Is Lloyds Banking Group plc a good dividend stock?

[idpickering]

"Lloyds Banking Group‘s (LSE: LLOY) earnings outlook has dimmed over the past year, but here’s why investors shouldn’t overlook the bank’s dividend potential."

http://www.fool.co.uk/investing/2017/02 ... end-stock/

[Raptor]

Ian,

Usually I read the TMF reports and wonder why they do it, but this is quite good. The only point they seem to have missed is the Government stake in the company. Mind you I already hold and topped up last year. Not sure it would be a "buy" for a HYP if not already owned as I still think we need to wait to the government is totally out of the picture and we have a longer history of dividends to go on.

But as a top-up, possible......

Raptor.

[richfool]

There's at least one other very recent thread about TMF articles on Lloyds bank (all from the same OP). Wouldn't it be better to merge them together. Or at least this one and the first one below:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3050&p=30292#p30292

And a third one if you count the thread on TMF article on Shell and Lloyds:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3037

[idpickering]

There's at least one other very recent thread about TMF articles on Lloyds bank (all from the same OP). Wouldn't it be better to merge them together. Or at least this one and the first one below:

http://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.ph ... 292#p30292

And a third one if you count the thread on TMF article on Shell and Lloyds:

http://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3037

These were all put up on different dates. What harm does it do as it is? Sometimes wonder why I bother.

[richfool]

There's at least one other very recent thread about TMF articles on Lloyds bank (all from the same OP). Wouldn't it be better to merge them together. Or at least this one and the first one below:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3050&p=30292#p30292

And a third one if you count the thread on TMF article on Shell and Lloyds:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3037

These were all put up on different dates. What harm does it do as it is? Sometimes wonder why I bother.

Ian, It seemed logical to me. If the posts were in the one thread they would be considerably easier to follow, without needing to jump from one thread to another. It keeps all the relevant information in one place.

One doesn't start a new thread each time one posts a reply, so why start a new thread with a continuation of the same topic/subject.

[baldchap]

Lloyds dividend doesn't seem too bad. However, there are plenty of companies with better yields, and let us not forget that in reality this company probably should have gone under several years back.

Some may think I am being irrational, but I would rather not invest in in a bank that was so badly run that it had to be bailed out by the Government.
I am not saying HSBC, Barclays and Standard Chartered are paragons of virtue, but they survived the crisis without external aid which has to say something about management.

You could of course argue that now the Government is so heavily involved they will never be allowed to fail, and is therefore a safe investment.
What do I know?

Full disclosure. I hold HSBA, and have held STAN in the past, but have never held BARC , LLOY, RBS.

[Arborbridge]

Not sure it would be a "buy" for a HYP if not already owned

Raptor, this is a point on which I often become personally confused

Logically, if it isn't good enough to buy afresh, why would it be good enough to top up? Having said that, I do it myself, quite often but perhaps I shouldn't! I've just vetoed VOD, for example, because its cover is low: in some other month, I might relent and top-up.

I believe Pyad's general guidance on top ups was to exclude them if they infringe whatever your starting safety factors are.


Arb.

[kempiejon]

I've been considering Lloyds again recently, are they due to start a significant price recovery, does the yield compensate nicely for holding and will it keep such a rate of increase? I'm not sold they're the best place for my time and cash, I don't think they'd cut it as a HYP pick, not in my portfolio in any case. In fact my historic HYP holding sits there untouched since the rights and open offer in 2009. Lloyds was one of my earliest HYP picks in 2004 when it was seen as an easy choice for any income portfolio, high yield, great history and other safety factors - or so I thought. It's nice to have seen the return to rising dividends and long may it continue.

Back when the price was sub 50p in 2011/12/13 I made a few short term and successful trades doubling my money but purely as a trading strategy - I also bought the prefs at 8-10% yields, all very unHYP so irrelevant for this board.

My banking pick these days is HSBC(A) banking is only a couple of percent in my total HYP but lump that with all the other finance sectors it comes towards the top of my limits. I'm looking at other industries for my top ups in HYP land.

[kempiejon]

Logically, if it isn't good enough to buy afresh, why would it be good enough to top up? Having said that, I do it myself, quite often but perhaps I shouldn't! I've just vetoed VOD, for example, because its cover is low: in some other month, I might relent and top-up.

Arb, that rings true, I have some uninvested dividends in the ISA, I was thinking about rolling the dividends into VOD, I don't rate it as a HYP pick today so cancelled that thought - incidentally the money goes into British Land. By that same token as I said in my previous post Lloyds isn't a HYP pick for me.

[AleisterCrowley]

Logically, if you wouldn't buy it today - why hold it ?
Two possible reasons;
-Frictional costs of selling out , and buying another stock
-Reduced diversification
I'm guilty of holding on to stuff I should really dump (although I don't run a pure HYP)
There is plenty of evidence that regular trading reduces returns, although I suspect this is down to people dumping losers and hopping on the latest bandwagon.

[kempiejon]

Logically, if you wouldn't buy it today - why hold it ?
Two possible reasons;
-Frictional costs of selling out , and buying another stock
-Reduced diversification...

A couple of my holdings are of such trivial amounts it hardly seems worth paying the trading fee to tidy the portfolio, I caught the falling RBS knife and have lost over 90% of my invested cash. I keep the dismal holding also to remind me not to get over excited.

As to the question not whether to hold but whether to top up if you'd not buy today I don't think I top up if I wouldn't buy.

[Arborbridge]

incidentally the money goes into British Land.

Kempiejon: I doubt you will go far wrong with B Land.

Logically, if you wouldn't buy it today - why hold it ?

