Shares, Investment and Personal Finance Discussion Forums
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mc2fool wrote:[Yes, with the pitiful interest rates of recent years we're talking small amounts, but by paying out of unsheltered funds (not the SIPP) I've lowered my tax bill, then and going forward.
PinkDalek wrote:mc2fool wrote:[Yes, with the pitiful interest rates of recent years we're talking small amounts, but by paying out of unsheltered funds (not the SIPP) I've lowered my tax bill, then and going forward.
You've also, potentially and dependent on your specific circs, saved your Estate some IHT.
mc2fool wrote:If you withdraw it then you are potentially subject to income tax, but you are presenting this as an absolute and it isn't, each person needs to figure their own situation, including considering the bigger picture "further" point.
If you withdraw it
potentially subject to income tax
anython wrote:mc2fool wrote:If you withdraw it then you are potentially subject to income tax, but you are presenting this as an absolute and it isn't, each person needs to figure their own situation, including considering the bigger picture "further" point.
Okay, I get what you are saying and particularly agree with the last two clauses, but I think you are glossing over reality in the first clause.Well unless we are just doing this for fun, then at some point we, or our beneficiaries, will ultimately withdraw.If you withdraw itpotentially subject to income tax
Aside from being able to shield 25% of your pot from income tax, the rest will be treated as taxable income, certainly actually paying tax is avoidable if you ensure your annual income always stays within the personal allowance, but otherwise there will be tax to pay.
Cash or gains within your SIPP are not sheltered from tax the tax reckoning is only deferred to the point where you withdraw funds. Hence if you can pay expenses out of the yet to be taxed funds in your SIPP it is a benefit - or at worst neutral (if you will be keeping withdrawals within the personal allowance).
), and considering what I'm sure is a much more common situation, what about IHT?mc2fool wrote:anython wrote:True, you are not (immediately) taxed on any gains with in your SIPP - but it you actually want to withdraw and spend those gains, they are subject to income tax.
So the point here is essentially that if you can pay the bill from funds within your SIPP, without that being deemed as withdrawing them (and been taxed) then it is certainly a benefit and this is true whether the effective marginal tax rate is 20% or 55%.
Money within your SIPP, whether it is gains or original capital (which potentially was sheltered as it went in). Is fully exposed to income tax.
If you withdraw it then you are potentially subject to income tax, but you are presenting this as an absolute and it isn't, each person needs to figure their own situation, including considering the bigger picture "further" point.
And you've not explained where you think the "benefit" would be in the example I gave. In fact I wasn't quite correct in saying, if you have, say, £5K in your building society savings account and, say, £100K in your SIPP, and you owe your IFA, say, £3K, there is no tax difference between paying the IFA fee from either.
There is in fact a tax difference in that by paying the fee from my building society account I lowered the amount of interest gained by the account and hence the tax on the interest, which I wouldn't have done if I'd paid the fee from the SIPP. Yes, with the pitiful interest rates of recent years we're talking small amounts, but by paying out of unsheltered funds (not the SIPP) I've lowered my tax bill, then and going forward.
Myfyr wrote:You could pay £3,000 from your building society account.
Alternartively pay the £3,000 from the pension fund then take £2,400 from the building society and pay theis into the pension getting it grossed up to £3,000 by the tax relief.
You have £600 more in your pocket by using the second option, possibly more if you are a higher rate taxpayer and get a further £600 higher rate tax refund!
)
mc2fool wrote:Myfyr wrote:You could pay £3,000 from your building society account.
Alternartively pay the £3,000 from the pension fund then take £2,400 from the building society and pay theis into the pension getting it grossed up to £3,000 by the tax relief.
You have £600 more in your pocket by using the second option, possibly more if you are a higher rate taxpayer and get a further £600 higher rate tax refund!
But then (unless you're me, see my immediately prior post) you'd be taxed on the £3K when you withdrew it from the SIPP, which is what anython was trying to avoid.
(Although for a BRT it would be 20% of 75% of it, so actually your net end benefit is £150, not £600. HRT figures left as an exercise for the reader.
And, even putting aside my prior post, if you are me you are already maxed out with SIPP (and ISA) contributions for the next quite-a-few years (at least) anyway!
Myfyr wrote:mc2fool wrote:Myfyr wrote:You could pay £3,000 from your building society account.
Alternartively pay the £3,000 from the pension fund then take £2,400 from the building society and pay theis into the pension getting it grossed up to £3,000 by the tax relief.
You have £600 more in your pocket by using the second option, possibly more if you are a higher rate taxpayer and get a further £600 higher rate tax refund!
But then (unless you're me, see my immediately prior post) you'd be taxed on the £3K when you withdrew it from the SIPP, which is what anython was trying to avoid.
(Although for a BRT it would be 20% of 75% of it, so actually your net end benefit is £150, not £600. HRT figures left as an exercise for the reader.
And, even putting aside my prior post, if you are me you are already maxed out with SIPP (and ISA) contributions for the next quite-a-few years (at least) anyway!
The £3k will come straight out to the adviser with no tax due, at least that was my view on adviser charging.
mc2fool wrote:Myfyr wrote:mc2fool wrote:But then (unless you're me, see my immediately prior post) you'd be taxed on the £3K when you withdrew it from the SIPP, which is what anython was trying to avoid.
(Although for a BRT it would be 20% of 75% of it, so actually your net end benefit is £150, not £600. HRT figures left as an exercise for the reader.
And, even putting aside my prior post, if you are me you are already maxed out with SIPP (and ISA) contributions for the next quite-a-few years (at least) anyway!
The £3k will come straight out to the adviser with no tax due, at least that was my view on adviser charging.
Yes, but you've replaced it with £2400 + £600 which will be taxed when you (eventually) withdraw it from the SIPP.
Myfyr wrote:mc2fool wrote:Myfyr wrote:The £3k will come straight out to the adviser with no tax due, at least that was my view on adviser charging.
Yes, but you've replaced it with £2400 + £600 which will be taxed when you (eventually) withdraw it from the SIPP.
Then just let the advisor take the £3k from the pension. It is the equivalent of paying them £2,400 net (£1,800 for HRT) instead of £3,000 from the building society account.
2boi wrote:Wow I can't believe how long this dicusssion has gone on. It is better to pay any fees from the SIPP rather than your savings. If you can't grasp that you shouldn't be running a SIPP. It's so obvious I'm not going to argue it.
dealtn wrote:2boi wrote:Wow I can't believe how long this dicusssion has gone on. It is better to pay any fees from the SIPP rather than your savings. If you can't grasp that you shouldn't be running a SIPP. It's so obvious I'm not going to argue it.
Lasted as long as 4 days.
Yet, your contribution comes 77 days later to point that out!
