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State pension record

Nimrod103
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State pension record

#186331

Postby Nimrod103 » December 12th, 2018, 11:06 am

I have received an invitation to get my UK state pension.
I have a good NI record, including times when I was working abroad for UK companies, who paid NI legitimately on my behalf. I have the HMRC/DWP records confirming this.

The DWP website to apply on, asks about years I worked abroad, and years lived abroad. I am not sure what relevance this has and what are the implications of answering in a straightforward way. It seems they could only be asking this question, if DWP were trying to offload some their liability to pay me, onto other countries, where I never joined (nor was entitled to join) their social security schemes.
Any idea how I should respond to this question on the website?

kiloran
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Re: State pension record

#186341

Postby kiloran » December 12th, 2018, 11:35 am

I seem to remember that the question about working abroad was to initiate the process to get your pension from those countries you worked in.

There was certainly no attempt to offload the UK's responsibility and my UK pension entitlement was never questioned

--kiloran

Dod101
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Re: State pension record

#186349

Postby Dod101 » December 12th, 2018, 11:52 am

I worked in Hong Kong for 23 years of my working life and my employer arranged to pay Class 3 contributions whilst I was there. I was never further questioned and received my State Pension at 65.

If you have evidence of contributions being paid sufficient for your UK State pension, I think you need to answer truthfully and as fully as you feel you need to. It sounds as though the question is a 'one size fits all' one and may not apply to you anyway.

Dod

mc2fool
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Re: State pension record

#186442

Postby mc2fool » December 12th, 2018, 7:47 pm

Nimrod103 wrote:The DWP website to apply on, asks about years I worked abroad, and years lived abroad. I am not sure what relevance this has and what are the implications of answering in a straightforward way. It seems they could only be asking this question, if DWP were trying to offload some their liability to pay me, onto other countries...

Totally the contrary, my cynical Lemon. :) The question is to see if it can benefit you. Time worked abroad has, at worst, no effect on your UK pension or, at best, gets you a UK pension when you wouldn't have got one in the first place.

You are now required to have at least 10 years of NI contributions to get any UK state pension at all. If you have less then you get nothing. However, if you have worked and contributed in other countries that the UK has treaties with, then contributing years in those countries will be taken into account for the qualification.

So, if you only had, say, 6 years of NI contributions you'd get nothing, but if you also had, say, 3 contributing years in the USA and another 1 in an EEA country, they'd include those for the 10 year qualification threshold and so you'd get a UK pension. The value of it would be based only on your 6 years of NI contributions but that's better than the zero you'd get otherwise.

Also, as already mentioned, in some cases (EEA countries mostly) DWP would also initiate the process of getting your pension from those other countries, including conveying your NI record to them, which may boost the pension you get from those countries.

It's all potentially a benefit, or at worst no effect. Having said that, it sounds like in your case it'd be no effect as neither of the above would apply, as you have more than 10 years NI already and aren't expecting any foreign state pensions anyway.

Nimrod103 wrote:Any idea how I should respond to this question on the website?

Honestly.

Nimrod103
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Re: State pension record

#186567

Postby Nimrod103 » December 13th, 2018, 11:33 am

mc2fool wrote:Honestly.


Thanks for this, honesty is always the best policy, but I wanted to know what I was letting myself in for. Plus to save the DWP the bother of contacting the 13 third world countries I have worked in, where even local people get no pension, let alone expats.

mc2fool
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Re: State pension record

#186581

Postby mc2fool » December 13th, 2018, 12:18 pm

Nimrod103 wrote:
mc2fool wrote:Honestly.

Thanks for this, honesty is always the best policy, but I wanted to know what I was letting myself in for. Plus to save the DWP the bother of contacting the 13 third world countries I have worked in, where even local people get no pension, let alone expats.

As it's unlikely that the UK has social security treaties with most of those sorts of countries you don't need to worry about that :D. They'll just look at your list and cross off any that there's no treaty with. I think the worst you'll be letting yourself in for is a follow up question asking for your social security number or equivalent in the countries with which we do have a treaty with, and of course when you say "none" that'll be it.

FYI, these are the countries where your pension record here may help your pension from them and vice-versa. https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... te-pension

Nimrod103
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Re: State pension record

#186619

Postby Nimrod103 » December 13th, 2018, 3:01 pm

mc2fool wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:
mc2fool wrote:Honestly.

Thanks for this, honesty is always the best policy, but I wanted to know what I was letting myself in for. Plus to save the DWP the bother of contacting the 13 third world countries I have worked in, where even local people get no pension, let alone expats.

As it's unlikely that the UK has social security treaties with most of those sorts of countries you don't need to worry about that :D. They'll just look at your list and cross off any that there's no treaty with. I think the worst you'll be letting yourself in for is a follow up question asking for your social security number or equivalent in the countries with which we do have a treaty with, and of course when you say "none" that'll be it.

FYI, these are the countries where your pension record here may help your pension from them and vice-versa. https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... te-pension


Hmm. Having just filled in the online form, it only allowed me to put in 5 of the countries I have lived/worked in, and randomly asked for dates on two of them. In only one case was I asked for a social security number, which of course it being nearly 40 years ago, I have no idea what it might be. My feedback on the helpfulness of the form was not positive.

mc2fool
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Re: State pension record

#186631

Postby mc2fool » December 13th, 2018, 4:02 pm

Nimrod103 wrote:Hmm. Having just filled in the online form, it only allowed me to put in 5 of the countries I have lived/worked in, and randomly asked for dates on two of them. In only one case was I asked for a social security number, which of course it being nearly 40 years ago, I have no idea what it might be. My feedback on the helpfulness of the form was not positive.

Umm ... but if you weren't in the social security systems of any of the other countries you won't have a social security number anyway, no?

Are you sure it was random and not possibly related to the countries with which the UK does have treaties? Or maybe that's just expecting a little too much intelligence from the online form :D

Anyway, sounds like you might want to give DWP a call....

Nimrod103
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Re: State pension record

#186672

Postby Nimrod103 » December 13th, 2018, 9:06 pm

mc2fool wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:Hmm. Having just filled in the online form, it only allowed me to put in 5 of the countries I have lived/worked in, and randomly asked for dates on two of them. In only one case was I asked for a social security number, which of course it being nearly 40 years ago, I have no idea what it might be. My feedback on the helpfulness of the form was not positive.

Umm ... but if you weren't in the social security systems of any of the other countries you won't have a social security number anyway, no?

Are you sure it was random and not possibly related to the countries with which the UK does have treaties? Or maybe that's just expecting a little too much intelligence from the online form :D

Anyway, sounds like you might want to give DWP a call....


On reflection, it probably was not random, but picked the one country where I might have been enrolled in the state social security scheme, but it was so long ago, I have no chance of finding any paperwork regarding the number. The online page certainly only allowed me to enter no more than 5 countries.

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Re: State pension record

#186684

Postby mc2fool » December 13th, 2018, 9:48 pm

Nimrod103 wrote:On reflection, it probably was not random, but picked the one country where I might have been enrolled in the state social security scheme, but it was so long ago, I have no chance of finding any paperwork regarding the number.

Well you may be able to get it by contacting the social security scheme of the country, but what I'd suggest first is a little research to see if it'd be worth it. You never know, you might be pleasantly surprised, even if it's only a little extra beer money. :D

If you let the board know the country in question others may be able to advise...


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