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Centrica and SSE

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PinkDalek
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Re: Centrica and SSE

#86320

Postby PinkDalek » October 6th, 2017, 3:22 pm

Raptor wrote:
Moderator Message:
Rereading my previous post I believe I should have been a bit more specific and my apologies. The posts were becoming more "general" posts on what could/would/should happen with Brexit or political change. These posts were not SSE or Centrica specific posts. Obviously how these affect SSE , Centrica is relevant. Again my apologies that it "read" no discussing brexit or politics on HYP Practical. Raptor.


If of any interest, there is an existing Topic over at Retirement Investing (inc FIRE) (albeit not I think specific to High Yield Portfolios (HYP) - Practical):

Protecting against political risk to retirement income
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7546

idpickering
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Re: Centrica and SSE

#86325

Postby idpickering » October 6th, 2017, 3:48 pm

BreakoutBoy wrote:
Well, I did try up thread to point out the advantages CNA has as a HY option.

Anyway, I have been moderated one time too many or somesuch, so will bid you all adieu, permanently.


Hi BreakoutBoy, I do hope your later comment was made in jest. You are one of the most sensible and articulate posters here, and I hope you continue coming here.

Regards,

Ian.

Wizard
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Re: Centrica and SSE

#86362

Postby Wizard » October 6th, 2017, 6:17 pm

idpickering wrote:
BreakoutBoy wrote:
Well, I did try up thread to point out the advantages CNA has as a HY option.

Anyway, I have been moderated one time too many or somesuch, so will bid you all adieu, permanently.


Hi BreakoutBoy, I do hope your later comment was made in jest. You are one of the most sensible and articulate posters here, and I hope you continue coming here.

Regards,

Ian.

Well you can hold out hope Ian, he has made posts on other boards since the quoted one.

Terry.

UncleEbenezer
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Re: Centrica and SSE

#86367

Postby UncleEbenezer » October 6th, 2017, 6:57 pm

moorfield wrote:
ayshfm1 wrote:There isn't much we can do about Corbyn


We can not vote for him ... :P

True, but the good folks of Islington can, and many of them do.

I'll get me coat.

Bouleversee
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Re: Centrica and SSE

#86376

Postby Bouleversee » October 6th, 2017, 8:37 pm

According to someone speaking on the Today programme, quite a large percentage of Conservatives think that the utilities, railways et. should be renationalised.

For those of you wondering whether to buy, sell or hold these two, you may find these brokers' views helpful:

Centrica:

06/10 Deutsche Bank Reiterates sell 160.00p
05/10 HSBC Reiterates Hold 190.00p
05/10 Credit Suisse Reiterates Neutral 225.00p

SSE:

6/10 Deutsche Bank: sell 1300
5/10 HSBC: Buy 1530
5/10 Credit Suisse - outperform 1500

I thought so. :lol:

Now, where's that monkey with the pin?

Dod1010
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Re: Centrica and SSE

#86386

Postby Dod1010 » October 6th, 2017, 9:51 pm

Broker's views are never helpful. I have no idea whether you should hold Centrica in the long term any more than I know whether you should hold SSE but I hold SSE not Centrica. I trust it more.

Dod

moorfield
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Re: Centrica and SSE

#86387

Postby moorfield » October 6th, 2017, 9:59 pm

Bouleversee wrote:For those of you wondering whether to buy, sell or hold these two, you may find these brokers' views helpful:


And yet again.

Shouldn't we here - on HYP Practical - be deliberately ignoring all forecasts and opinions for the long term future of the economy, the sector or the individual share on the basis that nobody knows and that those who think they know, know even less?

A well diversified HYP containing SSE and CNA will churn along fine over the next 10-15 years. IMHO.

[Disclosure: these two account for 10% capital and 13.6% income of my own HYP currently. I'm happy with that.]

Bouleversee
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Re: Centrica and SSE

#86400

Postby Bouleversee » October 6th, 2017, 10:59 pm

Oh for heaven's sake, it was meant as a bit of light relief, to illustrate how even the "experts" haven't a clue what's going to happen. However happy you are to hold, you still have to consider which shares to top up or not but however much you research, the future is an unknown quantity. I've had enough of all this carping and pontificating and from a purely practical point of view, I'll get a lot more done if I don't waste time posting on here. So many things are taboo and I don't really see how one can separate strategy from practical in any case. Goodbye.

moorfield
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Re: Centrica and SSE

#86403

Postby moorfield » October 6th, 2017, 11:13 pm

Bouleversee wrote:Oh for heaven's sake, it was meant as a bit of light relief, to illustrate how even the "experts" haven't a clue what's going to happen.


I do apologise BV. I am in mischievous mood today and my comment was aimed at the moderators of HYP Practical - the interpretation of which does seem rather fluid sometimes - not you.

This fine episode of Blackadder springs to mind. Superb, and have a good weekend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOSYiT2iG08

monabri
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Re: Centrica and SSE

#86404

Postby monabri » October 6th, 2017, 11:17 pm

I hope you pay your monkey well :)

https://www.brokerforecasts.com/static/ ... rformance/

I'd guess that they generally get it right a little over 50% of the time .

Hence no one can really forsee the future (which accords with Buffet's thoughts).

Didn't Doris (Day) sing something along those lines?


(I've seen other stats presented which are nowhere near as kind to the brokers).

idpickering
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Re: Centrica and SSE

#86416

Postby idpickering » October 7th, 2017, 5:12 am

Wizard wrote:

Well you can hold out hope Ian, he has made posts on other boards since the quoted one.

Terry.


I hope so. It is a shame that such things happen when posters lose faith and interest in what to me is the best discussion board here, and our former home. Maybe our team here can learn something from his seeming abandonment of this board, and remember to be open to other's points of view and opinions, and not being overly judgemental, sometimes displaying arrogance, aloofness, and being overly picky. I have toyed with dumping this board myself before due to some posters actions.

Ian.

idpickering
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Re: Centrica and SSE

#86417

Postby idpickering » October 7th, 2017, 5:20 am

idpickering wrote:
Wizard wrote:

Well you can hold out hope Ian, he has made posts on other boards since the quoted one.

Terry.


I hope so. It is a shame that such things happen when posters lose faith and interest in what to me is the best discussion board here, and our former home. Maybe our team here can learn something from his seeming abandonment of this board, and remember to be open to other's points of view and opinions, and not being overly judgemental, sometimes displaying arrogance, aloofness, and being overly picky. I have toyed with dumping this board myself before due to some posters actions.

Ian.


Having just read a few posts back, it seems Bouleversee has given up on this board too!!. That is a real shame and I hope that is not the case.
Need I say more? Let's get a grip guys and make this the well informed, polite, and welcoming board on Lemon.

Ian.

Arborbridge
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Re: Centrica and SSE

#86426

Postby Arborbridge » October 7th, 2017, 8:09 am

My quick reading suggests the board was in an angry mood yesterday: I'm rather glad I went out for most of it :)

Let's hope today will see the return of a normal HYP Practical.

On a brighter note, I've just logged the first week's income this month, and it is a bumper harvest. (NB includes OIECS and ITs).

Arb.

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Re: Centrica and SSE

#86430

Postby csearle » October 7th, 2017, 8:42 am

Arborbridge wrote:Let's hope today will see the return of a normal HYP Practical.
Moderator Message:
My sentiment entirely

Wizard
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Re: Centrica and SSE

#86437

Postby Wizard » October 7th, 2017, 9:16 am

csearle wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:Let's hope today will see the return of a normal HYP Practical.
Moderator Message:
My sentiment entirely

Agreed, because as far as I can see there are not actually that many active posters on this board and losing two in one day is a pretty big hit.

Terry.

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Re: Centrica and SSE

#86464

Postby Gengulphus » October 7th, 2017, 11:29 am

moorfield wrote:Shouldn't we here - on HYP Practical - be deliberately ignoring all forecasts and opinions for the long term future of the economy, the sector or the individual share on the basis that nobody knows and that those who think they know, know even less?

Quite possibly and indeed I try to do so myself, though not all HYPers subscribe to that form of "strategic ignorance".

