividend return

#398788

Postby idpickering » March 25th, 2021, 7:12 am

csearle wrote:
Moderator Message:
Team, the OP was
My dividends for my HYP were down 35% during the last financial year.
Curious as to how others fared.
Please can we stick with that rather than discussing the merits of the HYP set of strategies itself, which is off-topic. Thanks - Chris



Well said Chris.

In answer to the OP, my dividends paid to me last year, Jan - Dec, were down 32.6% on what I received the year before that.

Ian.

GrahamPlatt
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2059
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:40 am
Has thanked: 1032 times
Been thanked: 823 times

Re: Dividend return

#398827

Postby GrahamPlatt » March 25th, 2021, 9:45 am

I’m in the miner100 camp in that I don’t unitise etc, but just keep a weather-eye on the figures.
So, March-March, I’ve introduce an extra 50% of capital (cf starting position).
Overall, dividends are now flat with last year, but capital’s up a smidgin.
I hope that this bodes well for future dividends


Return to “HYP Practical (See Group Guidelines)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests