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DB Pension Review - Fees

rockyrocky
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DB Pension Review - Fees

#123476

Postby rockyrocky » March 9th, 2018, 1:23 pm

Having a few problems folks...

I've got a number of DB pension pots - the usual final salary stuff.

Personal circumstances (poor health, probably lowered life expectancy, unmarried) *may* mean that there are good reasons to transfer into a SIPP, but I understand that these reviews are quite complex and sometimes controversial (and not cheap).

Have found an adviser who will do it for me but he wants £2k for advice, another £5k for implementation and then ongoing fees of about 1.25% pa thereafter. I've said no to this (for now). It's way, way more money than I had budgeted for.

I would have been quite happy to pay the £2k for his advice and then do the rest myself (thus avoiding most of the fees) but he won't do this. I gather many IFAs take the same stance on this.

Does anyone know how might I find an IFA who would bill for the advice part but leave me to do the rest? I'm unsure where to turn.

Thanks...

Chrysalis
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Re: DB Pension Review - Fees

#123619

Postby Chrysalis » March 9th, 2018, 6:33 pm

Try looking for a financial planner rather than a financial adviser/wealth manager? I think they have to have additional retirement qualifications. I don't know, but you'll just have to keep looking until you find one - you might need to call as many as it takes. There's no reason to sign up to a service you don't want, over and above the advice that you need so I would persevere.
Have you had valuations on your DB pensions - are you aware that you only need financial advice if they are worth more than £30K? (obviously this would be a very small pension but worth being aware of).

rockyrocky
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Re: DB Pension Review - Fees

#123620

Postby rockyrocky » March 9th, 2018, 6:35 pm

Thanks. I'm in the middle of getting hold of CETV numbers for my DB pensions but yes they'll all be well over the £30k threshold so I do know I'll have to get IFA advice before transferring any of them into a SIPP, for example.

mc2fool
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Re: DB Pension Review - Fees

#123683

Postby mc2fool » March 9th, 2018, 11:42 pm

rockyrocky wrote:Have found an adviser who will do it for me but he wants £2k for advice, another £5k for implementation and then ongoing fees of about 1.25% pa thereafter.

Crooks.

But wait, he gave you those quotes without knowing the value of your pensions? Or did you give him an approximation? I just wonder 'cos from what I've heard most want to charge a percentage.

If you do find one that'll do it for a reasonable price please do report back ... I'm sure others will be interested (inc. me :))

ursaminortaur
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Re: DB Pension Review - Fees

#123773

Postby ursaminortaur » March 10th, 2018, 3:02 pm

mc2fool wrote:
rockyrocky wrote:Have found an adviser who will do it for me but he wants £2k for advice, another £5k for implementation and then ongoing fees of about 1.25% pa thereafter.

Crooks.

But wait, he gave you those quotes without knowing the value of your pensions? Or did you give him an approximation? I just wonder 'cos from what I've heard most want to charge a percentage.

If you do find one that'll do it for a reasonable price please do report back ... I'm sure others will be interested (inc. me :))


Another problem that you may well encounter is that the advice will be not to do it. Hopefully that won't be the result in your case since you have health problems. However if that were to be the case you could insist on a transfer but many Sipp providers are refusing to deal with such "insistent clients".

rockyrocky
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Re: DB Pension Review - Fees

#123778

Postby rockyrocky » March 10th, 2018, 3:26 pm

Thanks. Yes I know about the "insistent client" issue. I guess I'll cross that bridge if I come to it. I'm trying to approach this with an open mind - gut reaction is of course "oooooh yes I'll do a transfer into a SIPP and get my sweaty paws on the cash when I hit 55" but obviously that can be a dangerous way of thinking! (eg if the money is all gone when I hit 60 and I find myself living to 100!!)

mc2fool
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Re: DB Pension Review - Fees

#123829

Postby mc2fool » March 10th, 2018, 7:46 pm

ursaminortaur wrote:
mc2fool wrote:
rockyrocky wrote:Have found an adviser who will do it for me but he wants £2k for advice, another £5k for implementation and then ongoing fees of about 1.25% pa thereafter.

Crooks.

But wait, he gave you those quotes without knowing the value of your pensions? Or did you give him an approximation? I just wonder 'cos from what I've heard most want to charge a percentage.

If you do find one that'll do it for a reasonable price please do report back ... I'm sure others will be interested (inc. me :))

Another problem that you may well encounter is that the advice will be not to do it.

I suspect not in this case as the IFA would be giving up the opportunity to milk the OP for a further £5K and an ongoing 1.25%...

Moderator Message:
RS: Disparaging reference deleted

Alaric
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Re: DB Pension Review - Fees

#123851

Postby Alaric » March 10th, 2018, 9:52 pm

rockyrocky wrote:Thanks. Yes I know about the "insistent client" issue.


You should put your foot down if advice not to transfer is based on an irrelevant and not intended course of action. If your intention is to self invest and utilise the new drawdown rules, you want a comparison between that and retaining the defined scheme benefits. Apart from vaguely second guessing whether the transfer value as calculated is "fair", a comparison that assumes you invest in something until your normal retirement date and then buy an annuity is of limited if any value.

zico
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Re: DB Pension Review - Fees

#127571

Postby zico » March 23rd, 2018, 3:29 pm

I'm just finding out something similar. I contacted an IFA who said that because they need to put everything through their compliance department to cover themselves, so it would be around 3.5/4% of the pension value. (Mine is around £100k transfer value, or a pension of £2.5k per year).

Surely there must be a more effficient way of doing this. In my case, the pension I want to transfer would account for less than 10% of my total defined benefit pensions, so it's clearly not a critical decision for me.

LongWayToGo
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Re: DB Pension Review - Fees

#127599

Postby LongWayToGo » March 23rd, 2018, 4:23 pm

I am just going through this process. After being quoted rather large fees I alighted on SippClub and am currently going through them for my transfer (single DB scheme with CETV of £110k).

The fee is 1% of transfer value (subject to minimum charge of £1995 and max of £7500) but is charged only if transfer is approved and is only payable once transfer into your scheme of choice is complete. They do offer an ongoing annual review option (0.25% charge) but this is optional and I have chosen not to take it (I plan to manage myself using global, diverse, low-cost trackers). They have put me under no pressure to use their SIPP provider, nor sign up for ongoing services and fees I don't want.

So far they have been very good, prompt responses and updates from them via email. I received a preliminary assessment of the suitability of transfer within 48 hours (which was positive) and agreed to proceed to stage 2 (creation of a full suitability report). My draft report arrived this afternoon confirming their recommendation that transfer is sensible and we are now going ahead with the transfer.

It almost seems too good to be true!

ursaminortaur
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Re: DB Pension Review - Fees

#127605

Postby ursaminortaur » March 23rd, 2018, 4:46 pm

LongWayToGo wrote:I am just going through this process. After being quoted rather large fees I alighted on SippClub and am currently going through them for my transfer (single DB scheme with CETV of £110k).

The fee is 1% of transfer value (subject to minimum charge of £1995 and max of £7500) but is charged only if transfer is approved and is only payable once transfer into your scheme of choice is complete. They do offer an ongoing annual review option (0.25% charge) but this is optional and I have chosen not to take it (I plan to manage myself using global, diverse, low-cost trackers). They have put me under no pressure to use their SIPP provider, nor sign up for ongoing services and fees I don't want.

So far they have been very good, prompt responses and updates from them via email. I received a preliminary assessment of the suitability of transfer within 48 hours (which was positive) and agreed to proceed to stage 2 (creation of a full suitability report). My draft report arrived this afternoon confirming their recommendation that transfer is sensible and we are now going ahead with the transfer.

It almost seems too good to be true!


I hope this isn't anything to worry about but this suggests Sippclub limited are not covered by the FCA

https://register.fca.org.uk/ShPo_FirmDetailsPage?id=001b000000WBPEiAAP

Status: No longer registered as an Appointed Representative
(Reference number: 624902)
This is an appointed representative (AR) that is no longer an agent of an authorised firm. Do not start to do 'REGULATED' business with an AR that is no longer registered

PinkDalek
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Re: DB Pension Review - Fees

#127608

Postby PinkDalek » March 23rd, 2018, 4:59 pm

Looks like that’s about SIPPClub Limited itself, as you say, but SIPPCLUB has been a trading name of Better Retirement Group Limited since January 2018 (previously SIPP Club), as per:

https://register.fca.org.uk/ShPo_FirmDe ... 00MfGkJAAV

ursaminortaur
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Re: DB Pension Review - Fees

#127656

Postby ursaminortaur » March 23rd, 2018, 7:20 pm

PinkDalek wrote:Looks like that’s about SIPPClub Limited itself, as you say, but SIPPCLUB has been a trading name of Better Retirement Group Limited since January 2018 (previously SIPP Club), as per:

https://register.fca.org.uk/ShPo_FirmDe ... 00MfGkJAAV


Thanks for the clarification.

mc2fool
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Re: DB Pension Review - Fees

#127813

Postby mc2fool » March 24th, 2018, 4:47 pm

LongWayToGo wrote:I am just going through this process. After being quoted rather large fees I alighted on SippClub and am currently going through them for my transfer (single DB scheme with CETV of £110k).

The fee is 1% of transfer value (subject to minimum charge of £1995 and max of £7500) but is charged only if transfer is approved and is only payable once transfer into your scheme of choice is complete. They do offer an ongoing annual review option (0.25% charge) but this is optional and I have chosen not to take it (I plan to manage myself using global, diverse, low-cost trackers). They have put me under no pressure to use their SIPP provider, nor sign up for ongoing services and fees I don't want.

So far they have been very good, prompt responses and updates from them via email. I received a preliminary assessment of the suitability of transfer within 48 hours (which was positive) and agreed to proceed to stage 2 (creation of a full suitability report). My draft report arrived this afternoon confirming their recommendation that transfer is sensible and we are now going ahead with the transfer.

It almost seems too good to be true!

I guess it's a reflection of the state of things when paying fees of 1% min £2K to get a sign off for transferring your pension is described as almost "too good to be true". Everything is relative I guess :D

You talk about everything being speedy to date but don't actually give an idea of how long so far. I take it you started at https://www.sippclub.com/why-a-final-sa ... -best-now/, yes? How long ago was that?

And please do keep us informed on how it all goes.

ursaminortaur
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Re: DB Pension Review - Fees

#128136

Postby ursaminortaur » March 26th, 2018, 6:29 pm

Snorvey wrote:Pension Transfers - New rules and guidance (26.03.18)

Thought it might be interesting to some on here.

https://www.fca.org.uk/publications/pol ... -transfers


The FCA were looking at loosening the rules for transfers but with recent evidence of wrong advice being given have decided against it.

https://www.ft.com/content/e8384bc8-30e2-11e8-b5bf-23cb17fd1498

The UK’s financial regulator has reversed plans to loosen pension transfer rules after finding a “significant proportion” of savers were wrongly advised to give up guaranteed retirement benefits.

They are also proposing to ban the practice of charging on a contingent basis ie only if the transfer goes ahead


To protect consumers, the FCA also proposed banning a controversial arrangement where an adviser is only paid if the consumer decides to transfer.
Christopher Woolard, FCA executive director of strategy and competition, said there is an “inherent conflict of interest when advisers use a contingent charging model”.

zico
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Re: DB Pension Review - Fees

#128176

Postby zico » March 26th, 2018, 11:11 pm

I emailed them last night using the link from earlier in this thread, and got a reply at midday today.

"Thank you for your enquiry. We will now run some preliminary figures to ensure that the transfer value offers good value compared to the preserved pension. I will be in touch again in the next few days"

I'll keep you updated on progress, timescales and how it works out. Glad I saw the updated post on this, as I was going to go with HargreavesLansdown who charge £3,500 for this service.

LongWayToGo
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Re: DB Pension Review - Fees

#129330

Postby LongWayToGo » April 1st, 2018, 6:15 pm

mc2fool wrote:
LongWayToGo wrote:I am just going through this process. After being quoted rather large fees I alighted on SippClub and am currently going through them for my transfer (single DB scheme with CETV of £110k).