But what about short term forecasts? The Conservatives' price cap probably has a timescale of something of the rough order of a year, i.e. similar to those of forecast dividends, which loads of HYPers use, including pyad. Realistically, Labour's intentions involve longer-term forecasting than that: to put them into effect, they've got to get into power, then get the legislation through Parliament and very likely legal challenges (note that the European Convention on Human Rights has stuff to say about property rights and is not part of the European Union treaties, so Brexit does not in itself exit from it). Nevertheless, I'd be pretty certain that if Labour gets into power reasonably soon, they could get their nationalisation plans through within say five years from now, which I at least don't count as truly long-term.

Nevertheless, I do in general ignore individual broker forecasts and opinions - not for "strategic ignorance" reasons, but because I generally have no idea of the competence of the analyst making the forecast to do the job well. Consensus forecasts average that out, and I'll use them on the basis that it probably results in reasonably-but-by-no-means-outstandingly competent forecasts for a few key figures - with the proviso that they probably won't necessarily adjust all that quickly to major news, so need to be read in the light of any major recent news. Consensus opinions don't exist, and summary individual opinions along "Target price 500p. Buy." lines give too little to get to grips with. I will generally read individual broker reports on companies I'm interested in to see whether the analyst suggests any factors I've overlooked (not for their opinions about those factors) - if I can easily get hold of them, which is quite rare. (Journalists' reports trying to summarise broker reports are another matter - too much of a 'Chinese Whispers' aspect to them for my taste...)

Gengulphus

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Re: Centrica and SSE

#86483

Postby richfool » October 7th, 2017, 1:11 pm

When doing my research, I usually include a look at the HL website page for the stock in question. That gives a summary and includes tabs for: "Research", "Broker Forecasts", "Dividends" and a "News Summary" amongst others. This is their main summary page for Centrica:
http://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-searc ... rd-6,1481p

I notice that today's Times moves Centrica to a "Sell" recommendation.

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Re: Centrica and SSE

#87112

Postby monabri » October 10th, 2017, 9:09 am

Centrica

The Group Chief Exec bought 100 thousand shares on Monday

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exch ... 90734.html

And the Chairman bought 57 thousand shares today

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exch ... 91556.html

Not insignificant sums of money.

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Re: Centrica and SSE

#89882

Postby moorfield » October 22nd, 2017, 10:33 am

spiderbill wrote:Centrica and SSE fall on government energy price caps

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-04/centrica-falls-most-since-june-as-may-targets-energy-price-cap

Thank heavens my holding of Centrica is small, cos it's now 51% down on capital value. SSE merely 10% down.

Spiderbill


Well this game of keepie uppie rumbles on... Cui bono I do wonder.

Civil servants lay ground to dump Theresa May's planned energy bill cap amid cabinet split

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 11296.html

Centrica (CNA) currently yielding 6.9%.

NeilW
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Re: Centrica and SSE

#89965

Postby NeilW » October 22nd, 2017, 6:50 pm

Gengulphus wrote: then get the legislation through Parliament and very likely legal challenges


There can be no legal challenges against an express intention of Parliament. If Parliament decides to derogate, then that is the end of the matter in the UK. A single line alteration in the Human Rights Act is all that is necessary to push ECHR power over property to the international plane and out of the scope of individuals.

The constitutional nature of the EU treaty - where rich people can challenge the elected representatives of the people in court - is a 40 year aberration in the way the UK is run. Brexit was very much about removing that type of power, and I expect that process to continue. Particularly as "Foreign Direct Investment" becomes seen as the lie that it is, and therefore international investment protection gets eliminated.

The problem is, as we here demonstrate, that government has been using Utility bills to tax people to pay pensions to people like us. Privatisation and pensions in general is really just a way of government washing its hands of retirement provision and handing the tax collection over to private companies - who then distribute it unequally to those who are minted.

Unsurprisingly those at the bottom end of town are getting a bit fed up with the process and want it changed.

It's very likely that the Utilities will be re-nationalised. The argument for compensation should be one around the alternative provision for pensions - say an appropriate index-lined Gilt.


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