Lloyds Banking Group (LLOY) - Final Results.

[tjh290633]

I've just been looking through my file on LLOY.

First bought in 1988 at 322p, then 1995 merged with TSB and Lloyds at 847p became TSB at 330p, with a 270% increase in the number of shares. In 1997 I trimmed back because they were very overweight at 531p. Added more on 4 occasions until the takeover of Halifax Bank of Scotland in 2009. There was a scrip dividend in May 2009 at 100.7p, then an open offer at 38.4p and a rights issue at 37p, both of which I took up. By now I had 10.8 times as many shares as I had in 1997. Since then I have added more in 2016 at 54p, in 2019 at 63p and in 2020 at 43.8p. I have a note that the price fell to 26p when they did not announce a dividend for Q2 in 2020. Since then I added in 2022 at 48.7p and again in No. 2023 at 42.3p. My average cost is now 56.4p, and I am about 28% below cost overall.

I now have over 40 times as many shares as I did in 1997. It just needs a modest recovery and meanswhile I am enjoying the dividends. My IRR since 1988 is 16.5%.

TJH

[ADrunkenMarcus]

I've just been looking through my file on LLOY.

First bought in 1988 at 322p, then 1995 merged with TSB and Lloyds at 847p became TSB at 330p, with a 270% increase in the number of shares. In 1997 I trimmed back because they were very overweight at 531p. Added more on 4 occasions until the takeover of Halifax Bank of Scotland in 2009. There was a scrip dividend in May 2009 at 100.7p, then an open offer at 38.4p and a rights issue at 37p, both of which I took up. By now I had 10.8 times as many shares as I had in 1997. Since then I have added more in 2016 at 54p, in 2019 at 63p and in 2020 at 43.8p. I have a note that the price fell to 26p when they did not announce a dividend for Q2 in 2020. Since then I added in 2022 at 48.7p and again in No. 2023 at 42.3p. My average cost is now 56.4p, and I am about 28% below cost overall.

I now have over 40 times as many shares as I did in 1997. It just needs a modest recovery and meanswhile I am enjoying the dividends. My IRR since 1988 is 16.5%.[added emphasis]

TJH

Thanks for sharing your detailed records. That is actually a very strong IRR and much higher than I would have expected. You know, someone buying in 2020 would have a pretty decent dividend yield on cost. Lloyds today does not have huge growth potential but is paying a decent dividend.

Best wishes


Mark.

[monabri]

I've just been looking through my file on LLOY.

First bought in 1988 at 322p, then 1995 merged with TSB and Lloyds at 847p became TSB at 330p, with a 270% increase in the number of shares. In 1997 I trimmed back because they were very overweight at 531p. Added more on 4 occasions until the takeover of Halifax Bank of Scotland in 2009. There was a scrip dividend in May 2009 at 100.7p, then an open offer at 38.4p and a rights issue at 37p, both of which I took up. By now I had 10.8 times as many shares as I had in 1997. Since then I have added more in 2016 at 54p, in 2019 at 63p and in 2020 at 43.8p. I have a note that the price fell to 26p when they did not announce a dividend for Q2 in 2020. Since then I added in 2022 at 48.7p and again in No. 2023 at 42.3p. My average cost is now 56.4p, and I am about 28% below cost overall.

I now have over 40 times as many shares as I did in 1997. It just needs a modest recovery and meanswhile I am enjoying the dividends. My IRR since 1988 is 16.5%.[added emphasis]

TJH

Thanks for sharing your detailed records. That is actually a very strong IRR and much higher than I would have expected. You know, someone buying in 2020 would have a pretty decent dividend yield on cost. Lloyds today does not have huge growth potential but is paying a decent dividend.

Best wishes


Mark.

Much higher than I would have expected too based on Lloyd's shareprice history ( and an average cost 25 % higher than the current price)

[Arborbridge]

I've just been looking through my file on LLOY.

First bought in 1988 at 322p, then 1995 merged with TSB and Lloyds at 847p became TSB at 330p, with a 270% increase in the number of shares. In 1997 I trimmed back because they were very overweight at 531p. Added more on 4 occasions until the takeover of Halifax Bank of Scotland in 2009. There was a scrip dividend in May 2009 at 100.7p, then an open offer at 38.4p and a rights issue at 37p, both of which I took up. By now I had 10.8 times as many shares as I had in 1997. Since then I have added more in 2016 at 54p, in 2019 at 63p and in 2020 at 43.8p. I have a note that the price fell to 26p when they did not announce a dividend for Q2 in 2020. Since then I added in 2022 at 48.7p and again in No. 2023 at 42.3p. My average cost is now 56.4p, and I am about 28% below cost overall.

I now have over 40 times as many shares as I did in 1997. It just needs a modest recovery and meanswhile I am enjoying the dividends. My IRR since 1988 is 16.5%.

TJH

Amazing IRR - well done for hanging in there so long. I'm underwater from 2007 with a negative XIRR.

Cynics and others will be amazed to find my Lloyds is actually in the running for a topup and is not now "banned" due to the amount of capital invested. I'm free to have another tilt at the windmill.

Arb .

[kempiejon]

Amazing IRR - well done for hanging in there so long. I'm underwater from 2007 with a negative XIRR.

Cynics and others will be amazed to find my Lloyds is actually in the running for a topup and is not now "banned" due to the amount of capital invested. I'm free to have another tilt at the windmill.

Arb .

Arb doesn't the shonkey dividend record exclude them?
I don't record anything very much and nothing at individual share level but I made some money back trading Lloyds down at the 20p mark. I still hold some of my HYP purchase and note the increasing dividend most recently.

[Arborbridge]

Amazing IRR - well done for hanging in there so long. I'm underwater from 2007 with a negative XIRR.

Cynics and others will be amazed to find my Lloyds is actually in the running for a topup and is not now "banned" due to the amount of capital invested. I'm free to have another tilt at the windmill.

Arb .

Arb doesn't the shonkey dividend record exclude them?
I don't record anything very much and nothing at individual share level but I made some money back trading Lloyds down at the 20p mark. I still hold some of my HYP purchase and note the increasing dividend most recently.

Another share with a better record might get the nod, but they've been doing better in the past three years.
As TJH said: "It just needs a modest recovery and meanswhile I am enjoying the dividends."
UnHYP-like but I would also check the share price record - diabolical, but is it beginning to turn-around? An uptrend would be like goldust with Terry and I having so many shares now. The trouble is, I've been there before with Lloyds.

Arb.

[daveh]

Arb doesn't the shonkey dividend record exclude them?
I don't record anything very much and nothing at individual share level but I made some money back trading Lloyds down at the 20p mark. I still hold some of my HYP purchase and note the increasing dividend most recently.

Another share with a better record might get the nod, but they've been doing better in the past three years.
As TJH said: "It just needs a modest recovery and meanswhile I am enjoying the dividends."
UnHYP-like but I would also check the share price record - diabolical, but is it beginning to turn-around? An uptrend would be like goldust with Terry and I having so many shares now. The trouble is, I've been there before with Lloyds.

Arb.

LLoyds sits at #7 in my HYPTUSS top up list. LLPC is higher at #5 and NWG is in equal seventh place which is interesting as that means that NWG has fallen back and LLOY climbed since the results. I had a quick look at my records of dividends for Lloyds which show a growing dividend since 2015 in cash term for me bar, the PRA enforced cut in 2020/1 for Covid. That doesn't match the dividend data record which shows a steady growth in the dividend from resumption after the GFC to the PRA cut and then a steady growth from a lower level after the covid halt. Difference being a combination of my spreadsheet summary recording cash dividends by calendar year plus a couple of purchases at prices slightly higher than todays (why didn't I buy when they were 20pish?). As both LLOY and NWG are now in 7th= it looks like they won't be getting a top up, pre results NWG was in line to be topped up as it was in 4th place.

I'm trying to follow HYPTUSS a bit more and my gut feel a bit less as TJH has done significantly better than me over the period my portfolio has been running. My XIRR over the length of time my HYPish portfolio has been running is only 6.8%pa.

[tjh290633]

Cynics and others will be amazed to find my Lloyds is actually in the running for a topup and is not now "banned" due to the amount of capital invested. I'm free to have another tilt at the windmill.

Arb .

My holding is in the same boat, as it accounts for the highest level of portfolio cost since I topped it up in November.

TJH

[Arborbridge]

Cynics and others will be amazed to find my Lloyds is actually in the running for a topup and is not now "banned" due to the amount of capital invested. I'm free to have another tilt at the windmill.

Arb .

My holding is in the same boat, as it accounts for the highest level of portfolio cost since I topped it up in November.

TJH

Interesting that you topped up - in effect not worrying too much about the dividend record, described as shonkey by kempiejon.
My own feeling is that it has achieved some stability, and we will find it satisfactory from now on. I think those that insist on 5 years of improvement (Luni, Pyad etc) would wait, whereas you and I might anticipate the good news.

Arb.

[ElectronicFur]

My holding is in the same boat, as it accounts for the highest level of portfolio cost since I topped it up in November.

TJH

I noticed you avoid topping up shares which have paused their dividends. Do you have any rules about topping up shares with less than stellar dividend records?

I aspire to be more structured in my topping up and trimming so interested to see what others do.

EF

[kempiejon]

Cynics and others will be amazed to find my Lloyds is actually in the running for a topup and is not now "banned" due to the amount of capital invested. I'm free to have another tilt at the windmill.

My holding is in the same boat, as it accounts for the highest level of portfolio cost since I topped it up in November.

TJH

I noticed you avoid topping up shares which have paused their dividends. Do you have any rules about topping up shares with less than stellar dividend records?

EF I think you misunderstood TJHs reason for passing this time, it is because it has exceeded a limit for capital invested it is not the paused dividend. Arb on the other hand doesn't have that problem. So although both have internal limits TJH's is passed Arb's not yet.
I on the other hand would exclude it because I like to see a longer history of increasing dividends. Long term Lloyds has cut twice in the past decade. Having recovered from an earlier cut in 2017&8. COvid contributed to a pause but I'm still reticent to add more to a share with a shonkey long term dividend history.

edit missed a quote

[Arborbridge]

EF I think you misunderstood TJHs reason for passing this time, it is because it has exceeded a limit for capital invested it is not the paused dividend. Arb on the other hand doesn't have that problem. So although both have internal limits TJH's is passed Arb's not yet.
I on the other hand would exclude it because I like to see a longer history of increasing dividends. Long term Lloyds has cut twice in the past decade. Having recovered from an earlier cut in 2017&8. COvid contributed to a pause but I'm still reticent to add more to a share with a shonkey long term dividend history.

I would like to hear TJH's view on the shonkey dividend, even so. He clearly isn't worried about it, although it doesn't come within the "5 year guideline" -nowhere near.


Arb.

[kempiejon]

I would like to hear TJH's view on the shonkey dividend, even so. He clearly isn't worried about it, although it doesn't come within the "5 year guideline" -nowhere near.

Yes let's see what TJH thinks, most likely more relaxed than I am. Early in m HYPing I would allow a forecast dividend increase to get through so 4 years would do - like Lloyds now I think. I would also be OK with held dividends provided there had been some increase over the 5 year period. I have tightened that up so I have to be pretty convinced to flex that. Covid hold and cuts, some enforced by government some just obvious prudence does need some contemplation. So far I have not had to worry too much about those rules, last buy Legal and General, 14 years of increasing dividend CAGR 8% and a similar number for yield and Coca Cola, a modest 3.5% yield with a 10 year history showing increases CAGR of 10%.
Still I digress from Lloyds' results but perhaps it gives Electronic Fur some incite into my reasons

I aspire to be more structured in my topping up and trimming so interested to see what others do.

[ElectronicFur]

EF I think you misunderstood

No, I think you misunderstood I wasn't referring to his reason for passing this time.

I noticed TJH has in the past avoided topping up shares which paused their dividends, but he seems less strict about the dividend history, so I was wondering if he had any hard and fast rules about this.

[kempiejon]

No, I think you misunderstood

Oft my shortcoming, p'raps TJH will lay it out. I have rules though I'm sure guidelines would be more appropriate but it's not until after the fact I can see when rules should have been flexed. For now I stick to them as I know no way of knowing when not to.

[tjh290633]

EF I think you misunderstood TJHs reason for passing this time, it is because it has exceeded a limit for capital invested it is not the paused dividend. Arb on the other hand doesn't have that problem. So although both have internal limits TJH's is passed Arb's not yet.
I on the other hand would exclude it because I like to see a longer history of increasing dividends. Long term Lloyds has cut twice in the past decade. Having recovered from an earlier cut in 2017&8. COvid contributed to a pause but I'm still reticent to add more to a share with a shonkey long term dividend history.

I would like to hear TJH's view on the shonkey dividend, even so. He clearly isn't worried about it, although it doesn't come within the "5 year guideline" -nowhere near.


Arb.

I am not too worried about the dividend. Probably the inquiry into motor finance is holding things back. The pause during Covid does not concern me. Slight reduction in the dividend after the pause is of little consequence. Yield near enough 6% brings in a decent dividend. Currently 2.76p, compared with 3.21p before Covid. I will tolerate that. They resumed in 2015, having cut in 2009, when they absorbed Halifax BofS. Two exceptional circumstances.

TJH

[monabri]

I would like to hear TJH's view on the shonkey dividend, even so. He clearly isn't worried about it, although it doesn't come within the "5 year guideline" -nowhere near.


Arb.

I am not too worried about the dividend. Probably the inquiry into motor finance is holding things back. The pause during Covid does not concern me. Slight reduction in the dividend after the pause is of little consequence. Yield near enough 6% brings in a decent dividend. Currently 2.76p, compared with 3.21p before Covid. I will tolerate that. They resumed in 2015, having cut in 2009, when they absorbed Halifax BofS. Two exceptional circumstances.

TJH

2.76p from 3.21p is a 14% drop. I seem to half recall the chairman saying that the Covid withheld dividends belonged to the investors intimating that they would be paid the missed dividends in due course..... looks like we are still waiting. Whilst Lloyds could afford the dividend it was the nasty Mr Woods of the Prudential Regulation Authority that "advised" them ( threatened ) not to pay the dividend,.

[daveh]

Perhaps with the share price still well down and the company undervalued they have decided now is a good time to direct more of the cash available for shareholder returns to buybacks rather than dividends. Long-term this may be a good move.

[kempiejon]

Perhaps with the share price still well down and the company undervalued they have decided now is a good time to direct more of the cash available for shareholder returns to buybacks rather than dividends. Long-term this may be a good move.

Makes a change from my other companies doing buybacks at higher levels than today's share price. I remember pyad railing against buy backs, the HYPer would rather have those shares in their own pocket to distribute as they see fit. I suppose I could get behind the concept if I really thought the best thing a company could do with profits is to buy and cancel their own shares leaving less in the float so dividend money goes further on a per share basis. But didn't we just see the number of shares in circulation compared to years ago had rocketed?

[Arborbridge]

Perhaps with the share price still well down and the company undervalued they have decided now is a good time to direct more of the cash available for shareholder returns to buybacks rather than dividends. Long-term this may be a good move.

It's a very imperious way to treat shareholders - like governments who always believe they know best how to spend our own money.
No, I would rather they genuinely return money to shareholders and let me decide what to do with it*.

*before anyone puts the opposite POV, I do understand the theory of buybacks, and with Lloyds price being depressed it isn't a bad time to do so. However, so often it is just a way of management securing their bonuses.

Arb.