Aleister, I guess the reason for some of would be that we do not sell on a whim. The circumstances for selling out are quite rigorous depending on how each person runs his HYP. Originally it was "never sell" I believe, and just depend on natural trading to do the job. So something based around that plus a few later additions would constitute the reason not to sell, even if the share is no longer a buy.

[geoff1309]

Well for whats it's worth i have a large holding in my HYP of LLoyds pref. shares which have been paying an average 6.4% as I’m only interested in income am more than happy!
Geoff 1309

[MDW1954]

There's at least one other very recent thread about TMF articles on Lloyds bank (all from the same OP). Wouldn't it be better to merge them together. Or at least this one and the first one below:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3050&p=30292#p30292

And a third one if you count the thread on TMF article on Shell and Lloyds:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3037

Richfool,

You have made this suggestion to the moderation team, of whom I am one. Quite apart from the fact that I have no idea how to do what you suggest, I think a little give and take may be called for. Ian presumably thinks that new information deserves a new post, a view with which I sympathise. You presumably find the duplication and clutter irritating. Shall we all just get on with growing our HYPs?

[Breelander]

I am not saying HSBC, Barclays and Standard Chartered are paragons of virtue, but they survived the crisis without external aid which has to say something about management.

Short memory - Barclays had external aid, just not from our Government...

25 Jun 2008
The Gulf state of Qatar has agreed to invest more than £2bn in Barclays as the British high street bank calls on petrodollars to help strengthen its balance sheet in the midst of the credit crisis.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... 4.5bn.html

"...says something about management..."
err... yes...

29 Aug 2012
The Serious Fraud office has launched an investigation into Barclays 2008 fundraising, amid concerns at some of the fees paid by the bank in connection with the deal.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... Qatar.html

HSBC had a Rights Issue, does that count as an 'external' source?

HSBC in £12.5bn fund-raising plan...
...HSBC has issued the cash call, which is the biggest to date seen in Britain, to both shore up its balance sheet and to increase its global market share. It is offering just over 5 billion shares at 254 pence each - a price that is 48% lower than Friday's close of 491.25p.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7918175.stm

[Raptor]

Not sure it would be a "buy" for a HYP if not already owned

Raptor, this is a point on which I often become personally confused

Logically, if it isn't good enough to buy afresh, why would it be good enough to top up? Having said that, I do it myself, quite often but perhaps I shouldn't! I've just vetoed VOD, for example, because its cover is low: in some other month, I might relent and top-up.

I believe Pyad's general guidance on top ups was to exclude them if they infringe whatever your starting safety factors are.


Arb.

I "used" to do that when I was in the building phase, but now that I am not looking to expand my "new" shares I tend to be more mechanical using HYPTUSS and other criteria based on value, income, yield. dividend history is still relevant but it is the "cutters" that are of more interest and feel that lloyd's dividend going forward is/was worth the punt. I too have VOD vetoed for same reason as you.

As to PYAD, IMO, the world has moved on since then and we all have our own criteria that we feel comfortable with. However, his ideas and thoughts have guided me well along the way and at the beginning his "mantra" was right for me..... 11 years on and older and possibly wiser.

Raptor.

[idpickering]

There's at least one other very recent thread about TMF articles on Lloyds bank (all from the same OP). Wouldn't it be better to merge them together. Or at least this one and the first one below:

http://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.ph ... 292#p30292

And a third one if you count the thread on TMF article on Shell and Lloyds:

http://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3037

Richfool,

You have made this suggestion to the moderation team, of whom I am one. Quite apart from the fact that I have no idea how to do what you suggest, I think a little give and take may be called for. Ian presumably thinks that new information deserves a new post, a view with which I sympathise. You presumably find the duplication and clutter irritating. Shall we all just get on with growing our HYPs?

Thank you MDW1954. You are correct as to my reasoning. It's starting to feel like TMF discussion boards around here, which is sad.

Ian.

[kempiejon]

incidentally the money goes into British Land.

kempiejon: I doubt you will go far wrong with B Land.

Arborbridge, thanks for the vote of confidence, let's see; I do know I don't know, and won't know until it's too late.

[richfool]

MDW1954 & Ian, No worries. Up to you, as they say. It just seemed logical to have everything in the one place.

This thread seems to be accumulating more relevant posts now.

(As an aside- I used to moderate on another forum, - the same type as this one, - and it is quite straightforward to merge topics or move posts between threads. That said I'm not looking for a job. I lost enough hair moderating the other one!
Though, if you need the odd topic merging or moving in the future, let me know.).

A couple of points that occured to me re Lloyds:
- they are a domestically focused bank. No International exposure or earnings.
- their fortunes must be fairly dependent on the UK housing market, as a lot of their business comes from mortgage lending & the housing market hasn't boomed again yet.
- they should make more profit when interest rates rise, which isn't yet, but shouldn't be too far away.

Back in June, I misjudged the outcome of the Brexit referendum and bought Lloyds anticipating a No vote. The Yes vote, resulted in domestically focused Lloyds (SP) falling back, leaving me in negative territory for some time, but my holding is back in positive territory now, and I'm awaiting some meaningful dividends. (I'm not a purest HYP'er).

- I recollect Mark Carney saying something about (him) not expecting banks to increase their dividends, as a result of some announcement he made late last year, - possibly relaxing some regulatory requirement. I can't recollect the details of that.

Overall I have mixed views on the outlook for Lloyds. Hence my interest in the threads about Lloyds.

[MDW1954]

MDW1954 & Ian, No worries. Up to you, as they say. It just seemed logical to have everything in the one place.

Thanks, Richfool. It is convenient, but not always expedient. Your tolerance is appreciated. (And your points about the tribulations of moderation noted!)

MDW1954