The fee is 1% of transfer value (subject to minimum charge of £1995 and max of £7500) but is charged only if transfer is approved and is only payable once transfer into your scheme of choice is complete. They do offer an ongoing annual review option (0.25% charge) but this is optional and I have chosen not to take it (I plan to manage myself using global, diverse, low-cost trackers). They have put me under no pressure to use their SIPP provider, nor sign up for ongoing services and fees I don't want.

So far they have been very good, prompt responses and updates from them via email. I received a preliminary assessment of the suitability of transfer within 48 hours (which was positive) and agreed to proceed to stage 2 (creation of a full suitability report). My draft report arrived this afternoon confirming their recommendation that transfer is sensible and we are now going ahead with the transfer.

It almost seems too good to be true!

I guess it's a reflection of the state of things when paying fees of 1% min £2K to get a sign off for transferring your pension is described as almost "too good to be true". Everything is relative I guess :D

You talk about everything being speedy to date but don't actually give an idea of how long so far.

And please do keep us informed on how it all goes.


Initial assessment as suitable for transfer took 48 hours. I emailed them confirming I wished to proceed to stage two and was sent more detailed documents to complete by email (risk assessment, details of current financial situation, pensions, plans for retirement etc). I returned these by email (took a couple of days for me to complete them) and then took approximately 10 days before I received the full transfer assessment with financial projections, letters of recommendation etc. Once I'd read through and confirmed all details were correct their transfer admin department takes over the process. They emailed me within 24 hours with PDFs of all the required documents for me to sign (client agreement, risk assessment, letters of recommendation, communication authorisation letters for ceding and receiving schemes, transfer scheme paperwork, ID confirmation documents) which I have now completed, signed and sent in the post yesterday (this is the first point at which 'paper' communication is needed as wet signature needed on documents). Time taken to reach this point is 2-3 weeks. Will keep you posted with further progress.

mc2fool
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Re: DB Pension Review - Fees

#129345

Postby mc2fool » April 1st, 2018, 7:10 pm

LongWayToGo wrote:Will keep you posted with further progress.

Thanks for the update and, yes, please do :D

LongWayToGo
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Re: DB Pension Review - Fees

#129350

Postby LongWayToGo » April 1st, 2018, 7:31 pm

Snorvey wrote:As a matter of interest, was the recommendation to transfer or to leave it where it is?


Recommendation was to transfer. The scheme is from my very first employer who I worked for only 8 years and so the defined pension involved represents a small portion of my projected final retirement income (My starting salary with them was £5650 a year back in 1989!) The scheme doesn't pay out until I'm 65 and the spouse pension is quite poor (1/3 of original) which is a major factor for me as my wife is 10 years younger and likely to outlive me by some margin. In contrast I have another DB pension from my second employer worth considerably more (as I was earning a higher salary by this time and was with them longer) which I have chosen not to transfer as it can be taken from age 60 with no reduction and provides a 100% spouses pension.

Main reasons for the transfer were to provide some (hopefully) tax free cash for my wife and kids on my death (I have two small children, one aged 2 years and the other 8 months) who I would like to receive the money from this SIPP as my current pensions (apart from the second DB one) provide fairly poor spousal/dependents cover. Once I shuffle off the wife can decide to carry on taking the income from the investments if she feels she needs it, or take the cash, or give it to the kids to help buy houses/pay for university, or whatever she feels most appropriate at the time.

zico
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Re: DB Pension Review - Fees

#129352

Postby zico » April 1st, 2018, 7:45 pm

I got a summary answer 36 hours after sending them my details, and their recommendation was to take the offer. Their rationale is given below. I also had a named contact, and it was copied into another 3 people. So far, looks pretty good and professional.

"I am pleased to attach an extract from our preliminary figures and based upon this we would be minded to recommend a transfer on financial grounds

This is a very generous transfer in our opinion

There are 2 figures that we look at which are the amount of fund that is needed to match the estimated pension assuming that you took it at your retirement date and a cash flow analysis showing at certain investment rates of return showing when your funds would be exhausted.

This is for comparison purposes only as you are able to withdraw as much or as little as you wish. If you wish to proceed can you please complete the attached fact find and return it to me together with a scanned copy of the signed signature page of our client agreement which is attached. The fact find is designed to be completed online saved and emailed back to me

Please feel free to call me if there are any aspect that you wish to discuss "


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